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Old 12-28-2011, 07:05 PM   #76
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Wheels alone don't affect it...these specs are as per Tire Rack: Michelin- http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ilot+Sport+PS2

Goodyear- http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....upercar+G%3A+2
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:07 PM   #77
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And a 1" (diameter) drop lowers cg, as well...

"Buildable" by GM? Not quickly, but do-able, depending on bumper height for crash-test purposes...
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:11 PM   #78
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I wish GM would put together a 2015 Camaro Z/28 with a 375hp TT V-6 with a weight about 3500lbs solid rear setup with 3.90 gears and a PG tranny.... and don't forget the 8Track..




I'm being very serious... I don't want Lumbar support, 8-way adjustable power seating, Navigation, Leather/Suede, 9 speaker radio system... in other words I would forego comfort for a B*llBusting Reasonably priced Camaro.... Why does it have to compete with Ford.... Why can't it be it's own Competition, be different...
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:20 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Wheels alone don't affect it...these specs are as per Tire Rack: Michelin- http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....ilot+Sport+PS2

Goodyear- http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires....upercar+G%3A+2
Yes, but note that the 19" tire is a Porche-specific design...they could have meddled with things to achieve that distortion. And tire-rack makes a good point: There's no industry standard to measuring tread-width, so some companies just don't publish it.

Annnnnyways....

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And a 1" (diameter) drop lowers cg, as well...
I was reading "cg" as that of the wheels themselves (since their weight does not effect the sprung mass of the vehicle)...you seem to be talking about the car's cg?
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:41 PM   #80
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
Yes, but note that the 19" tire is a Porche-specific design...they could have meddled with things to achieve that distortion. And tire-rack makes a good point: There's no industry standard to measuring tread-width, so some companies just don't publish it.

Annnnnyways....


I was reading "cg" as that of the wheels themselves (since their weight does not effect the sprung mass of the vehicle)...you seem to be talking about the car's cg?
Exactly, lowering the CoG for the entire car does wonders for handling IMHO, that's why I pointed out that the '67-'69 Z/28 sat almost two inches lower with 15" wheels than the majority of Camaros did with 14" wheels.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:44 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by mr02Z/28 View Post
I wish GM would put together a 2015 Camaro Z/28 with a 375hp TT V-6 with a weight about 3500lbs solid rear setup with 3.90 gears and a PG tranny.... and don't forget the 8Track..




I'm being very serious... I don't want Lumbar support, 8-way adjustable power seating, Navigation, Leather/Suede, 9 speaker radio system... in other words I would forego comfort for a B*llBusting Reasonably priced Camaro.... Why does it have to compete with Ford.... Why can't it be it's own Competition, be different...
It's already been discussed MANY times on these forums, the TT V-6 would weigh the same as or more than a V-8 SBC and produce less HP. The majority of the Z/28 afficianados on these forums have said no to V6 and yes to V8.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:45 PM   #82
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so what..... I'm saying Yes-------- I want a TT V-6
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:47 PM   #83
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so what..... I'm saying Yes-------- I want a TT V-6
So what........you've already been outvoted by about 99 to 1, very few others do!!
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:49 PM   #84
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Exactly, lowering the CoG for the entire car does wonders for handling IMHO, that's why I pointed out that the '67-'69 Z/28 sat almost two inches lower with 15" wheels than the majority of Camaros did with 14" wheels.
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Ah...I follow now. I wasn't on the same page. But now I am - and I agree!!

If I go any further this will turn into a 6th gen discussion, so I'll stop there.
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:52 PM   #85
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Ah...I follow now. I wasn't on the same page. But now I am - and I agree!!

If I go any further this will turn into a 6th gen discussion, so I'll stop there.
Well gee, there is plenty of 6th gen discussion on one of those "other" sites!!
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:57 PM   #86
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Well gee, there is plenty of 6th gen discussion on one of those "other" sites!!
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There's plenty here, too...I was trying to be thoughtful and not intrude too much on this thread with 6th gen talk...
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:01 PM   #87
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Whatever wheel size they use, I can pretty much gaurentee you that the overall diameter will be the same as it is on other Camaros. Any lowering that they do (if they do any) will be in the suspension itself, not the wheel & tire.

Why? Well, they'd have to do suspension work if they're building the Z28 we want them to. So since they're already in there mucking around with the spring rates and damping ratio, it would barely cost them anything to spec it for a lower ride height.

Assuming of course that they plan on lowering the ride height. Lowering it affects not only the handling, but also how steep of a curb or driveway you can go up. It also requires a re-do of the crash tests. Will it change these things my much? No. But GM would need to spend the time and money proving that it won't change things by much if they make it ride lower than the ZL1. Just a lotta hassle for not much gain if you ask me.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:12 PM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mr02Z/28 View Post
I wish GM would put together a 2015 Camaro Z/28 with a 375hp TT V-6 with a weight about 3500lbs solid rear setup with 3.90 gears and a PG tranny.... and don't forget the 8Track..




I'm being very serious... I don't want Lumbar support, 8-way adjustable power seating, Navigation, Leather/Suede, 9 speaker radio system... in other words I would forego comfort for a B*llBusting Reasonably priced Camaro.... Why does it have to compete with Ford.... Why can't it be it's own Competition, be different...
If GM does do a Z28, it will be one that they can expect to sell by the thousands, not hundreds.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:26 PM   #89
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Honestly.... I would luv to see GM/Chevy pull a wicked move... Build/sell a Z/28, drop a LS motor in it with around 375hp and about 400lbs less weight over current Camaro... doesn't need every option available, strictly a street driver with the capabilities for very good performance that doesn't cost over $30,000......I guess I'm dreaming....
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:31 PM   #90
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so what..... I'm saying Yes-------- I want a TT V-6
or or
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:34 PM   #91
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my opinion, I like the ZL1 but I think the price/MSRP is going to discourage alot of folks... Chevy/GM needs to build a car that will continue what the 5th Gen has done.... they atrracted buyers and now they need to build and continue the Legacy...
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:43 PM   #92
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Honestly.... I would luv to see GM/Chevy pull a wicked move... Build/sell a Z/28, drop a LS motor in it with around 375hp and about 400lbs less weight over current Camaro... doesn't need every option available, strictly a street driver with the capabilities for very good performance that doesn't cost over $30,000......I guess I'm dreaming....
Problem is, removing content increases cost ... especially when you have to design & validate a new component that does the same thing as the existing one (for example, fixed or manually adjustable seats vs power seats). And unless you're gutting the interior there simply isn't 400 lbs available to pull out while having a car that still has mass market appeal. If there were, GM would have cut it before the car went into production.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:50 PM   #93
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my opinion, I like the ZL1 but I think the price/MSRP is going to discourage alot of folks... Chevy/GM needs to build a car that will continue what the 5th Gen has done.... they atrracted buyers and now they need to build and continue the Legacy...
What you are describing is not a Z28. Think of it this way a Z28 is to Camaro what the Z06 is to the Corvette.
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Old 12-28-2011, 08:59 PM   #94
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Yes, but note that the 19" tire is a Porche-specific design...they could have meddled with things to achieve that distortion. And tire-rack makes a good point: There's no industry standard to measuring tread-width, so some companies just don't publish it.

Annnnnyways....


I was reading "cg" as that of the wheels themselves (since their weight does not effect the sprung mass of the vehicle)...you seem to be talking about the car's cg?
What you were describing is probably more of a centrifical effect. The weight of the wheel is pushing further outward. Again not optimum.
What people forget is that tires can weigh nearly as much as wheels. In other words a lot of thought needs to happen for the best results.

I believe the reason the 19" wheel is wider has to do more with the aspect ratio causing a section width variation. I have concerns that the 12.2" width may rub?
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:04 PM   #95
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What you were describing is probably more of a centrifical effect. The weight of the wheel is pushing further outward. Again not optimum.
What people forget is that tires can weigh nearly as much as wheels. In other words a lot of thought needs to happen for the best results.

I believe the reason the 19" wheel is wider has to do more with the aspect ratio causing a section width variation. I have concerns that the 12.2" width may rub?
I just wasn't reading what everyone else was writing.

I got lost in the references.

I completely agree with what you're all saying about smaller wheels (and thus tires) being better. I would lobby for 18" wheels on the Camaro if I wasn't so enamored with the "perfect" look the 20s give it.
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:28 AM   #96
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Whatever wheel size they use, I can pretty much gaurentee you that the overall diameter will be the same as it is on other Camaros. Any lowering that they do (if they do any) will be in the suspension itself, not the wheel & tire.

Why? Well, they'd have to do suspension work if they're building the Z28 we want them to. So since they're already in there mucking around with the spring rates and damping ratio, it would barely cost them anything to spec it for a lower ride height.

Assuming of course that they plan on lowering the ride height. Lowering it affects not only the handling, but also how steep of a curb or driveway you can go up. It also requires a re-do of the crash tests. Will it change these things my much? No. But GM would need to spend the time and money proving that it won't change things by much if they make it ride lower than the ZL1. Just a lotta hassle for not much gain if you ask me.
Factors to consider, going from 28+" diameter 20s to 26" 19s, include those you mention PLUS:

1) Certification/validation of the wheels and tires
2) Electronic re-do for ABS and StabiliTrak/Traction Control/PTM
3) Approach/departure angles, as mentioned
4) Ground clearance
5) Crash-testing...although here's an "opportunity": By moving the crash bar behind the front bumper UP an inch or so, you necessitate a new front facia, which offers an opportunity to get "creative". A slightly narrower upper grille opening would require a fresh grille design (near-flush, for better aero?) without re-doing headlites/signals, while a revised lower grille could also be made more flush...with ducting openings for front brake cooling ducts (offered separately through GMPP).

It's about time for Pedders Pete to share his experiences with "square" 305-19s on the Pedders Camaro, and their everyday application in daily driver circumstances...

As I mentioned earlier, the greatest knock against "shorter" 19s? LOOKS. You can't have the thing lookin' like an East L.A. lowrider on 13s...
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:18 AM   #97
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Honestly.... I would luv to see GM/Chevy pull a wicked move... Build/sell a Z/28, drop a LS motor in it with around 375hp and about 400lbs less weight over current Camaro... doesn't need every option available, strictly a street driver with the capabilities for very good performance that doesn't cost over $30,000......I guess I'm dreaming....
Dreaming on price? Never say "never", but...

Some years ago, I was given a GMC SEMA concept vehicle to run in the One Lap of America...a tasty lil treat known internally as "Syclone 2". It was a former Milford mule used in the development of electronic 4WD, based on a Sonoma Short Box Regular Cab pickup. The powerplant was a 4.5L all-aluminum V6 built to then-Busch Grand National specs, normally aspirated (which stretched the name association!) with a Holley 750 double-pumper and a mechanical roller cam. 5-speed manual with 3.73s. Chipped back to 7,000 rpm redline (unchipped=9,500!), it STILL made 375hp...in a 3600lb. mini-truck...with selectable 4WD. Mid-range torque was its forte'. Won Pickup/SUV Class with it.

So I understand, CLEARLY, the appeal of what you speak of...but NOT as a ZEE/28. Z/36, maybe?
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=176436
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Old 12-29-2011, 12:34 PM   #98
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Too late; by then I expect the body design will change and I won't like the vehicle anymore. I've already seen the future from what's coming in 2012. However, still interesting to see the next GM move in response to the 2013 Mustang.
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:01 PM   #99
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Too late; by then I expect the body design will change and I won't like the vehicle anymore. I've already seen the future from what's coming in 2012. However, still interesting to see the next GM move in response to the 2013 Mustang.
The future? Do tell!
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Old 12-29-2011, 04:33 PM   #100
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Silly question, but...anyone predict around what time frame in near or distant future we might get a glimpse of what the next body style would be like? Many of you guys have followed the Gen5 way back prior to the release of the Gen 5 body, and I wonder how long prior to official pics the body was seen and photographed by spy shots.
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