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Old 04-24-2009, 12:39 AM   #351
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I feeling a WTF moment seeing tape weights stuck to a new Brembo caliper? To deaden unwanted harmonics/squeel? Did Mark Stielow(GM engineer responsible for 1LE SCCA package) come up with this?

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Old 04-24-2009, 01:12 AM   #352
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Originally Posted by Beechdoctor View Post
Does anybody really think these stick on weights will be there 1, 2, or 10 years from now???
The weights aren't pretty but no need to go all chicken little about it since depending on how this was done they very well could last a decade+.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:13 AM   #353
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Wheels weights on the calipers def not a good luck. Engineering should have taken care of this issue. Hope this is corrected soon.
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:47 AM   #354
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this is why i dont buy first year cars. Why do you think the 69 is the most popular classic model?
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Old 04-24-2009, 02:06 AM   #355
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Originally Posted by Tran View Post
OFFICIAL ANSWER FROM JOHN FITZPATRICK:

Some early Camaro customers noticed that there are weights on the Camaro SS calipers. With high-performance vehicles like the Camaro SS, minor brake noise is not uncommon. The weights act as a damper to reduce noise in certain driving conditions. This was done after careful evaluation and validation by our engineering team. These weights will only be added to early builds of the Camaro SS.

Show me any other "high performance cars" that have this sort of quality engineering. One Porsche, Ferrari, M series Bimmer, just one.

Why wasn't careful evaluation and validation done one, two or three years ago when the car was testing?
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:40 AM   #356
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Are these weights being added to cars on the assembly line right now? Has this problem been resolved?
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:44 AM   #357
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I just wanted to point out, I checked my brembo's, and as far as I can tell, I DO NOT have weights. It was late in the evening so the lighting wasn't the best, I'll post up when I get a chance to check out for sure, and maybe get some pics.
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Old 04-24-2009, 05:59 AM   #358
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pushing_Tin View Post
Show me any other "high performance cars" that have this sort of quality engineering. One Porsche, Ferrari, M series Bimmer, just one.

Why wasn't careful evaluation and validation done one, two or three years ago when the car was testing?

LOOK PEOPLE

Other high-end, high performance cars DO use weighted brake caliper dampeners.

Here is one that they use on a Porsche (notice the lead):

http://www.design911.co.uk/fu/pt66_2...bration-shims/



Here is one that they use on Audi cars:






That said, the only valid point to any complaining is that this is a band-aid type of dampener. My guess is that GM WILL NOT need to replace anybody's Brembo calipers, but will engineer a proper dampening plate similar to the way that Porsche and Audi (and many other "high-performance" cars) engineering has. At that point, you should be able to take your early production SS into your local Chevy dealership and they will install the properly engineered dampener. I would also be willing to bet that the later production SS Camaros will come with the same Brembo's except an internal dampener instead of the wheel weights. They just have to spool up a subcontractor to make the properly engineered dampener.


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Old 04-24-2009, 06:04 AM   #359
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Those weights are not gonna stay and then what?
Quote:
Originally Posted by orange_5thgen View Post
My main concern is how long will they stay on? How long will it be before you're driving down the road and they come off and then who knows what kind of damage they might do to your car or some elses on the road.
What makes everyone so sure they're going to fall off?
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:18 AM   #360
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So what? You pay for the Premium Brakes they should not have weights sticking on top.

I would not accept delivery of a car that had that if it was myself.

The calipers MUST be replaced free of cost IMO*.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:46 AM   #361
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Ok so GM realizes this issue late in the game... I'm sure considering we have seen the whole testing process there is probably a reason they didn't see this earlier, so the solutions:

A) Leave it as is. (This place would have screamed bloody murder)
B) Delay the car again (world revolution would begin, camaro5ers would show up at Fbods door with pitchforks and torches)
C) Come up with a perfectly workable solution that while it looks like shit is completely safe and does the job. (everyone gets their panties in a wad anyway)

I am glad they went with C, and everyone needs to lighten up and realize that if it wasn't safe they wouldn't have released it, and the engineers that came up with it know a hell of a lot more than most of us. Also you have a warranty on this car so if there was a problem (which BTW the WORST possible problem would be they fall off and you get brake squeal BFD) it would be fixed under warranty!

I know this reply and FirstLSK's (great post man) reply above will be completely ignored and the whining will continue anyway.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:48 AM   #362
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I'm pretty sure they won't replace them. Their engineering team corrected the problem and moved on. Sub-contractor, brembo, will start making design changes according to GM specs and life goes on. I have never seen anything engineered flawlessly the first time around. If its a safety issue and they knew about it, then it wouldn't have even gotten to the customer yet.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:53 AM   #363
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They must replace them. Remember that's the banks car not yours unless you paid cash. I would only have to make one call to my Credit Union and it would get replaced.

Here is the letter that should of came with the car.

Dr Customer. Your car has been fitted with a temporary set of counter balance weights on your front brake calipers. As soon as replacement calipers are available, you will be contacted and the dealer will swap out with the corrected part.

... That's what it should be. And it should be told to the customer before the keys are handed to them.

You can in fact get a refund for the whole car if they refuse to fix them. The bank can get there money back.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:59 AM   #364
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I'm pretty sure they won't replace them. Their engineering team corrected the problem and moved on. Sub-contractor, brembo, will start making design changes according to GM specs and life goes on. I have never seen anything engineered flawlessly the first time around. If its a safety issue and they knew about it, then it wouldn't have even gotten to the customer yet.
Until we all hear from GM about what they plan to do about it, speculating about what GM will do is pointless..I want to hear it from them if they won't do anything about it for customers receiving their cars with this "quick fix".

GM's response if they go "Gameover's" route.

The brake calipers will not be replaced by GM or the dealer as they have been fixed at the factory up to standards. (or something of this nature)

What we all would like to hear.

Do to overwhelming concern with the current solution for deadening the brake squeals, GM will be offering to replace the calipers under warranty when they become available.


or

We understand everyone's concern with the quality of the lead placed on the breaks and how long they should last. Furthermore we understand they are not the only types of weights that exist on the market. Once a more aesthetic looking "break harmonics silencer" becomes available, we shall replace it for free for the newer models which will come standard in the 2010 Camaro.


Either one of these types of responses by GM would be fine by me and should lay this thread to rest..

I would also like to hear if there is nothing they will be doing about it. Since their first acknowledgment about this issue was lacking anything further in what they plan to do about it for those that already received theirs.
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Old 04-24-2009, 06:59 AM   #365
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They must replace them. Remember that's the banks car not yours unless you paid cash. I would only have to make one call to my Credit Union and it would get replaced.

Here is the letter that should of came with the car.

Dr Customer. Your car has been fitted with a temporary set of counter balance weights on your front brake calipers. As soon as replacement calipers are available, you will be contacted and the dealer will swap out with the corrected part.

... That's what it should be. And it should be told to the customer before the keys are handed to them.

You can in fact get a refund for the whole car if they refuse to fix them. The bank can get there money back.
I don't mean to sound condescending but good luck getting that refund. The bank and GM would tell you to go pound sand. There is nothing functionally unsafe about them.

My cousin had an issue with his brand new Toyota 4 Runner where Exhaust was coming into the cabin when the rear windows were open (long story) he went through 2 years of fighting and they STILL never took it back, and he gave up.

I want to punch him because he still talks about how he loved it anyway and he would buy Toyota again...
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:08 AM   #366
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Originally Posted by theholycow View Post
What makes everyone so sure they're going to fall off?
When you use the brakes to maximum potential, they get very hot even though isolators are used to limit heat transfer into the caliper body from the pads. These appear to be wheel balance weights that are being "stuck" on using a double sided adhesive tape that often uses a thin foam core. They won't survive the heat long, and I would estimate that a stiff power wash may break them loose.

I have no problem with proper weight dampers on the calipers with good form, fit, and function, but this is without a doubt an after thought. Its not a deal breaker, but very short sighted engineering to fix a nuisance issue without slowing delivery...it looks absolutely laughable to anyone that has a mechanical engineering background.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:11 AM   #367
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Again, the early production Brembo's do not need to be replaced and most likely will not get replaced. They can just need to exchange the external wheel weight dampener with an internal engineered dampener -- just like all the other manufacturers do.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:13 AM   #368
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When you use the brakes to maximum potential, they get very hot even though isolators are used to limit heat transfer into the caliper body from the pads. These appear to be wheel balance weights that are being "stuck" on using a double sided adhesive tape that often uses a thin foam core. They won't survive the heat long, and I would estimate that a stiff power wash may break them loose.

I have no problem with proper weight dampers on the calipers with good form, fit, and function, but this is without a doubt an after thought. Its not a deal breaker, but very short sighted engineering to fix a nuisance issue without slowing delivery...it looks absolutely laughable to anyone that has a mechanical engineering background.

Just curious, are you sure they are "taped" on? I would assume that its some kind of metal adhesive. Haven't heard fact on that!
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:15 AM   #369
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Originally Posted by Beechdoctor View Post
When you use the brakes to maximum potential, they get very hot even though isolators are used to limit heat transfer into the caliper body from the pads. These appear to be wheel balance weights that are being "stuck" on using a double sided adhesive tape that often uses a thin foam core. They won't survive the heat long, and I would estimate that a stiff power wash may break them loose.

I have no problem with proper weight dampers on the calipers with good form, fit, and function, but this is without a doubt an after thought. Its not a deal breaker, but very short sighted engineering to fix a nuisance issue without slowing delivery...it looks absolutely laughable to anyone that has a mechanical engineering background.

PURE SPECULATION You're guessing on what the material "appears to be" and how it is applied.....They are Engineers, do you know an engineer that will say "just stick some ordinary wheel wieghts on there" without checking it out? I work with a bunch of them, it's like pulling teeth to get their approval on anything, "they have to run some numbers' and "do a little research first".
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:20 AM   #370
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These appear to be wheel balance weights that are being "stuck" on using a double sided adhesive tape that often uses a thin foam core. They won't survive the heat long, and I would estimate that a stiff power wash may break them loose.
I doubt they would be that negligent -- it could expose them to lawsuits when the weights fly off and hurt or damage someone or something. Even if not, there's no reason to think they are stuck on with foam poster mounting tape. That would be visible in the photos.

Why would you think GM is so incompetent that they would not use high-temperature adhesive to mount them?
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:24 AM   #371
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Ok, so what is the cut off on vins that have them?

Maybe I missed it. So I'll ask again. Does anyone know the vin at which
these are not being used.
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:30 AM   #372
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Maybe I missed it. So I'll ask again. Does anyone know the vin at which
these are not being used.
I think after #4000! Just messing with you. Nobody knows for sure yet!
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:37 AM   #373
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:40 AM   #374
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Again, the early production Brembo's do not need to be replaced and most likely will not get replaced. They can just need to exchange the external wheel weight dampener with an internal engineered dampener -- just like all the other manufacturers do.
You didn't buy Brembs with weights. You purchased Brembs without weights.

This is a customer service 101 issue. The calipers must be replaced. It's about a 2 hour job at the dealer. And of course they must of already ordered fixed calipers for later runs.

Fixing this is PROTECTING the car and it's image. It's not attacking it. It's PROTECTING GM.... not attacking it.

You know how much damage this would do if a pic of these pops up on Drudge later today saying GM shipped them and is not gonna fix?
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Old 04-24-2009, 07:42 AM   #375
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I'm going to add them on all sorts of parts in the car when I get it, they look cool and have to add at least 10 rwhp if my calculations are correct (and I am NEVER wrong).

Add a couple to the intake manifold for better flowing air, to the steering wheel for better handling and a few to the gas tank for better mileage since I'll be punching it often.
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