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Camaro V8 LS3 / L99 Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons Bolt-Ons | Intakes | Exhaust

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Old 03-29-2013, 06:13 PM   #1
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Learned something about ARH headers today

I just received my ARH 1 7/8" diameter long tube headers with high flow cats from Juiced Motorsports at an amazing price. I was torn on the fence between ARH and Kooks. These things are a work of art. Anyway I measured the inside diameter of the header and it wasn't 1 7/8" it measured 1 13/16". So I thought they mistakingly sent me 1 3/4" headers so I called up ARH and spoke to a very nice guy named mike and he said that the primaries are measured from the outside and not the inside. It's the outside diamter thats 1 7/8". I felt relieved because I am ready to install tonight and I thought that I had the wrong ones. Actually Mike said that they don't even manufacture the 1 3/4" anymore. I am not saying all header manufacturer's measure there primaries this way just ARH. I learned something new. Anybody who is on the fence give Jason a call at Juiced Motorsports and he will take care of you.

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Old 03-29-2013, 07:58 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by ronniels3 View Post
I just received my ARH 1 7/8" diameter long tube headers with high flow cats from Juiced Motorsports at an amazing price. I was torn on the fence between ARH and Kooks. These things are a work of art. Anyway I measured the inside diameter of the header and it wasn't 1 7/8" it measured 1 13/16". So I thought they mistakingly sent me 1 3/4" headers so I called up ARH and spoke to a very nice guy named mike and he said that the primaries are measured from the outside and not the inside. It's the outside diamter thats 1 7/8". I felt relieved because I am ready to install tonight and I thought that I had the wrong ones. Actually Mike said that they don't even manufacture the 1 3/4" anymore. I am not saying all header manufacturer's measure there primaries this way just ARH. I learned something new. Anybody who is on the fence give Jason a call at Juiced Motorsports and he will take care of you.

Thanks

Ronnie
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Out of curiosity did anyone else know this?
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:03 PM   #3
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This is standard in the industry or any industry dealing with steel tubing. All tubing is measured and sold by O.D. (outer diameter.) Pipe, however is measured by I.D. (inner diameter.)
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:07 PM   #4
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Well OBX was criticized because the inside diameter didn't measure exactly 1-7/8ths. So I wonder how this will be taken. And considering there was a dyno that showed the hp/tq gains from the different size headers, I wonder how this info will affect that. I mean gains are gains, and a great product is still a great product. But I'm curious to know if others knew this info. And whether or not it is perceived as deceitful.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:18 PM   #5
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It's not deceitful at all. Headers with 1 7/8" primaries will measure a touch over 1 3/4" on the inside if they are 16 gauge tube (~.059" wall thickness). That is how tubing is measure and produced. It's not the header companies being cheap or using cheap steel, that is just how tubing is measured. ANY 1 7/8" header is going to measure smaller on the inner diameter ( by twice the wall thickness). A 2" header is going to measure a touch over 1 7/8" on the inside assuming they are 16ga material.

Poop pipe (think plumbing/home depot/lowes) is measured on the inside. So 2 inch pipe measures 2 inches on the inside and twice the wall thickness on the outside. But you don't want headers made out of poop pipe! Lol

No lying, no deceit, just how tube is measured.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:28 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlaqWhole View Post
Well OBX was criticized because the inside diameter didn't measure exactly 1-7/8ths. So I wonder how this will be taken. And considering there was a dyno that showed the hp/tq gains from the different size headers, I wonder how this info will affect that. I mean gains are gains, and a great product is still a great product. But I'm curious to know if others knew this info. And whether or not it is perceived as deceitful.
I do remember that post. They were just a 1/16th shy from 1 7/8".
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC-V View Post
It's not deceitful at all. Headers with 1 7/8" primaries will measure a touch over 1 3/4" on the inside if they are 16 gauge tube (~.059" wall thickness). That is how tubing is measure and produced. It's not the header companies being cheap or using cheap steel, that is just how tubing is measured. ANY 1 7/8" header is going to measure smaller on the inner diameter ( by twice the wall thickness). A 2" header is going to measure a touch over 1 7/8" on the inside assuming they are 16ga material.

Poop pipe (think plumbing/home depot/lowes) is measured on the inside. So 2 inch pipe measures 2 inches on the inside and twice the wall thickness on the outside. But you don't want headers made out of poop pipe! Lol

No lying, no deceit, just how tube is measured.

Don't get me wrong, I wasn't saying that they are deceitful. I was just mentioning the point that there was a thread some time ago where OBX was compared to another brand and criticized because the measurements weren't 1-7/8ths. So I was wondering if other people would still consider it deceitful now that we know the higher end brands are doing the same thing. And BTW, I think the companies should make it clear that the measurements are taken from the outside...since apparently it isn't well known info. I
m personally not making any judgmental comments because like I said, gains are gains, and they're still great products.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:42 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronniels3 View Post
I just received my ARH 1 7/8" diameter long tube headers with high flow cats from Juiced Motorsports at an amazing price. I was torn on the fence between ARH and Kooks. These things are a work of art. Anyway I measured the inside diameter of the header and it wasn't 1 7/8" it measured 1 13/16". So I thought they mistakingly sent me 1 3/4" headers so I called up ARH and spoke to a very nice guy named mike and he said that the primaries are measured from the outside and not the inside. It's the outside diamter thats 1 7/8". I felt relieved because I am ready to install tonight and I thought that I had the wrong ones. Actually Mike said that they don't even manufacture the 1 3/4" anymore. I am not saying all header manufacturer's measure there primaries this way just ARH. I learned something new. Anybody who is on the fence give Jason a call at Juiced Motorsports and he will take care of you.

Thanks

Ronnie
954-325-7722
I also learned the following about the major brands of headers.

Kooks = 18 gauge
ARH = 16 gauge
SW = 16 gauge
DT = 16 gauge
TS = 14 gauge
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:42 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronniels3 View Post
I do remember that post. They were just a 1/16th shy from 1 7/8".
Yea, I just found that thread. But anyway, how are your headers?! Did you get them installed yet?!
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:52 PM   #10
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Yea, I just found that thread. But anyway, how are your headers?! Did you get them installed yet?!
Not yet I am going to Kew West in the morning for spring break and I will install them Monday night. I am pretty excited. I am about to order a Night Fury Cam Shaft real soon.
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Old 03-29-2013, 08:54 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by NC-V View Post
It's not deceitful at all. Headers with 1 7/8" primaries will measure a touch over 1 3/4" on the inside if they are 16 gauge tube (~.059" wall thickness). That is how tubing is measure and produced. It's not the header companies being cheap or using cheap steel, that is just how tubing is measured. ANY 1 7/8" header is going to measure smaller on the inner diameter ( by twice the wall thickness). A 2" header is going to measure a touch over 1 7/8" on the inside assuming they are 16ga material.

Poop pipe (think plumbing/home depot/lowes) is measured on the inside. So 2 inch pipe measures 2 inches on the inside and twice the wall thickness on the outside. But you don't want headers made out of poop pipe! Lol

No lying, no deceit, just how tube is measured.
So lets say you have 1 7/8" outside diameter headers in various gauges. They will measure all different sizes depending on gauge thickness. Where 18 gauge will have a greater inside diameter then say 14 gauge.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:33 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by ronniels3 View Post
I also learned the following about the major brands of headers.

Kooks = 18 gauge
ARH = 16 gauge
SW = 16 gauge
DT = 16 gauge
TS = 14 gauge
TS 409 headers were 14 gauge. The new 304 ones are 16 gauge, at least the 2" ones I received were.
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Old 03-29-2013, 09:54 PM   #13
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TS 409 headers were 14 gauge. The new 304 ones are 16 gauge, at least the 2" ones I received were.
What do those measuere on the inside?
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronniels3 View Post
So lets say you have 1 7/8" outside diameter headers in various gauges. They will measure all different sizes depending on gauge thickness. Where 18 gauge will have a greater inside diameter then say 14 gauge.
That is correct. 16 gauge measures just under .060" so depending on production tolerances the inner diameter would measure 1.875" - (2*.060)= roughly 1.755"
18 gauge would be slightly larger inside and 14 would be smaller inside.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:12 PM   #15
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That is correct. 16 gauge measures just under .060" so depending on production tolerances the inner diameter would measure 1.875" - (2*.060)= roughly 1.755"
18 gauge would be slightly larger inside and 14 would be smaller inside.
Thank you for the confirmation. Seems like the nominal gauge for headers are 16 ga.
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Old 03-29-2013, 11:57 PM   #16
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shocking that kooks actually has better materials....


just putting this in there for the obx crusader
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:08 AM   #17
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Looks like a comparo should be done between kooks and arh just throwing wood on the flames lol jk
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Old 03-30-2013, 04:41 AM   #18
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I've been around headers since I was 9 years old racing 3 wheelers. Headers are measured o.d.
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:05 AM   #19
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shocking that kooks actually has better materials....


just putting this in there for the obx crusader
Kooks has better materials than what? They have the thinnest gauge wall thats all.
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Old 03-30-2013, 08:59 AM   #20
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there's difference's in stainless and thicknesses .18 gauge 304 stainless would be one of the best as far as materials being used.especially in a turbo application
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Old 03-30-2013, 01:08 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by ronniels3 View Post
Kooks has better materials than what? They have the thinnest gauge wall thats all.
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there's difference's in stainless and thicknesses .18 gauge 304 stainless would be one of the best as far as materials being used.especially in a turbo application
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:05 PM   #22
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there's difference's in stainless and thicknesses .18 gauge 304 stainless would be one of the best as far as materials being used.especially in a turbo application
Thinner wall tubing = larger id.
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Old 03-30-2013, 02:14 PM   #23
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Kooks has better materials than what? They have the thinnest gauge wall thats all.
I guess the Kooks disciple will now argue that less material and a thinner wall is better...figures.
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Old 03-30-2013, 06:13 PM   #24
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I guess the Kooks disciple will now argue that less material and a thinner wall is better...figures.
should have figured obx crusader wouldnt understand
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Old 03-30-2013, 07:16 PM   #25
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should have figured obx crusader wouldnt understand
Well, I didn't mean to hurt your feelings. I was just stating a couple of facts.
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