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Old 01-13-2012, 08:04 AM   #103
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The LT1 is the designation for first of the new Gen V small blocks. Its not to be confused with the LT1 from the mid 90's. Which reminds me ...

GM needs to extend the length of time engine codes are retired. 15 years, give or take, simply isn't long enough.
They should have called it the LR1. Keep the order going (90s LT, 00s, LS, 10s, LR, 20s, LQ).

Sorry, this is just how my brain works.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:10 AM   #104
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What engine are you assuming is going to be in that 3400 lb ATS? Odds are, it will be the 200 hp 2.5L ecotec. It might be the 2.0 turbo at 270 hp. Probably won't be a V6 at that weight. And won't be a V8.

Power to weight ratio says that neither of the 4 bangers should be faster than a V6 Camaro, let alone the SS. Even a V6 ATS won't match an SS unless its a turbocharged ATS-V (if they go such a route for that car). And an ATS-V, I suspect, would start somewhere north of $50k if its a turbo6 or NA V8.

I don't think Camaro owners need to be too worried.
If theV6 ats weighs 3500 lbs. it will be quicker accelerating than the gen5 Camaro.
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:12 AM   #105
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So lets have a little fun with numbers shall we: (won't be perfectly accurate I know, but close enough I guess)

2010 Camaro V6: 3750/312 = 12.02 lb/hp
2012 Camaro V6: 3750/323 = 11.61 lb/hp
2010 Camaro SS: 3850/426 = 9.04 lb/hp

2013 Cadillac ATS 2.0TT: 3350/270 = 12.4 lb/hp
2013 Cadillac ATS V6: 3450/318 = 10.85 lb/hp
2013 Cadillac ATS-V V6TT: 3550/400 = 8.88 lb/hp

2015 Camaro V6: 3450/323 = 10.68 lb/hp
2015 Camaro SS: 3550/420 = 8.45 lb/hp

For grins: 2011 Mustang 5.0: 3620/412 = 8.78 lb/hp


What about TQ figures??

2010 Camaro V6: 3750/278 = 13.49 lb/tq
2010 Camaro SS: 3850/420 = 9.12 lb/tq

2013 Cadillac ATS 2.0TT: 3350/260 = 12.89 lb/tq
2013 Cadillac ATS V6: 3450/278 = 12.4 lb/tq
2013 Cadillac ATS-V V6TT: 3550/400 = 8.88 lb/htq

2015 Camaro V6: 3450/278 = 12.4 lb/tq
2015 Camaro SS: 3550/400 = 8.87 lb/tq

2011 Mustang 5.0: 3620/390 = 9.2 lb/tq

Makes you think. Of course some of the numbers above are assumed, but anyone who follows the TT builds for the current 3.6 know that hitting 400 crank horsepower is nothing, so really this lb/hp number could be much less...and the TQ down low would be tremendous with the TT setup. Of couse, if they do fit a DIV8 in there, it would be just as exciting.

The 2015 SS could easily be made to hit that 'magical' 8lbs per hp number, and the V6 could also easily dip down into the 9s.

Wow, I think when the day comes we see the next gen Camaro, and if it is as exciting to look at as the 5th Gen, I may just have to make the switch! (never thought I'd say that). Hope it comes in a nice blue!
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Old 01-13-2012, 01:06 PM   #106
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Re: ATS V6

ONE power-to-weight ratio has been divulged by GM: 10.8:1 (10.8 lb/hp)

THREE V6 hp figures have been given, variously: 315, 318, 320

Therefore the RANGE of Curb Weights would be 3402 to 3456, and you can be sure that 10.8 number is for the least-equipped varient (NOT that any ATS will be a "stripper"). And that varient may have smaller wheels and tires than a "performance" model would dictate. Etc. Think "pedestrian" rather than "performance". In fact, for the ATS to directly compete on PRICE with the Cs and the 3s and the A4s and the ISs, there may be a cloth or non-leather unheated trim version... So, if we compare the "magic" 10.8 version, it may compare to either a 1LT or 2LT current Camaro, equipment-wise.

V6 minus 50 lb = Turbo 4
Turbo 4 minus at least 50 lbs = 4 cylinder

No one is saying, yet, what the actual dressed weight of an LT1 V8 is likely to be. Lighter than an LS3 would be a guess, but were it the same:

V6 + 75 lb = V8 is "ballpark", especially considering increaded-capacity driveline required for 400+ hp and likely equal tq rating.

The EXISTING weight difference for 2012 V6 Camaro vs. Camaro SS is comparing a 1LS to a 1SS...which apparently is about 119 lb according to GM AutoBook.
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Old 01-13-2012, 03:13 PM   #107
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I'm still saying 3,600+ lbs for a 6th Gen V8 Camaro. Clyde I've volleyed?
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:39 PM   #108
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I'm still saying 3,600+ lbs for a 6th Gen V8 Camaro. Clyde I've volleyed?
Go for it! I've quoted and added/subtracted the relevant numbers from GM as well as current 5th gen cars, obviously you and I have different opinions about the outcome and we likely see different things affecting the final outcome. And I'm not about to continue this part of the topic as a running argument, you have your opinion and I have mine, and GM likely has a different opinion than either of us. The 6th gen Camaro will weigh what it weighs and we won't really know all the facts until GM announces them.
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Old 01-13-2012, 08:43 PM   #109
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Amen my ZBrother!
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Old 01-13-2012, 09:11 PM   #110
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Go for it! I've quoted and added/subtracted the relevant numbers from GM as well as current 5th gen cars, obviously you and I have different opinions about the outcome and we likely see different things affecting the final outcome. And I'm not about to continue this part of the topic as a running argument, you have your opinion and I have mine, and GM likely has a different opinion than either of us. The 6th gen Camaro will weigh what it weighs and we won't really know all the facts until GM announces them.
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Old 01-13-2012, 10:32 PM   #111
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302S? Thats a striped out spec series racer. Don't even bother comparing it to real production
Ford produces the 302S right beside the 302. What is GM building alongside the camaro? A 4300 lb turd with a blower on it. i get that a turn key race car isn't on GM's radar... GM performance division is focused on the Vette I guess.... there's just not enough money in pursuing the Z28

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Old 01-14-2012, 09:34 AM   #112
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Speaking of respectful debate...
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:12 PM   #113
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Ah, civilized discussion & respectful disagreement. Symptoms of a happy forum.
Uh what does turd mean?
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Old 01-14-2012, 02:37 PM   #114
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Uh what does turd mean?
Comes 'tween "2nd" and "fort"...
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Old 01-14-2012, 08:36 PM   #115
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I laughed out loud thanks!!!
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Old 01-14-2012, 09:49 PM   #116
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http://www.chevyhardcore.com/news/gm...han-the-vette/

Interesting, not sure if this has been on the forum.
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:11 PM   #117
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Comes 'tween "2nd" and "fort"...

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http://www.chevyhardcore.com/news/gm...han-the-vette/

Interesting, not sure if this has been on the forum.
I wonder if they're talking about making the fabric faster, or molding it faster? Interesting read.
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:35 PM   #118
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http://www.chevyhardcore.com/news/gm...han-the-vette/

Interesting, not sure if this has been on the forum.
I think the story it was posted up a while ago, maybe not that particular article, but the GM partnership to make more carbon fibre was ... I think
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I wonder if they're talking about making the fabric faster, or molding it faster? Interesting read.
I would assume molding. Thats what slows down mass production.
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Old 01-15-2012, 01:10 PM   #119
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Yes I believe it was speeding up the actual "manufacturing" of the part, fender, door, roof, etc. I would think producing the fabric is like making any other textile.
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