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Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

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Old 01-08-2012, 07:26 PM   #26
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MisterCamaro69, perhaps it's the "tone" of what you are saying combined with random appearences in these threads, or not. Sometimes my fuzzy old brain takes a while to remember who has contributed to these threads and who hasn't if it hasn't been recent.
That said, back to the topics at hand. It sounds to me like the new chassis is going to fall within the range I said I hoped for a few weeks back, I said I felt certain the new ATS chassis would allow a 200 lb. weight reduction, but I was really hoping for a 300-400 lb. reduction and it looks like it will be very close to that.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:30 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by zogster View Post
One other thing to think about is how big the Camaro will be compared to the ATS. Same platform, but what about overall length? ATS is about 6 inches shorter than the Gen5, does that mean the Gen6 Camaro will be smaller than the current car? That could add weight as well.
Actually, the current Camaro is not that small, the body "footprint" is close to that of the '69/'70 Chevelle, look at pics of a 5th gen. Camaro next to a 1st gen Camaro, the 5th gen is significantly larger in overall size.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:39 PM   #28
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Actually, these guys come to mind..but at least they were comical...
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:45 PM   #29
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
MisterCamaro69, perhaps it's the "tone" of what you are saying combined with random appearences in these threads, or not. Sometimes my fuzzy old brain takes a while to remember who has contributed to these threads and who hasn't if it hasn't been recent.
That said, back to the topics at hand. It sounds to me like the new chassis is going to fall within the range I said I hoped for a few weeks back, I said I felt certain the new ATS chassis would allow a 200 lb. weight reduction, but I was really hoping for a 300-400 lb. reduction and it looks like it will be very close to that.
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If there's no new info the posts tend to get redundant, but the ATS unveil perked up my ears.

I'm sure the Caddy will use the higher grade metals more than the Camaro, but I doubt we're talking more weight than a cute petite chick in the passenger seat would add.

Reuss really towered over the ATS, it's definitely a small platform.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:56 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by MisterCamaro69 View Post
If there's no new info the posts tend to get redundant, but the ATS unveil perked up my ears.

I'm sure the Caddy will use the higher grade metals more than the Camaro, but I doubt we're talking more weight than a cute petite chick in the passenger seat would add.

Reuss really towered over the ATS, it's definitely a small platform.
I found it interesting that the ATS was 182" long, so while a small platform, the body is not tiny.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:11 PM   #31
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I found it interesting that the ATS was 182" long, so while a small platform, the body is not tiny.
Clyde
I haven't compared them but I'm guessing M3-ish size
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:20 PM   #32
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ATS Dimensions (BMW M3 in red)

Exterior
Wheelbase (in / mm): 109.3 / 2775 108.7
Length (in / mm): 182.8 / 4643 181.8
Height (in / mm): 55.9 / 1421 55.6
Width (in / mm): 71.1 / 1805 71.5
Track (in / mm): front: 59.5 / 1512 60.5
rear: 60.9 / 1548 60.5
Curb weight (lb / kg): less than 3,400 / 1,542 (approx.) 3704
Weight distribution (% front / rear): 51 / 49 same
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:34 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
Actually, the current Camaro is not that small, the body "footprint" is close to that of the '69/'70 Chevelle, look at pics of a 5th gen. Camaro next to a 1st gen Camaro, the 5th gen is significantly larger in overall size.
Clyde
I meant that the ATS is smaller than the current Camaro, and that if the next Camaro is not also smaller than the current one, that the extra size compared to the ATS would add weight.

I hope the Camaro follows similar exterior dimensions to the ATS though.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:47 PM   #34
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I meant that the ATS is smaller than the current Camaro, and that if the next Camaro is not also smaller than the current one, that the extra size compared to the ATS would add weight.

I hope the Camaro follows similar exterior dimensions to the ATS though.
I think they'll use the ATS 109" wheelbase for the 6th gen Camaro compared to the 112.3" wheelbase of the current Camaro. While the styling will be different than the ATS, I feel like the 6th gen Camaro body will be similar in size to the ATS dimensions except in height (Camaro will not be as tall). Of course I could be totally wrong, who knows for sure what they will do.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:52 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by wildpaws View Post
I think they'll use the ATS 109" wheelbase for the 6th gen Camaro compared to the 112.3" wheelbase of the current Camaro. While the styling will be different than the ATS, I feel like the 6th gen Camaro body will be similar in size to the ATS dimensions except in height (Camaro will not be as tall). Of course I could be totally wrong, who knows for sure what they will do.
Clyde
I hope you are correct. That would be the ideal size for the Camaro in my opinion. Interior size is going to be more dependent on the wheelbase anyways, so it's not like making the exterior dimensions bigger will make the interior bigger, assuming it keeps the same wheelbase as the ATS.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:54 PM   #36
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who knows for sure what they will do.
Clyde
I'd love to see how far along into the design they are... gotta be some clay models by now
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Old 01-09-2012, 01:30 AM   #37
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I don't think there is much weight to be saved by removing premium content from the ATS when the 6th gen Camaro is made. Why? Well, the much larger CTS shares most of its mechanical bits with the Camaro. But both the V6s and the supercharged V8s tend to be around 100 lbs different, in cars that are very different in size and interior appointments.

And whatever weight might be lost by reducing content can easily be made up again by going with cheaper (and therefore heavier) materials in the Chevrolet. I'd expect that an ATS & a Camaro, with similar powertrain options, will be within about 50 lbs of each other.
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A 5th gen V8 Camaro would likely be closer to 3600+ lbs on the same platform. The only way you get a Z/28 Camaro at 3400 lbs will either be if it is a 4-cylinder, or if it turns out to be a "stripper" model, similar to what Porche does with certain models, where leather, power seats, air conditioning, a radio, most of the sound insulation, and possibly the back seats are deleted in an all out effort to reduce weight, or, some combination of both.
Yeah, a V8 (and a drive train to support it) will easily weigh 200 lbs more than a naturally aspirated 4 cylinder.

I doubt GM would offer an all-out stripper as a Z28. They might, and I'd respect the decision if they did, but for marketability I'd put my money on a much more conventional approach. Even less likely is a 4 cylinder Z28 in the next generation (for the 8th or 9th gen ... who knows). So I'm thinking (as you probably are too) that the chances for a 3400 lb Z28 are slim to nill
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You are partially right, in that I am sure the V8 will weigh more than the I4 in the ATS, however the ATS will have a lot of features as standard equipment that will be options on the Camaro. For all we know, a "stripper" model of an ATS could weigh in at 3200lbs, but since it is a Cadillac and not a Chevy (meaning you can't order it as a stripper model) we will never know.

ATS also will have more glass and two more doors on it. I would imagine doors add weight and I know glass does.

That said, I doubt the aluminum hood would make it on the Camaro, and the magnesium engine mount brackets might not either.

What can be said, with pretty good certainty, is that the next Camaro will be significantly lighter than the current one.

One other thing to think about is how big the Camaro will be compared to the ATS. Same platform, but what about overall length? ATS is about 6 inches shorter than the Gen5, does that mean the Gen6 Camaro will be smaller than the current car? That could add weight as well.
Going from sedan to coupe doesn't change the weight very much. To meet side impact requirements, the door & surrounding structure have to be stronger to compensate for the lack of support in the middle of the car. For example, the CTS-V sedan & CTS-V coupe have a curb weight within about 10 lbs of each other.

Can't even guess on the size of the next gen Camaro from this. Currently, the Camaro rides on a platform that also has sedans with 6" more wheel base & 14" more overall length. So GM builds quite a bit of flexability into their platforms when it comes to size. Will the 6th gen be close to the ATS in size? Probably. But it could easily more or less stay the same size as the current car, but just get about 200 lbs lighter.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:58 AM   #38
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Can't even guess on the size of the next gen Camaro from this. Currently, the Camaro rides on a platform that also has sedans with 6" more wheel base & 14" more overall length. So GM builds quite a bit of flexability into their platforms when it comes to size. Will the 6th gen be close to the ATS in size? Probably. But it could easily more or less stay the same size as the current car, but just get about 200 lbs lighter.
After all the "she's a big gal" chatter when it returned, I'm going to venture a guess that they'll give it the lightweight treatment, at least to an extent. Like the Corvettes upgrade Ti birdcage, they may make some parts with different metals, but it should still come in a lot lighter than it is now.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:36 AM   #39
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Again I'm sayin' 200lbs max savings.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:46 AM   #40
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That said, back to the topics at hand. It sounds to me like the new chassis is going to fall within the range I said I hoped for a few weeks back, I said I felt certain the new ATS chassis would allow a 200 lb. weight reduction, but I was really hoping for a 300-400 lb. reduction and it looks like it will be very close to that.
Clyde
Fen seems to think there could be a V8 in the ATS lineup, so the platform is capable. My fuzzy math says you're probably pretty close @ 300 less.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:52 AM   #41
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Alpha is V8 capable. The ATS-V will have either a TTV6 or a V8 in it. The decision has been made, we just don't know which. Original reports suggested the V8.
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Old 01-09-2012, 10:00 AM   #42
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Alpha is V8 capable. The ATS-V will have either a TTV6 or a V8 in it. The decision has been made, we just don't know which. Original reports suggested the V8.


Just need to make sure they design the Camaro engine bay similar, no matter what engine they use.
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Old 01-09-2012, 04:14 PM   #43
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Is this the platform for a new Z28? Dunno. But it was just shown at the Detroit auto show. Rear Wheel drive! Chevy Code130R

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Old 01-09-2012, 04:19 PM   #44
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Underwhelming, design-wise.

Now the Silver one, OTOH, I kinda like! FWD? Oh well.
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:07 PM   #45
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Is this the platform for a new Z28? Dunno. But it was just shown at the Detroit auto show. Rear Wheel drive! Chevy Code130R

Well, its RWD & has a 109" wheel base (same as the ATS), so my guess is that it is on the Alpha platform -which is the platform for the next gen Camaro.
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:50 PM   #46
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Alpha is V8 capable. The ATS-V will have either a TTV6 or a V8 in it. The decision has been made, we just don't know which. Original reports suggested the V8.
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Just need to make sure they design the Camaro engine bay similar, no matter what engine they use.
I have no worries about the V8. If an I-4 and a DOHC V-6 will fit in it, a cam-in-block V-8 certainly will, at least dimensionally. The I-4 would be just a long, and the DOHC V-6 is probably just as wide, and definitely taller. If GM can get a small block V-8 sideways into an Impala, surely they can get it into anything RWD.
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Old 01-09-2012, 05:57 PM   #47
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God, I hope it's not the "style" of one. It reminds me of various 50s-60s-70s Bristols with their cabs that weren't really congruent with their bodies.

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Old 01-09-2012, 06:22 PM   #48
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I could see some of the front end on the 130R concept carrying over to the next Camaro, and I like it pretty well (the front that is, not the rest).
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:31 PM   #49
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From Jalopnik - their comments on it:


Code 130R, the first Chevrolet concept, is a four-seat coupe that seriously looks like a Camaro that made love to a Mazda RX-7 that had already made love to a 1 Series that was the illegitimate child of a Dodge Neon. We're not saying the design is derivative so much as it is a collage that when combined provides a completely underwhelming design for their perception of America's future.
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Old 01-09-2012, 06:47 PM   #50
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From Jalopnik - their comments on it:


Code 130R, the first Chevrolet concept, is a four-seat coupe that seriously looks like a Camaro that made love to a Mazda RX-7 that had already made love to a 1 Series that was the illegitimate child of a Dodge Neon. We're not saying the design is derivative so much as it is a collage that when combined provides a completely underwhelming design for their perception of America's future.
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