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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 12-29-2011, 05:54 PM   #101
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I suspect the test mules for the driveline etc. will wear ATS clothing...so, in a way, the Gen-6 Camaro will "hide in plain sight"...

As for a definitive pic, spy'd or otherwise...
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Old 12-29-2011, 09:55 PM   #102
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Silly question, but...anyone predict around what time frame in near or distant future we might get a glimpse of what the next body style would be like? Many of you guys have followed the Gen5 way back prior to the release of the Gen 5 body, and I wonder how long prior to official pics the body was seen and photographed by spy shots.
I'd expect to see some spyshots of heavily camo'd 6th gens about a year and a half before the car is released.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:34 PM   #103
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I'd expect to see some spyshots of heavily camo'd 6th gens about a year and a half before the car is released.
Thanks DG, anyone care to speculate when this time may come about? When at the earliest should we see some signs of the Z-28 reincarnation, in artist conception or early spy shot form? Food for thought, and discussion. I wan't one more Z-28 before I pass on, with the goods of today's technology....while it's still semi-affordable.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:49 PM   #104
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Thanks DG, anyone care to speculate when this time may come about? When at the earliest should we see some signs of the Z-28 reincarnation, in artist conception or early spy shot form? Food for thought, and discussion. I wan't one more Z-28 before I pass on, with the goods of today's technology....while it's still semi-affordable.
We may have already seen spyshots of the Z28, and we may have seen a concept car from GM representing the Z28. And for all we know, there could be a number of test cars running around as we speak. To the average person (or even the enthusiast), it might just look like a modified Camaro ... and there's tons of those around the US. So if GM doesn't slap camo on it, we probably wouldn't even notice.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:58 PM   #105
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We may have already seen spyshots of the Z28, and we may have seen a concept car from GM representing the Z28. And for all we know, there could be a number of test cars running around as we speak. To the average person (or even the enthusiast), it might just look like a modified Camaro ... and there's tons of those around the US. So if GM doesn't slap camo on it, we probably wouldn't even notice.
Interesting... we'll have to be more observant! Good points!
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:31 PM   #106
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We may have already seen spyshots of the Z28, and we may have seen a concept car from GM representing the Z28. And for all we know, there could be a number of test cars running around as we speak. To the average person (or even the enthusiast), it might just look like a modified Camaro ... and there's tons of those around the US. So if GM doesn't slap camo on it, we probably wouldn't even notice.
Moral to the story; The best place to hide something is in plain sight....?
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Old 12-30-2011, 01:19 AM   #107
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We may have already seen spyshots of the Z28, and we may have seen a concept car from GM representing the Z28. And for all we know, there could be a number of test cars running around as we speak. To the average person (or even the enthusiast), it might just look like a modified Camaro ... and there's tons of those around the US. So if GM doesn't slap camo on it, we probably wouldn't even notice.
To clarify what I meant, we've got the possible Z28 spyshot (also known as the 'ZL1 Track Pack')


Then there are the two different concept cars that GM showed off which may or may not have been Z28 previews. The SSX:


and the 1LE from this year:



And of course ... the possible 'hiding in plain sight' mules:

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Old 12-30-2011, 10:35 AM   #108
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All valid points, DG.

Look for a MICHIGAN Manufacturer's Plate...on something that looks a lil bit "different"...perhaps hot-testing in the Desert SouthWest...perhaps cruisin' the urban jungle that is Metro Detroit...perhaps right down the street from YOU...

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Old 12-30-2011, 12:02 PM   #109
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BTW, has anyone else noticed how this year's 1LE, with the substitution/addition of Black Wheels and a couple o' hash marks, looks eerily similar to SEMA '08's COPO LS7 version...?!

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows...e/viewall.html
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Old 12-30-2011, 11:36 PM   #110
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BTW, has anyone else noticed how this year's 1LE, with the substitution/addition of Black Wheels and a couple o' hash marks, looks eerily similar to SEMA '08's COPO LS7 version...?!

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows...e/viewall.html
LS7 concept got a lot of good reviews. And they listen.

It's almost as if they 1LE is them asking "You sure?"
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Old 12-31-2011, 11:44 AM   #111
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Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
BTW, has anyone else noticed how this year's 1LE, with the substitution/addition of Black Wheels and a couple o' hash marks, looks eerily similar to SEMA '08's COPO LS7 version...?!

http://www.motortrend.com/auto_shows...e/viewall.html
Now that you mention it, did the hood ever get popped on the 1LE?
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:06 PM   #112
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The Z28 wont be arriving until the 6th Gen I bet. And it will be a HUGE blow to the new 6th Gen mustang because the new Camaro will be launching with a new Z28 model plus lighter and everything.
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Old 12-31-2011, 04:51 PM   #113
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Through the grapevine we've heard 150 maybe 200 lbs lighter. Not so much. If I remember correctly a 100 lbs savings equals 1/10 in the 1/4 mile. HP is the key.
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Old 12-31-2011, 06:30 PM   #114
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Through the grapevine we've heard 150 maybe 200 lbs lighter. Not so much. If I remember correctly a 100 lbs savings equals 1/10 in the 1/4 mile. HP is the key.
I think that any weight savings in the 6th gen. will be a good thing, 150-200 lbs. is a good start, I'd like to see more in the 300-400 lbs. range vs the 5th gen. weight (but I don't expect it!).
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Old 12-31-2011, 09:02 PM   #115
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Through the grapevine we've heard 150 maybe 200 lbs lighter. Not so much. If I remember correctly a 100 lbs savings equals 1/10 in the 1/4 mile. HP is the key.
Well so far we dont know anything about how much weight it is going to save who knows.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:00 AM   #116
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LS7 concept got a lot of good reviews. And they listen.
Trust us old guys. We've been there, done that, and bought the T shirt.
It's almost as if they 1LE is them asking "You sure?"
Trust us old guy's, we've been there, done that, and bought the T shirt. Thanks for listening Chevy. We are sure, no doubt.
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The Z28 wont be arriving until the 6th Gen I bet. And it will be a HUGE blow to the new 6th Gen mustang because the new Camaro will be launching with a new Z28 model plus lighter and everything.
Perhaps. But the jury is still out on that verdict. I'm more inline with DG3's thoughts.
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Through the grapevine we've heard 150 maybe 200 lbs lighter. Not so much. If I remember correctly a 100 lbs savings equals 1/10 in the 1/4 mile. HP is the key.
That's correct chance...every 100 lbs. is about one tenth a second.
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Old 01-01-2012, 10:03 AM   #117
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Well so far we dont know anything about how much weight it is going to save who knows.
Not true. We have knowledge of the Caddie platform it's based on.
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Old 01-01-2012, 12:04 PM   #118
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Not true. We have knowledge of the Caddie platform it's based on.
We don't have anything solid on that platform though.
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:39 PM   #119
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Through the grapevine we've heard 150 maybe 200 lbs lighter. Not so much. If I remember correctly a 100 lbs savings equals 1/10 in the 1/4 mile. HP is the key.
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I think that any weight savings in the 6th gen. will be a good thing, 150-200 lbs. is a good start, I'd like to see more in the 300-400 lbs. range vs the 5th gen. weight (but I don't expect it!).
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Well so far we dont know anything about how much weight it is going to save who knows.
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Trust us old guy's, we've been there, done that, and bought the T shirt. Thanks for listening Chevy. We are sure, no doubt.

Perhaps. But the jury is still out on that verdict. I'm more inline with DG3's thoughts.

That's correct chance...every 100 lbs. is about one tenth a second.
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Not true. We have knowledge of the Caddie platform it's based on.
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We don't have anything solid on that platform though.
fwiw, gentlemen....I wanted to share some work/findings I did to estimate the weight of coupes and sedans built off of an identical Alpha architecture...

Starting here, Motortrend recorded a quote previewing the weight range the Cadillac ATS should be in, as well as the engine options for the car at initial release:

"Leone would only say that it’s “several hundred pounds lighter than competitors like the 3-series,” and that the front/rear weight distribution would be an ideal 50/50"

Below is the size of the 3-series BMW coupe/ Chevy Camaro:

Length: 181.9 / 190.4
Width: 70.2 / 75.5
Height: 54.9 / 54.2

I still maintain for its size and segment, the 5th generation Camaro is competitive in terms of weight, but you can clearly see where much of the weight is in the car when comparing these two....it's much bigger! I mean, heck - it's even wider than the Corvette!

I believe the ATS/6th gen would need to be the size of the 3-series or smaller to achieve these weight numbers. And I think one of the tricks they'll use to achieve this weight advantage in the base models is by using their potent 4 cylinders vs the German's inline or V6s.

Then I did some math based on similarly-equipped cars to form an educated guess on how each configuration will add weight to the car.

In order of engine type, weight, then reasoning:



I4: 190hp / ~3162lbs
(based off GM comment and BMW 328i curb weight)

T4: 270hp / ~3292lbs
(based off difference between Cobalt SS Turbo vs Cobalt LT minus performance goodies like Brembo brakes)

V6: 320hp / ~3992lbs
(based off difference between genesis T4 vs V6 models)

V8: 460hp / ~3511lbs
(based off difference between Camaro V6 v V8 models)

TV8: 580hp / ~3671lbs
(based off Camaro ZL1 v SS minus 100lbs weight management; ie turbo vs super & Carbon Fiber/Aluminum bits)


The base model is as light as a Corvette, then, while the power-to-weight ratio of the entry V8 would be that of the current Corvette LT...meaning a 0-60 of 4, and a quarter mile time of 12.4.

The hypothetical Turbocharged V8 would have the power-to-weight of the current Z06...meaning an easy 3.7 to 60, and 11.6 quarter mile. Impressive for sure!!

These are GUESSES....AND they're very ambitious (that high level configuration may not even be possible without turning the car into a pretzel)...but I don't feel they're "out in left field", per say. Assuming, of course, the "several hundred pounds" quote is accurate.

fwiw...I had fun crunching these numbers.
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Old 01-01-2012, 01:48 PM   #120
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There have already been statements from GM about engine choices on the new Cadillac ATS including an I4, V6 and V8. It is due to be unveiled at the Detroit Auto Show later this month, so more details should be coming out then or soon after, perhaps even a real idea of actual weight.
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Old 01-01-2012, 06:20 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by Dragoneye View Post
fwiw, gentlemen....I wanted to share some work/findings I did to estimate the weight of coupes and sedans built off of an identical Alpha architecture...

Starting here, Motortrend recorded a quote previewing the weight range the Cadillac ATS should be in, as well as the engine options for the car at initial release:

"Leone would only say that it’s “several hundred pounds lighter than competitors like the 3-series,” and that the front/rear weight distribution would be an ideal 50/50"

Below is the size of the 3-series BMW coupe/ Chevy Camaro:

Length: 181.9 / 190.4
Width: 70.2 / 75.5
Height: 54.9 / 54.2

I still maintain for its size and segment, the 5th generation Camaro is competitive in terms of weight, but you can clearly see where much of the weight is in the car when comparing these two....it's much bigger! I mean, heck - it's even wider than the Corvette!

I believe the ATS/6th gen would need to be the size of the 3-series or smaller to achieve these weight numbers. And I think one of the tricks they'll use to achieve this weight advantage in the base models is by using their potent 4 cylinders vs the German's inline or V6s.

Then I did some math based on similarly-equipped cars to form an educated guess on how each configuration will add weight to the car.

In order of engine type, weight, then reasoning:



I4: 190hp / ~3162lbs
(based off GM comment and BMW 328i curb weight)

T4: 270hp / ~3292lbs
(based off difference between Cobalt SS Turbo vs Cobalt LT minus performance goodies like Brembo brakes)

V6: 320hp / ~3392lbs
(based off difference between genesis T4 vs V6 models)

V8: 460hp / ~3511lbs
(based off difference between Camaro V6 v V8 models)

TV8: 580hp / ~3671lbs
(based off Camaro ZL1 v SS minus 100lbs weight management; ie turbo vs super & Carbon Fiber/Aluminum bits)


The base model is as light as a Corvette, then, while the power-to-weight ratio of the entry V8 would be that of the current Corvette LT...meaning a 0-60 of 4, and a quarter mile time of 12.4.

The hypothetical Turbocharged V8 would have the power-to-weight of the current Z06...meaning an easy 3.7 to 60, and 11.6 quarter mile. Impressive for sure!!

These are GUESSES....AND they're very ambitious (that high level configuration may not even be possible without turning the car into a pretzel)...but I don't feel they're "out in left field", per say. Assuming, of course, the "several hundred pounds" quote is accurate.

fwiw...I had fun crunching these numbers.
Man all those numbers look great ,except one the 320 hr V6 weight of 3992. there is one thing, I believe that by the next generation 6, in 2015 there will not be a ZL1, instead We will finally see a Z28 .
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Old 01-01-2012, 07:38 PM   #122
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Old guys perspective here from hands on experience. 100 pounds reduction roughly equates to -.10 reduction in quarter mile time. Check the LS6 Chevelle 1970 model. It was around the same weight as todays Camaro ZL1. As previously mentioned before in other posts, why was it not so widely discussed or worried about back then regarding curb weight? Well, it was, but it was more of a commen sense issue, and we couldn't have real time contact with manufacturers, nor was that thought even on the table about why can't GM do this or that...everyone knew about shedding weight <or those in the know knew> but there wasn't an internet to openly discuss such matters like today. It was an understanding, Mopars weighed X amount, Ford's weighed X amount, GM products weighed X amount, pick your poison based on what your preference was and deal with it. Crying? There is no crying in high performance competition. Crying about weight....there was no crying back then...today most need a box of Kleenex to handle these issues..the internet, gotta have it know, instant gratifications, and a sense of entitlement to get ones desired outcome takes it all to a new level. But...I try to stay on the learning curve, sometimes I struggle, but resistance is futile...now where is 2.99 at? LOL....... Let the Fat Lady sing....however much she weighs, and we will still clap at the end of the performance...because there is no crying in high performance competition....LOL...
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Old 01-01-2012, 08:11 PM   #123
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this is what i would like to see for the z/28 z/34 or ZRS (new name i just made up) in a gm vehicle ATS-C Camaro and Corvette. these numbers are possible and the powertrain has exisited for like 5 years now. a GM car with theses numbers and a 40-50k price tag will sell
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:10 PM   #124
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We don't have anything solid on that platform though.
I know there are no exact numbers as its not even out yet, however wasn't it mentioned on the forum not to expect more than 150-200 lbs reduction in weight for the 6th Gen?
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Old 01-01-2012, 09:13 PM   #125
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V6 is a nice piece of manufacturing. For me, not much so. It's has gobs of potential down the road, so does a 4 cylinder twin turbo. But, the heyday of modern high performance cars, of the culture back in the day to now, relied on the mighty V8. Until that time when the death of that icon occurs, I shall only prescribe to that platform of proplusion for any high performance car from Detriot<Oshawa>. That's the basis for our heritage, if it doesn't need to be fixed, don't work on it. Long live the V8, because no other motor can make such a sweet sound, and deliver so much HP on N/A as that reciprocating mass can. When the V6 is mandated upon us, so be it. Until then long live the V8.
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