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Old 10-30-2007, 10:24 AM   #1
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engine info on LLN

found this on left lane and thought it was an interesting read




10/30/07, 09:12am, EDT


With so much incorrect information out there about GM's future LS motors, we though it would be a good time to query our sources and get the real deal. From the Cadillac CTS-V to the Corvette ZR1, we take a look at the LSA, LS7, LS8, LST, and LS9.


LS7

This is, of course, the current 7.0-liter, naturally aspirated motor in the Z06. It's handbuilt at GM's Wixom performance center and is very expensive to make. Too expensive with the LS9 motor coming. While there will be several months where the LS7 and LS9 will be built at Wixom, the LS7 will eventually die, probably sometime between late-2009 or mid-2010.

Several publications have repeatedly insisted the new CTS-V will be powered by the LS7, but this is completely false. GM cannot spend engineering dollars on a CTS-V to start with the LS7, then 12 to 18 months later, switch motors after the LS7 is discontinued. Rather, the super Caddy will feature an all-new powerplant.

LSA

The LSA will find its way under the hood of the 2009 Cadillac CTS-V. The LSA is a 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold.

Preliminary specs have it over 500 horsepower with a choice of manual or automatic transmissions. The CTS-V will start production in September of 2008 with this motor. Look for around 6000 to 8000 units annually.

Original plans also had the LSA going into an Escalade V-series truck. However justifying the development cost — not to mention CAFE considerations — might put possibility of such a truck in jeporady. At present, it is unclear whether the Escalade-V a truck is still part of the plan.

LS8

This is another 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It also features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. This will be the motor going into the top-end Zeta platform cars. The most premium Camaro, probably called Z28, will get this motor.

That said, original plans had this motor going into a Denali SUV or truck, however, those plans now seem to be canceled. Again, this maybe a result of CAFE.

Some of Holden's vehicles may also get this motor eventually. Initial specs have this motor at 475 to 500 horsepower with a choice of manual or automatic transmissions.

When the LS7 dies, the Z06 will get this motor. Possibly, slightly uptuned from the version the Zeta cars would get. This motor will start production in first or second quarter of 2010.

LST

Yet another 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It also features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. This motor may or may not still be in GM's plans. The original plan was to put it in GM's Heavy Duty trucks.

Delivering in excess of 450 pound-feet of torque, it was set to start in the middle of 2008. However, it now seems this motor may no longer be part of the plan. GM may have decided its diesel offerings were sufficient. It's also possible GM had a hard time justifying the cost of development. Of course, CAFE might have also played a role.

LS9

This is the 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger going into the ZR-1 Corvette. Like all the others, it has an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. Original specs had this motor at 600 horsepower and 550 to 560 pound-feet of torque. It now seems the horsepower rating may have jumped to as much as 650.

If that's true, it would probably be safe to estimate a similar jump in torque to around 600 ft lbs. Sources have stated the LS9 can make 700hp on a test stand. Obviously though, that is without a car attached to the motor. Don't look for any production hp number starting with "seven."

It now appears an auto/paddle shift may also be an option on the ZR-1. This motor will be handbuilt at GM's Wixom performance center. They will only make 1500 to 2000 units a year. Production of the ZR-1 starts in July of 2008.
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:59 AM   #2
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Good find. Did GM confirm the LS8 going into the Zetas or is this speculation?
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:07 AM   #3
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hmmm. Nice find. LS8, huh? not to take anything away from this, but I'm interested in their "sources"...

The only thing that confuses me, is why would GM start production of a new LS engine...when the Gen V's are scheduled for a year later?....
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Old 10-30-2007, 11:54 AM   #4
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I agree with you Dragon, I'd like to know their sources too.
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Old 10-30-2007, 12:13 PM   #5
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Sounds like more of the same speculation reported as fact to me. Basically, all top V8s will be a 6.2 supercharged plant. Not mentioning the Gen V engines, and using words like "will" as in "the most premium Camaro will get this motor" makes me skeptical, but we'll file it away with unconfirmed rumors for now. Interesting stuff.
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Old 10-30-2007, 12:33 PM   #6
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Looks good to me. The only differences I've heard relating to this article, is tha the LSA was going to be the top end motor for the top of the line Camaro. Seems as though they also got the message that the Z28 is going to be top of the line this go around.

They pretty much have all the speculation down to a "T." I was simply unaware that the "LS8" was possibly going to be in the Camaro. Pretty cool if it all pans out.

Good find. I like the info.
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Old 10-30-2007, 03:10 PM   #7
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Really good read but i would like to know their sources
The only thing is to me the LS8 specs sound underpowered. A 6.2 with a supercharger and only 475-500? Anyone else think that.
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Old 10-30-2007, 03:20 PM   #8
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Untuned or maybe it's tuned down since they'll put it in the z06 after the LS7 retires? At least according to this. The Camaro will get an engine before the vette? Something sounds fishy.
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Old 10-30-2007, 04:05 PM   #9
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Yeah if they put it in the Z06 I would think it would have to have more than 475-500 hp. I wouldn't be surprised to see 475 in the top dog Camaro, with somewhere just north of 500 for the Z06
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Old 10-30-2007, 07:14 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mindz View Post
Untuned or maybe it's tuned down since they'll put it in the z06 after the LS7 retires? At least according to this. The Camaro will get an engine before the vette? Something sounds fishy.
It has happened before, the '67 Camaro SS got the 350cid before the Vette.
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:17 PM   #11
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I like what I see, wish they said their sources though.
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Old 10-30-2007, 10:22 PM   #12
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IDK about this article, the LS A, T, 9, all sound like the same exact engine to me just with minor tuning tweaks. There is no mention of gen V or DOHC but maybe one of these could have DOHC, DI? I'd also like to see the sources of this info after jumping the gun on the Z28 being top, though I would not mind it to be


Quote:
Originally Posted by dgraves View Post
The LSA is a 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold.
Also, does anybody know exactly this works?? I know the Ford GT also has this but dont really get how it works.
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:03 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgraves View Post

LS8

This is another 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It also features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. This will be the motor going into the top-end Zeta platform cars. The most premium Camaro, probably called Z28, will get this motor.

That would be so freakin' hot! But all we're doing right now speculating. We'll know for sure in the next couple years. Camaro my sweet,... here I come!
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:27 PM   #14
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Rumor/News:Camaro Engine LS8 +475HP

Dont know how valid this info is but I thought I would share this. Don't think this has been posted.

"LS8…
This is another 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It also features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. This will be the motor going into the top-end Zeta platform cars. The most premium Camaro, probably called Z28, will get this motor.
That said, original plans had this motor going into a Denali SUV or truck, however, those plans now seem to be canceled. Again, this maybe a result of CAFE.
Some of Holden’s vehicles may also get this motor eventually. Initial specs have this motor at 475 to 500 horsepower with a choice of manual or automatic transmissions.
When the LS7 dies, the Z06 will get this motor. Possibly, slightly uptuned from the version the Zeta cars would get. This motor will start production in
first or second quarter of 2010."


I am not getting to excited yet but from what I know and what my friend tells me (Corvette owner) that site has reliable info.

This may be an early leak to what we might find out (its valid) once the "you don't want to miss November" news is posted tomorrow on the Chevy Nation site.

Again, its still a rumor until Chevy/GM announces it.

Source:
http://www.corvetteconti.com/blog/?p=1383#more-1383
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:29 PM   #15
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I don't buy this article at all... a supercharged 6.2L only making 500hp? Please... that engine is EASILY capable of 700hp. Plus, EVERYBODY gets a supercharger??? Eh eh.. to expensive.

Look at the current XLR-V, it features a supercharged 4.4 L version of the Northstar V8, and is certified by the SAE to produce 469 hp (350 kW) and 439 ft·lbf (595 N·m). Your telling me an engine displacing 40% more volume only makes ~7% more power??? Sounds wrong to me.

I'd wager that the LS8 (or whatever you want to call the Sub-ZR1 engine) is going to be a naturally aspirated 6.2L (or smaller) motor making 450-500hp.

I say this because of the new engine in the Cadillac CTS... its a 3.6L making 304hp without any turbos or superchargers... the key technology here is gasoline direct inject. It allows for much higher compression ratios without knock, and it is what is going to allow these engines to make big power numbers. Also, GEN V engines will probably be DOHC, which will allow higher revs, and consequently more power.

Both of these technologies make more sense for GM than supercharging EVERYTHING... that technology is expensive and ineffcient.

Anyway, I call on this article... sounds like more rumours without a lot of thought.

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Old 10-31-2007, 12:34 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoFlaZ View Post
Also, does anybody know exactly this works?? I know the Ford GT also has this but dont really get how it works.
The supercharger at is mounted in the engine valley (between the cylinder banks), it sucks in air at the front of the engine, and compresses it. This air takes a right turn and exist the bottom of the supercharger (right into the valley)... here's the key bit... once it leaves the supercharger, it passes through an intercooler which lives in between the bottom of the superchager and the intake tracts of the engine manifold. This intercooler is a liquid-to-air type intercooler that uses cooled water (or coolant) to cool the air before it runs into the engine.

Hope this helps.

~LSx
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Old 10-31-2007, 01:08 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JMROD View Post
Dont know how valid this info is but I thought I would share this. Don't think this has been posted.

"LS8…
This is another 6.2-liter, smallblock V8 with a supercharger. It also features an intercooler integrated into the intake manifold. This will be the motor going into the top-end Zeta platform cars. The most premium Camaro, probably called Z28, will get this motor.
That said, original plans had this motor going into a Denali SUV or truck, however, those plans now seem to be canceled. Again, this maybe a result of CAFE.
Some of Holden’s vehicles may also get this motor eventually. Initial specs have this motor at 475 to 500 horsepower with a choice of manual or automatic transmissions.
When the LS7 dies, the Z06 will get this motor. Possibly, slightly uptuned from the version the Zeta cars would get. This motor will start production in
first or second quarter of 2010."

I am not getting to excited yet but from what I know and what my friend tells me (Corvette owner) that site has reliable info.

This may be an early leak to what we might find out (its valid) once the "you don't want to miss November" news is posted tomorrow on the Chevy Nation site.

Again, its still a rumor until Chevy/GM announces it.

Source:
http://www.corvetteconti.com/blog/?p=1383#more-1383
Yup, it was here...Thread/Post moved
Keep looking for stuff, though!
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Old 11-01-2007, 05:42 PM   #18
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I dont buy the Z06 getting the same motor as the top Camaro. Also, the Camaro has always been roughly a year or so behind the 'vette in the engine dept. so even if it did get the "Z06" engine it wouldnt be the same year, and the 'vette would make significantly more HP. IMO no way does GM take away from their top dog the Z06 by putting an engine in the Camaro that equally performs....
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:08 AM   #19
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I always liked the fact GM made their power without forced induction.
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:08 AM   #20
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^So did I...but I sure as heck am not against the idea of a SC'er in my Camaro. If they want to do it, COOL BY ME!
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Old 11-02-2007, 10:36 AM   #21
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Its been posted by those in the know that gm has this attitude...


GM has a HP target, if they can reach it NA they will, if it requires a power adder (supercharger/turbo) it will get it..
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Old 11-02-2007, 01:17 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LSxcellent View Post
This intercooler is a liquid-to-air type intercooler that uses cooled water (or coolant) to cool the air before it runs into the engine.

Hope this helps.

~LSx

OK, I just wasnt sure if it was air-to-air with some jigsaw puzzle of intercooler pipes or just a simple water-to-air. But how much cooler can the air really get when it whizzes through the rather short i/c at higher rpm? I'm sure it helps but I cant picture huge temp drops with this type of i/c, but hey its still got a SUPERCHARGER!
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Old 11-02-2007, 03:11 PM   #23
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The roots/screw type intercoolers aren't all that efficient, no. At least not compared to the air-to-air used by Procharger...but they do help as opposed to nothing. I think they're something like 50%... But they do make the difference between knock...and no-knock.
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Old 11-06-2007, 02:44 PM   #24
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The roots/screw type intercoolers aren't all that efficient, no. At least not compared to the air-to-air used by Procharger...but they do help as opposed to nothing. I think they're something like 50%... But they do make the difference between knock...and no-knock.
Automakers like water to air intercoolers because they are easier to fit under the hood (no fat pressurized air lines from the compressor to the intercooler and back to the intake).

Speed junkies like them because you can supplement (or replace) the air to water cooler (in front of the radiator) with a few gallons of ice water and theoretically achieve sub-ambient intake air temps as long as your ice lasts. Banks set a land speed record this way back in the 80s or 90 (in a Trans-Am I think).

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Old 11-06-2007, 03:10 PM   #25
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Banks set a land speed record this way back in the 80s or 90 (in a Trans-Am I think).
Yes he did. Basically he put a twin turbo setup on one, replaced the transmission and did a couple other less significant modifications. It went somewhere around 280 mph. And i think it was still street legal
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