What if there never is a top fix?

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by Bonanza7

GM has a long history of bad engineering of the top mechanism and third rate material for the tops themselves. You would think they would get it straight one of these decades. Ford gets theirs right.

I think a lot of it has to do with the shape of the top as well, though I could be wrong on this, they did mimic the body lines of the coupe fairly well. It should be expected that they would have some problems. Either that or it's just another cost cutting measure, like the interior or poor leather used on the seats... It's sad to hear these cars have so many problems but there are obviously some that seem to be fine so that's encouraging.

[oldfriend]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

Let's hope not. But a business is out to make money. Take my car or yours Nutt, they didn't make a dime and have actually put out more fixing them. If it continues a business would have no choice to either get a complete fix to stop the bleeding or cut their losses and quit making them.

How do you know that they [ GM ] didn't make any money on your and others cars ? Besides they will have to fix what's not done / working the way it suppose to , if they don't make it right , they better start asking for more BAILOUT MONEY , good luck with that .

[95birdible]

How do I know they didn't make any money on my car? Well, I have seen the invoices that the dealer bills back for warranty work. Over 8 grand. You think the margin that Chevy has is greater than that? I don't. If it is more power to them. They are losing their shorts on warranty work on these tops and tape fixes. They need to step up and redesign it and retrofit our cars. If not come spring when we all have our cars back in the shop and are over our 30 days, they are going to get a flood of Lemon Law paperwork. Mine is just waiting to be sent in. Others are as fed up as me. Read the forum.
Since you have a hardtop you have no idea what we are going through. As it has been said before, imagine you get a rust spot on your roof and within 6 weeks it goes through. Now you have a leak. The dealer fixes it and it's back again in 2 weeks. I think you would be a little pissed off wouldn't you?

[Mike E]

Next camaro rally, nearest dealer, 30 camaros with top trouble that should get att.

[calbert1999]

It never ends with these vehicles does it?

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

It never ends with these vehicles does it?

Nope, moon roof rattles, blow speakers, leaking engine oil, afm lifters, vert top problems, spoiler chipping, radio scratches, leather prematurely wearing, the list goes on, it's super sad when a company won't stand behind their product. Regarding the leather seats I refuse to believe they use high quality leather in them as I have more damage to them in two years then my 03 350z has over almost 10... Here's hoping GM gets off their ass and actually changes as a company and does a complete fix for the very owners. I hear all this bs about how GM has changed but as a Camaro owner I know first hand they haven't...

[GTAHVIT]

Guys,

We appreciate the frustration that comes with a car that we are so eager to have that has problems like this.

But, we are not here to act as a bully pulpit to apply leverage to any person, company or vendor.

Please keep your criticism focused on the topic at hand. And please just use the report button when you see something obnoxious being posted.

I can say this with the utmost confidence... Chevy absolutely watches this site. I obviously can't assess what they may or may not be doing as I'm don't have any information that you don't already know.

Feel free to vent, rant, and express your frustration, but we won't allow camaro5 to become a hate site. FWIW.

Respectfully,

Chris

[95birdible]

Then keep the hardtop guys and gals out of this forum if they have nothing constructive to say. I personally don't like my 40k car being made fun of cause it's in the shop all the time. I know most wouldn't either. If they start spewing again, me and my fellow vert brethren will not tolerate it.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by 95birdible

Then keep the hardtop guys and gals out of this forum if they have nothing constructive to say. I personally don't like my 40k car being made fun of cause it's in the shop all the time. I know most wouldn't either. If they start spewing again, me and my fellow vert brethren will not tolerate it.

Lets get something into perspective.

there are 50K members here there are I think 15 moderators/admins... You do the math...

This thread is not about coupes vs verts. it's about the legit problems you guys have with your cars... that's it.

if you don't like what is being posted in here then use the REPORT button...

And don't get baited into a stupid argument that will end in both sides getting banned for breaking the rules of this site.

Report the posts and let us sort it out.

We can't PREVENT anything... I cant' PREDICT who's going to post where and what they will post. So do us a favor and help us out.

Is that really too much to ask.

[95birdible]

Myself and my vert brethren will help out when need be.

[GTAHVIT]

thanks guys.

[Bonanza7]

It occurred to me: My first experience with a GM ragtop was 2 91 Cavalier converts. They were all sent to ASC for the tops. I believe ASC engineered the tops and picked the fabric, in addition to installing them. The problems were the same: Wear marks, rubs and holes punched through the tops by the mechanism. I wonder if ASC did the design of the tops on the new Camaros also. That might explain a lot, if they did. Along with the holes in the tops, the boot behind the rear seats got large rips in them. I got fed up, and went into the trunk to check. Seems ASC used a cutting torch to remove the hard top. Left the edges ragged, with no protection. You could see the burns in the paint. Quality workmanship with those guys.

[Justification]

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

I can say this with the utmost confidence... Chevy absolutely watches this site.
Respectfully,

Chris

I truely hope they are watching these threads closely. I've been quiet about it since mine is not anywhere near a daily driver, so I am not seeing the wear nearly as fast as others are, but I am seeing the rub marks and my dealer was unable to even find the appropriate TSB.
The mechanic working on mine did a great job with the 5th bow issue, but I had to show him what was wrong after the first attempt to fix was an adjustment when I got my stripes clearcoated. After finally seeing the way the top was supposed to fit he agreed it was wrong and it was fixed.
Then when the rub marks started showing up he couldn't find the most current TSB so did the first TSB fix but the marks are still there.
I'm being patient for a fix that I HOPE is on the way. I was hoping to get it fixed over the winter, but I've got the warrantee period for it to be fixed and that is why I'm being patient, much more patient than when the car was built but sitting waiting for shipping for over 3 weeks.

I'd just like confirmation that they are indeed watching these threads and not just greasing the squeeky wheels.

[Bonanza7]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

It never ends with these vehicles does it?

Very similar to the Solstice. Endless problems of every sort. I thought GM was supposed to have an engineering department. Didn't they test anything?

[tjk_art]

The best you're going to get out of GM is a service bulletin that says "we know this is an issue, but it is perfectly normal under perfect condition, therefore it is not an issue and we can not fix it."

[vanlieremead]

On the number 5 BOW, I actually saw it on a car in the dealer's lot - not even sold yet. It manifests itself by the rear not being taught and a thick seal being exposed just above the rear trunk. I pointed it out to the salesman who rushed over to sell me a car as I was looking over l the verts in his lot. He was a little deflated when i told him that I was in getting my 2011 top replaced (7k miles).

Below is a picture on my car.

Yes, and as you all know, I also have the rub marks. My top is on order. In advance I wrote the following and gave it to my service advisor:

---------

Don,

I'm sure you are aware of Camaro5 - the forum for the 5th generation Camaro. There is a generic thread group for the Convertibles and specific ones therein. I attached a link to one thread called "Unfortunately my 'Fix' wasn't a fix." This thread points out the failing of the top after the replacement was made. There was a 'pop' when the #5 bow broke or bent with the resultant issue of that back pulling out - just like mine. There are other threads on this forum that point out the holes in the sides (same as mine.)

This particular thread points out that dealers are "unfortunately" subcontracting out the top work and the companies that do the work do not follow GM instructions. And then of course we have the issue that even the GM design has a flaw that is in redesign. Sound familiar to our situation?

So I am concerned. I'm worried that the bow will pop on the new top. I'm concerned that the holes will reappear in the sides. And I'm concerned that in 6 months I'll be back on your doorstep with the same issues.

Therefore, I really need to know a few things:

- Is the outfit that you use certified to perform 2011 Camaro top replacements by General Motors? (Specifically Camaro)
- Does the replacement company follow GM instructions? Do they have these instructions?
- Is a GM technician available to witness the repair?
- What different designs or techniques are being used to prevent recurrence of the #5 bow issue and the holes in the sides?
- After replacement, what type of testing will be performed to insure that the top operates to the original OEM design? Is this testing the same as the original OEM testing?
- Can I witness the replacement (all or part of it) and take pictures?

Thanks for your help. My purpose here is to insure that the replacement goes well and that neither of us are spending any more resources on this issue. Our interests are aligned here.

Chris

[Nutbutt]

Great letter ! I would recommend everyone use this when/If you are getting your top replaced. The only other comment I would have is that you should require an extension on the warranty for the Top, all mechanical assembly of the top, and water management system associated with the top for 10yr, or 100K miles.
So far the GM reps have been receptive to the extended warranty.

Originally Posted by vanlieremead

On the number 5 BOW, I actually saw it on a car in the dealer's lot - not even sold yet. It manifests itself by the rear not being taught and a thick seal being exposed just above the rear trunk. I pointed it out to the salesman who rushed over to sell me a car as I was looking over l the verts in his lot. He was a little deflated when i told him that I was in getting my 2011 top replaced (7k miles).

Below is a picture on my car.

Yes, and as you all know, I also have the rub marks. My top is on order. In advance I wrote the following and gave it to my service advisor:

---------

Don,

I'm sure you are aware of Camaro5 - the forum for the 5th generation Camaro. There is a generic thread group for the Convertibles and specific ones therein. I attached a link to one thread called "Unfortunately my 'Fix' wasn't a fix." This thread points out the failing of the top after the replacement was made. There was a 'pop' when the #5 bow broke or bent with the resultant issue of that back pulling out - just like mine. There are other threads on this forum that point out the holes in the sides (same as mine.)

This particular thread points out that dealers are "unfortunately" subcontracting out the top work and the companies that do the work do not follow GM instructions. And then of course we have the issue that even the GM design has a flaw that is in redesign. Sound familiar to our situation?

So I am concerned. I'm worried that the bow will pop on the new top. I'm concerned that the holes will reappear in the sides. And I'm concerned that in 6 months I'll be back on your doorstep with the same issues.

Therefore, I really need to know a few things:

- Is the outfit that you use certified to perform 2011 Camaro top replacements by General Motors? (Specifically Camaro)
- Does the replacement company follow GM instructions? Do they have these instructions?
- Is a GM technician available to witness the repair?
- What different designs or techniques are being used to prevent recurrence of the #5 bow issue and the holes in the sides?
- After replacement, what type of testing will be performed to insure that the top operates to the original OEM design? Is this testing the same as the original OEM testing?
- Can I witness the replacement (all or part of it) and take pictures?

Thanks for your help. My purpose here is to insure that the replacement goes well and that neither of us are spending any more resources on this issue. Our interests are aligned here.

Chris

[pnyklr]

[QUOTE='11 cyber grey vert;4227697I think GM should be holding training sessions for certain dealers approved for top replacements and make sure it is done right.[/QUOTE]

They are.

-Funk

['11 cyber grey vert]

Originally Posted by pnyklr

They are.

-Funk

Then how do you explain, from what I have read,
the shoddy repair jobs at some dealers vs. the awesome repair jobs at other dealers?
If they were all trained and certified for top replacements?
Just my 2 cents.
Sounds like to me that some dealers are more qualified than others.
so IMO, what GM should be doing is refering the top replacements to the dealers with more experience and better results.

[pnyklr]

Some dealers ARE more qualified to replace tops than others.

GM is trying to get more dealers up to speed on the process.

-Funk

[AFCMSGTRET]

Does anyone know what percentage of the convertibles built have been taken in for repair?

[SUX2BU]

Originally Posted by pincoin

I can almost guarantee there will be no conv in the next gen. The production is so low to justify it. I didnt even get mine yet, I know of the potential problems but will live with them. Hopefully GM will make them right and I believe they will.
Potentially someone will have a fix.

LOL

Originally Posted by monstertodd

With everything that I've read about the convertible problems, I have to ask one question:

Where is the aftermarket?

Why aren't savvy entrepreneurs stepping up with an aftermarket fix for the convertible tops? I understand that this is something GM needs to fix, but in the interim, where is the aftermarket?

Why would any company spend a dime to fix a factory problem. As soon as GM has a fix who will want to pay for a fix GM will do for free?

Originally Posted by AFCMSGTRET

Does anyone know what percentage of the convertibles built have been taken in for repair?

No. No one (besides GM) even knows how many verts exist..

[TommySS]

Isn't the 2013 ZL1 going to have a vert option?

[Lightrider]

Originally Posted by TommySS

Isn't the 2013 ZL1 going to have a vert option?

Yep, its doing the auto show tours now.

[Indiana Rocket]

There will be a top fix. The taxpayers lent GM $50B and only got paid back $32B. I'm pretty sure the other $18 billion is paying for the redesign of the Camaro top and the fire thingy going on with the Volts.

Seriously though they will fix the top. I have faith that GM knows there are hungry lawyers wanting to start a class action lawsuit.

I'm just waiting for the final fix due out in January 2012 before I let them fix the holes in my top. Have faith or at least believe in the money makes the world go around principle.