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Old 01-07-2012, 05:46 PM   #1
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Oil cap breather?

Getting a cam swap and wondering if this rx catch can and oil cap breather will give the tuner problems? I thought I read somewhere that this breather is okay but I want to find out for sure
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Old 01-07-2012, 05:58 PM   #2
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Essentially, you'll be letting unmetered air into the engine through the crankcase system that hasn't been measured by the MAF...I wouldn't do it.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:09 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOD View Post
Essentially, you'll be letting unmetered air into the engine through the crankcase system that hasn't been measured by the MAF...I wouldn't do it.
Please research before posting on a topic.

The RX oil breather has a check valve to only allow air out of the crankcase, not in. This helps with positive crankcase ventilation and decreases oil blow by.

If you got an oil breather off of eBay per say, that didn't have a check valve. Then yes you would be letting unmetered air into the crankcase.
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Old 01-07-2012, 06:46 PM   #4
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Thank you Stieger
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Old 01-07-2012, 08:03 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by stieger View Post
Please research before posting on a topic.

The RX oil breather has a check valve to only allow air out of the crankcase, not in. This helps with positive crankcase ventilation and decreases oil blow by.

If you got an oil breather off of eBay per say, that didn't have a check valve. Then yes you would be letting unmetered air into the crankcase.
My mistake, complete missed where he listed a specific brand.

If the check valve is reliable, then yeah, shouldn't affect the tune at all.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:26 PM   #6
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Okay I don't have to go digging for that tube and stock oil cap. I'll let my tuner know what stieger posted and see what he says.

"The RX oil breather has a check valve to only allow air out of the crankcase, not in. This helps with positive crankcase ventilation and decreases oil blow by. "

Thanks !
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:28 PM   #7
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My mistake, complete missed where he listed a specific brand.

If the check valve is reliable, then yeah, shouldn't affect the tune at all.
No worries. Didn't mean to jump down your throat about it btw, it's just been a rough day.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:36 AM   #8
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Even if it diid suck air in, how would that affect the tune? It's not like it's going into the combustion chamber. Unmetered air is only bad for the tune if it's using up fuel.

To the OP:
Be sure to check with guys that have it to see if they are getting excessive oily residue all over their engine. I had one for a short while on my old turbo Talon and it would blow oily residue all over everything.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:56 AM   #9
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It will throw off the A/F ratio thus causing you to pull timing.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:59 AM   #10
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Quoted from SC2150 himself.

"These breathers have a integrated one way checkvalve that helps prevent any mist escaping from the breather into your engine compartment as well as controls the correct amount of flow into the crankcase unlike a "open" breather."
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:51 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stieger View Post
Please research before posting on a topic.

The RX oil breather has a check valve to only allow air out of the crankcase, not in. This helps with positive crankcase ventilation and decreases oil blow by.

If you got an oil breather off of eBay per say, that didn't have a check valve. Then yes you would be letting unmetered air into the crankcase.
You really do need to follow your own advice!
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:39 AM   #12
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You really do need to follow your own advice!
Haha fair enough. That's my bad for getting it backwards. But either or, the RX oil breather does have a check valve
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:16 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by axis View Post
Even if it diid suck air in, how would that affect the tune? It's not like it's going into the combustion chamber. Unmetered air is only bad for the tune if it's using up fuel.

To the OP:
Be sure to check with guys that have it to see if they are getting excessive oily residue all over their engine. I had one for a short while on my old turbo Talon and it would blow oily residue all over everything.
Had mine for 600 miles now and no oil anywhere. Now even on the breather filter.

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Old 01-08-2012, 03:04 PM   #14
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Since you are going to have it tuned, any potential changes to fueling can be adusted. fwiw. I put a breather on my Impala and it threw the fuel trims way off. Someone was supposed to send me the RX breather to test on my Camaro (it's not custom tuned) so I could see if it affected fuel trims, but I've not seen it yet.
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:47 PM   #15
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if you use one and have a cold air intake, you need to cap off a line and that avoids some issues. Unless that has changed
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:25 PM   #16
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if you use one and have a cold air intake, you need to cap off a line and that avoids some issues. Unless that has changed
No you are correct. You need to cap off the vacuum line going to the fuel rail. Otherwise you'll pull timing.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:47 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yotaman96 View Post
Quoted from SC2150 himself.

"These breathers have a integrated one way checkvalve that helps prevent any mist escaping from the breather into your engine compartment as well as controls the correct amount of flow into the crankcase unlike a "open" breather."
Alright...well now I go back to my original statement.

A PCV system is intended to allow engine vacuum to pull air through the crank case, and that air comes from the air intake, between the MAF sensor and the throttle plate...this means the air is metered (and filtered).

By allowing it to pull that air from the oil fill cap location instead, it WILL cause a situation where the MAF sensor is not seeing all the air the engine is breathing...the O2 sensors will correct for it, but it can cause problems, and it can cause an incorrect air mass calculation, which can result in incorrect spark advance.

Controlled leak or uncontrolled leak...it's still unmetered air...I don't care what anyone says, that IS a tuning issue. Different altitudes will cause it to let in different amounts of air..so will difference humidity levels and everything else. It's not a MAJOR tuning issue...but I wouldn't allow it on my own car. I'm sure some vendors will disagree with me, but I've been messing with PCM tuning for over a decade now, the E38 running these cars is a big advancement over older GM PCM technology...but it's still relying on the same principles...it's a MAF car, so you really want ALL the air entering the engine, be it the air that's flowing through the crankcase or not, to pass the MAF element too...if it was a speed density car, it wouldn't really matter at all. You can run them in speed density, but more than 99% of these cars will always have a MAF sensor on them.

If you really want to run a catch can, you should still make the fresh air source come from the air intake, between the MAF and the throttle plate.

Mods please understand, I'm not trying to call a supporting vendors product a bad thing, I'm just trying to make sure people know as much as they can before they decide to run it or not. I hope I haven't upset anyone. I know this forum isn't really the same as a few others I'm on (including one I moderate...specifically the PCM tuning section of it)...if you don't want me to speak my mind I won't.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:03 PM   #18
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where is a good place to buy the rx catch can and breather?
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:05 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeOD View Post
Alright...well now I go back to my original statement.

A PCV system is intended to allow engine vacuum to pull air through the crank case, and that air comes from the air intake, between the MAF sensor and the throttle plate...this means the air is metered (and filtered).

By allowing it to pull that air from the oil fill cap location instead, it WILL cause a situation where the MAF sensor is not seeing all the air the engine is breathing...the O2 sensors will correct for it, but it can cause problems, and it can cause an incorrect air mass calculation, which can result in incorrect spark advance.

Controlled leak or uncontrolled leak...it's still unmetered air...I don't care what anyone says, that IS a tuning issue. Different altitudes will cause it to let in different amounts of air..so will difference humidity levels and everything else. It's not a MAJOR tuning issue...but I wouldn't allow it on my own car. I'm sure some vendors will disagree with me, but I've been messing with PCM tuning for over a decade now, the E38 running these cars is a big advancement over older GM PCM technology...but it's still relying on the same principles...it's a MAF car, so you really want ALL the air entering the engine, be it the air that's flowing through the crankcase or not, to pass the MAF element too...if it was a speed density car, it wouldn't really matter at all. You can run them in speed density, but more than 99% of these cars will always have a MAF sensor on them.

If you really want to run a catch can, you should still make the fresh air source come from the air intake, between the MAF and the throttle plate.

Mods please understand, I'm not trying to call a supporting vendors product a bad thing, I'm just trying to make sure people know as much as they can before they decide to run it or not. I hope I haven't upset anyone. I know this forum isn't really the same as a few others I'm on (including one I moderate...specifically the PCM tuning section of it)...if you don't want me to speak my mind I won't.
Of course you can speak your mind, the point of a forum is to get input from everyone. I'm not claiming to be an expert or anything on this subject. My knowledge is limited to what I've learned from Tracy (SC2150) - so I could be completely off base with what I said.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #20
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where is a good place to buy the rx catch can and breather?
send a PM to SC2150
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:46 PM   #21
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Okay I'm confused all over again :(
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Old 01-09-2012, 08:19 AM   #22
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It will throw off the A/F ratio thus causing you to pull timing.
How will this throw off the A/F ratio? I'm well aware that you want to decrease crankcase pressure for various reasons but how will air in the crankcase affect the amount of air in the cylinder?
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:25 AM   #23
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:34 AM   #24
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How will this throw off the A/F ratio? I'm well aware that you want to decrease crankcase pressure for various reasons but how will air in the crankcase affect the amount of air in the cylinder?
If you leave the vacuum line on the air intake? Because that's what I was referring to. I don't know how to explain it because I'm just repeating what I've read/been told.

Where are you SC2150. They're asking questions I don't know the answer to.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:34 AM   #25
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http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=68744

the intake has a vacuum, there for it will pull air from the open hose connecting to crankcase air chamber, correct?
on stock setup the little hose coming from the passenger side valve cover to the side of the intake is where the setup pulls air into the crankcase chamber. that air is monitored from the maf.
the air going into the breather hose is the exact same as the amount going into intake, physics. it doesnt matter where the movement is monitored, same movement throughout system. so if the new air is pulled from a breather, it pulls new air into the crankcase chamber, and the vacuum pulls it into the intake. this functions as a VACUUM LEAK. therefor at low rpms you will run lean. on high rpms the vacuum is significantly lower. when you release the throttle from WOT the vacuum is outrageous and will pull a significant amount of air, causing a massively lean down rev. back fires and knocks and very bad things.
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