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Old 12-28-2011, 04:23 PM   #1
1JEWLDSSRS

 
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Question X-PIPE LOCATION..

Hello Camaro family, I have a question for you performance techs and the exhaust pros, I was at my dealership yesterday talking to my mech about my car and he showed me a 2010 SS L99 car that h3e installed a supercharger setup on, he had the car up on a lift to install a Hotchkis subframe connectors and swaybars and it had the GM performance exhaust on it and I noticed that the X-pipe was located behind the tranny tunnel brace and before the axles??? I asked why it was there and he said that is where it belongs.Before I installed mine I asked on here and was sent a pic of the proper location for it and it was before the tunnel brace where the big resonator was..What's up with that ??Does he have his in the wrong place? Or is this where it goes for supercharged aps..Thanks..Just curious..
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:45 PM   #2
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My Xpipe is where the H-pipe used to be.
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:51 PM   #3
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Before the tunnel brace right??
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:51 PM   #4
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It should be as close to the headers or exhaust manifolds as possible. Yet another Dealer tech that does'nt know sh*t........

Where do they find these guys?
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Old 12-28-2011, 04:52 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by 1JEWLDSSRS View Post
Before the tunnel brace right??
Yes, before the tunnel brace
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Old 12-28-2011, 05:00 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by BLACK10 View Post
It should be as close to the headers or exhaust manifolds as possible. Yet another Dealer tech that does'nt know sh*t........

Where do they find these guys?
That's what I was thinking and have read on here as to the location of it for best scavenging of the exhaust pulses. I didn't say anything to him about it, just shook my head in disbelief.. Just goes to show ya that some of these guys don't know what the F thay are talking about.And they are out there everywhere, just beware.. He's not working on my car..
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:28 PM   #7
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WRONG !!! WRONG !!! WRONG !!!

On a stock or bolt-on car (stock cam) the X-Pipe goes 73 inches behind the end of the stock cast iron manifolds, or...

...with headers, 73 inches behind the end of the primary tubes.

Also, both 36 1/2 inches AND 146 inches back will also work just fine too. Its about math, not myth...

There is no "Place" that is goes. Where it ends up depends on many factors, cam, headers, etc...

If that dealer car in question has long tube headers on it, the X-Pipe would be moved back from the stock location to be in the correct position. So many opinions, so many don't know $h!t.
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:42 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by 14pilot View Post
WRONG !!! WRONG !!! WRONG !!!

On a stock or bolt-on car (stock cam) the X-Pipe goes 73 inches behind the end of the stock cast iron manifolds, or...

...with headers, 73 inches behind the end of the primary tubes.

Also, both 36 1/2 inches AND 146 inches back will also work just fine too. Its about math, not myth...

There is no "Place" that is goes. Where it ends up depends on many factors, cam, headers, etc...

If that dealer car in question has long tube headers on it, the X-Pipe would be moved back from the stock location to be in the correct position. So many opinions, so many don't know $h!t.
Does not have LT's on it. Stock exhaust manifolds..
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:47 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14pilot View Post
WRONG !!! WRONG !!! WRONG !!!

On a stock or bolt-on car (stock cam) the X-Pipe goes 73 inches behind the end of the stock cast iron manifolds, or...

...with headers, 73 inches behind the end of the primary tubes.

Also, both 36 1/2 inches AND 146 inches back will also work just fine too. Its about math, not myth...

There is no "Place" that is goes. Where it ends up depends on many factors, cam, headers, etc...

If that dealer car in question has long tube headers on it, the X-Pipe would be moved back from the stock location to be in the correct position. So many opinions, so many don't know $h!t.
Care to explain ?? Cause now everyone elses advice is wrong..
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:49 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1JEWLDSSRS View Post
Does not have LT's on it. Stock exhaust manifolds..
Ok, so if this car has a stock cam too, then the X-Pipe location is found by measuring directly down the imagined centerline of the exhaust pipe.

It would work fine at 36 1/2 inches back, EXCEPT the transmission would be in the way. So keep measuring back down to either 73 or 146 inches from the manifold/exhaust pipe joint.

If they put a cam in it (doubtful) then its a different measurement based on that cam.

Measurement from end of manifold (or primaries on LT headers) to the center of the X-Pipe
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Old 12-28-2011, 06:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
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Care to explain ?? Cause now everyone elses advice is wrong..
Yes, they are wrong.

The location is calculated using all the engine specs, focused on the cam timing. The calculation results in locations that determined in inches from the ends of the manifolds. The length is a tuned length based on the engine's exhaust harmonics.

As for the factory H-Pipe location, it is correct for a stock engine.
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#5 - 2010 2SS/RS MN6 ABM #142-Silver Rallys-GFX / Med Titanium
My previous Camaros:
#4 - 1994 Z/28 6M Black over Arctic White / Graphite-Red Inserts - traded
#3 - 1981 Z/28 Bright Blue Metallic / Black - sold
#2 - 1970.5 RS Mulsanne Blue / Blue - endo crashed it and parted it out
#1 - 1967 RS Butternut Yellow w/ Black Bumblebee Stripe-RPO D91 / Parchment-Black - sold
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Old 12-28-2011, 07:09 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14pilot View Post
Yes, they are wrong.

The location is calculated using all the engine specs, focused on the cam timing. The calculation results in locations that determined in inches from the ends of the manifolds. The length is a tuned length based on the engine's exhaust harmonics.

As for the factory H-Pipe location, it is correct for a stock engine.
OK, thanks for the explaination, so with this being explained I need to move mine back to where his is depending on the measurement ? And if I move it will there be any noticable difference in the sound or the performance of the car? I think I see what you are saying.Thanks.
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Old 12-28-2011, 09:39 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1JEWLDSSRS View Post
OK, thanks for the explaination, so with this being explained I need to move mine back to where his is depending on the measurement ? And if I move it will there be any noticable difference in the sound or the performance of the car? I think I see what you are saying.Thanks.
If you are staying stock with the cam and you keep the stock cast iron exhaust manifolds, put the X-Pipe at 73 inches back. This will be about right where the stock H-pipe is at. If you put on long tube headers, then measure 73 inches back from the end of the primary tubes. This is also the same point as the front of the collectors (where the primaries join the forward part of the collectors). If you are going to cam the car, PM me the cam specs so I can calc where the X-pipe goes. For instance, if you were to cam the car with a cam that peaked at 6,400RPM, then the X-pipe would go 68 inches back instead of 73 inches back. If you then stroke the engine to 416c.i. then the X-pipe moves again.

Point is there is not a place on the car for the X-pipe, there is a measurement back based on what you are running under the hood.

You can use thin inexpensive striping tape to measure down the centerline of the exhaust pipes. Best to clean the pipe first. If you are careful, you can also use a steel measuring tape and sharpie to measure your way down the pipe. Just remember to imagine the pipe's centerline, start at the end of the manifold, end at the center of the X-pipe.

The correct location won't change sound much if any, but it will give the best performance. Good luck.
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#5 - 2010 2SS/RS MN6 ABM #142-Silver Rallys-GFX / Med Titanium
My previous Camaros:
#4 - 1994 Z/28 6M Black over Arctic White / Graphite-Red Inserts - traded
#3 - 1981 Z/28 Bright Blue Metallic / Black - sold
#2 - 1970.5 RS Mulsanne Blue / Blue - endo crashed it and parted it out
#1 - 1967 RS Butternut Yellow w/ Black Bumblebee Stripe-RPO D91 / Parchment-Black - sold
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Old 12-29-2011, 12:46 AM   #14
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thanks for the info 14pilot, this helped me a lot!!!
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seriously though...
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Old 12-29-2011, 01:51 AM   #15
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Isnt that wth i said?!? As close to the front as possible.

Op, just tell them to put it where the factory H pipe is. Its not that difficult.....

But seriously 14pilot, Look at my mods and let me know where my xpipe should be and i can measure it and see how far im off. Then i might move it and see if it changes the rwhp

Last edited by BLACK10; 12-29-2011 at 02:12 AM.
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:03 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14pilot View Post
If you are staying stock with the cam and you keep the stock cast iron exhaust manifolds, put the X-Pipe at 73 inches back. This will be about right where the stock H-pipe is at. If you put on long tube headers, then measure 73 inches back from the end of the primary tubes. This is also the same point as the front of the collectors (where the primaries join the forward part of the collectors). If you are going to cam the car, PM me the cam specs so I can calc where the X-pipe goes. For instance, if you were to cam the car with a cam that peaked at 6,400RPM, then the X-pipe would go 68 inches back instead of 73 inches back. If you then stroke the engine to 416c.i. then the X-pipe moves again.

Point is there is not a place on the car for the X-pipe, there is a measurement back based on what you are running under the hood.

You can use thin inexpensive striping tape to measure down the centerline of the exhaust pipes. Best to clean the pipe first. If you are careful, you can also use a steel measuring tape and sharpie to measure your way down the pipe. Just remember to imagine the pipe's centerline, start at the end of the manifold, end at the center of the X-pipe.

The correct location won't change sound much if any, but it will give the best performance. Good luck.
Thanks man for the indepth explaination. The stock H-pipe location on my L99 was right under the tunnell brace, the tunnell brace kinda split the resonator into 2 sections and the crossover was in the middle of it, so the location of my X is only about 10 inches ahead of that point. Thanks everyone for the info and happy new year to you guys..
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Old 12-29-2011, 10:04 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BLACK10 View Post
Isnt that wth i said?!? As close to the front as possible.

Op, just tell them to put it where the factory H pipe is. Its not that difficult.....

But seriously 14pilot, Look at my mods and let me know where my xpipe should be and i can measure it and see how far im off. Then i might move it and see if it changes the rwhp
Nice setup BLACK10. That's one bad Camaro you've got there.



I don't know much about your Night Fury cam, other than that I've heard of it and know its a F.I. cam. I need to know a few more bits of info to calculate an X-pipe location for your setup. If you've posted a dyno sheet on this forum before, just a link to it, or post what I'm looking for here.
  • Your goal with your car is drag racing results ?
  • Assuming drag racing here, I don't know your gearing, so at what RPM do you hit the trap at ?
  • Bottom end is stock displacement of 376c.i. ?
  • RPM that Max HP occurs at ?
  • RPM that Max TQ occurs at ?
  • Boost PSI at Max HP RPM ?
I can be even more exact with your cam card. If you PM it to me, I won't share the specs. Otherwise, I'll figure it out from your answers to my questions above.
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#5 - 2010 2SS/RS MN6 ABM #142-Silver Rallys-GFX / Med Titanium
My previous Camaros:
#4 - 1994 Z/28 6M Black over Arctic White / Graphite-Red Inserts - traded
#3 - 1981 Z/28 Bright Blue Metallic / Black - sold
#2 - 1970.5 RS Mulsanne Blue / Blue - endo crashed it and parted it out
#1 - 1967 RS Butternut Yellow w/ Black Bumblebee Stripe-RPO D91 / Parchment-Black - sold
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:41 AM   #18
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Ill do that. I have access to a dyno so i can try this out
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:46 AM   #19
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There is another method to determine X pipe location once your engine is modified...but it involves building the exhaust twice.

Build the exhaust without an X pipe. Spray some cheap paint on the pipes (paint that will discolor with temperature). Flog the car really hard, look at the pipes, see where the paint is burning the most...that's where the X pipe goes when you replace the straight pipes.

If you wait too long when you're flogging the car, it'll all burn...it all gets hot...it's an old school racers trick, and I prefer to just use math and build it once, but it does work.
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Old 12-29-2011, 11:56 AM   #20
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There is another method to determine X pipe location once your engine is modified...but it involves building the exhaust twice.

Build the exhaust without an X pipe. Spray some cheap paint on the pipes (paint that will discolor with temperature). Flog the car really hard, look at the pipes, see where the paint is burning the most...that's where the X pipe goes when you replace the straight pipes.

If you wait too long when you're flogging the car, it'll all burn...it all gets hot...it's an old school racers trick, and I prefer to just use math and build it once, but it does work.
Ah, yeah...

Your are correct in that this is how we did it 30 years ago. I did it on my first race car back in 1980 for my H-pipe location.

It doesn't work IMHO. The hottest spot burns the paint off first, but since 30 years ago, we've learned alot more and the hottest spot turns out not to be the ideal location. Yes, stick with the math...
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#5 - 2010 2SS/RS MN6 ABM #142-Silver Rallys-GFX / Med Titanium
My previous Camaros:
#4 - 1994 Z/28 6M Black over Arctic White / Graphite-Red Inserts - traded
#3 - 1981 Z/28 Bright Blue Metallic / Black - sold
#2 - 1970.5 RS Mulsanne Blue / Blue - endo crashed it and parted it out
#1 - 1967 RS Butternut Yellow w/ Black Bumblebee Stripe-RPO D91 / Parchment-Black - sold
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Old 12-29-2011, 02:45 PM   #21
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Ah, yeah...

Your are correct in that this is how we did it 30 years ago. I did it on my first race car back in 1980 for my H-pipe location.

It doesn't work IMHO. The hottest spot burns the paint off first, but since 30 years ago, we've learned alot more and the hottest spot turns out not to be the ideal location. Yes, stick with the math...
It works better than just saying "oh it fits nicest here" lol...but yes, math does make it much more correct.
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