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Old 01-08-2012, 04:23 PM   #1
shines
 
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Disappointed with my Twin Turbo setup, need help!

So, about 2 months back I was tired of dealing with SC belt slip issues, I decided to switch from a Whipple SC to a Hellion Twin Turbo kit. I'm not sure I've made a worse decision in my life

After installing the kit I had serious turbo oiling issues, they smoked bad. Turbonetics said oil restrictors should not be needed while Hellion was telling me the opposite. I tried a number of different size restrictors until finally I was able to get the smoking stopped.

Now that the smoke has stopped, the oil warning light included with the Hellion kit continually blinks. They said so long as it's not on constantly, it's no problem. That's easy for them to say, they don't have a bright red light flashing in their eyes when driving after dark.

Anyway, about a month ago I started working on the tune, I was able to get it running fairly well and pulled 715rwhp on the dyno with 11lbs of boost.

Then last weekend I decided to try a top speed run (deserted country road). So, I run it up to 6K rpm in 4th gear and felt an intermittent hesitation. Same thing in 5th gear only worse. Also, during the hesitation I could hear a popping noise that sounds almost like a backfire through the intake manifold.

I thought it might be knocking from a bad tank of 93, so I hooked up HP Tuners and scanned it. No knock retard at all, in fact there's really nothing in the scan that indicates the hesitation. Although the MAF line was pretty erratic.

I removed the MAF sensor and it litterally had oil dripping from it, I presume from when the turbo's had too much oil, it not only got blown in to the exhaust (i.e., smoke) but also the intake piping, including the heat exchanger .

I cleaned the MAF but the hesitation is still there.

At this point I'm guessing it's,

1) The eBoost boost controller causing the waste gates to pop open then closed.
2) A bad wastegate
3) Turbulance within the intake tube


FYI,

The motor is a built 416 stroker built by Livernois with the Janetty "Rough Idle" blower cam running at 9.7:1 compression. I'm also running a Victor Junior intake manifold with an Edelbrock EFI "hat".
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Old 01-08-2012, 04:35 PM   #2
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When you did your WOT run,Did you also logged the AFR ?
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Old 01-08-2012, 05:49 PM   #3
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Should have kept the whipple lol!! Hope everything works out for you.
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:06 PM   #4
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Exclamation Turbos

Shines I thought they were fixed
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:24 PM   #5
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Do you have a catch can? What are you doing about crank case pressure? Get a 3 bar map and tune with it if you havent already. My guess is if you getting oil on the maf something isnt placed right or you have some pcv issues or turbo seals are gone.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:56 PM   #6
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Turbo seals relating back to the restrictor issues
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:58 PM   #7
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Have you wiped the inside of your intake tubing? Was it coated in oil? If your MAF sensor was dripping, then you have oil throughout the charge side and in your intercooler. Until the oil is all cleaned out from the entire charge side of the system, you'll have this issue.

You may have comprised the MAF sensor. I've had this happen before. Clean my oil soaked MAF, but it still didn't work right. Put a new MAF in and all was good.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:58 PM   #8
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When you did your WOT run,Did you also logged the AFR ?
I did, it was between 11.0 to 11.5:1, which is where I have it configured.
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Old 01-08-2012, 07:59 PM   #9
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Should have kept the whipple lol!! Hope everything works out for you.
Says the guy with a Whipple....smart ass
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:00 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by JLE58 View Post
Do you have a catch can? What are you doing about crank case pressure? Get a 3 bar map and tune with it if you havent already. My guess is if you getting oil on the maf something isnt placed right or you have some pcv issues or turbo seals are gone.
Yea, I've got the RX can for turbos/remote mount SC's
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:02 PM   #11
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So its not smoking anymore right?
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:04 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by 14pilot View Post
Have you wiped the inside of your intake tubing? Was it coated in oil? If your MAF sensor was dripping, then you have oil throughout the charge side and in your intercooler. Until the oil is all cleaned out from the entire charge side of the system, you'll have this issue.
I've only cleaned the tubes leading from the heat exchanger, a complete disassembly is required to get the others
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:05 PM   #13
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So its not smoking anymore right?
Right, no smoke. But I guess oil could stiil be getting blown into the compressor side. The turbonetics turbos I have are ceramic ball bearing and from what I understand only the compressor side of the shaft uses the ceramic bearing, the exhaust side is the traditional oil/fluid bearing.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:13 PM   #14
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I dont know maybe... I would be check the pcv system with the catch can. Not sure how yours is set up but my guess is something isnt right right with it.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:13 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I've only cleaned the tubes leading from the heat exchanger, a complete disassembly is required to get the others
Sorry, its a bitch. I know first hand...

Gotta get that intercooler cleaned out too or the oil film in it will severely reduce its ability to cool the charge air. Monitor your IATs and you can see how the oil film works against you. In summer it will be much worse.

First things, first. Are you sure that you have no more oil entering into the charge tubing from the turbos? A test clean out of the piping closest to the turbo, followed by some boosting around, followed by another test cleaning of the same charge pipe wall will tell you.

Lots of soap and grime in your future. Feel for you...
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:51 PM   #16
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Sorry, its a bitch. I know first hand...

Gotta get that intercooler cleaned out too or the oil film in it will severely reduce its ability to cool the charge air. Monitor your IATs and you can see how the oil film works against you. In summer it will be much worse.

First things, first. Are you sure that you have no more oil entering into the charge tubing from the turbos? A test clean out of the piping closest to the turbo, followed by some boosting around, followed by another test cleaning of the same charge pipe wall will tell you.

Lots of soap and grime in your future. Feel for you...
Yea, I know. I'm debating whether to go through all that or ditch the turbo setup all together and go back the Whipple.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:52 PM   #17
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Shines I thought they were fixed
Me too after the smoking stopped. This problem is far less obvious to fix.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:53 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 14pilot View Post
Sorry, its a bitch. I know first hand...

Gotta get that intercooler cleaned out too or the oil film in it will severely reduce its ability to cool the charge air. Monitor your IATs and you can see how the oil film works against you. In summer it will be much worse.

First things, first. Are you sure that you have no more oil entering into the charge tubing from the turbos? A test clean out of the piping closest to the turbo, followed by some boosting around, followed by another test cleaning of the same charge pipe wall will tell you.

Lots of soap and grime in your future. Feel for you...
Are you saying this because of the kit he has or turbos in general? Cause a Correct set up will not have theses problems.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:57 PM   #19
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Are you saying this because of the kit he has or turbos in general? Cause a Correct set up will not have theses problems.
Guess it doesn't matter which. The entire charge air side of the system is coated inside with oil from the turbos. Any turbo is capable of losing a seal and passing oil on into the charge air. Any kit that has too much oil entering the CHRA is capable of letting oil get by the seals. Poorly designed kit? Bad seals? IDK which it is. I do know that its a major PITA to clean it up.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:15 PM   #20
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I wouldnt be so sure its the turbos or the system like i said would check the PCV system turbo cars are nothing like N/a you willl be fighting oil issue's forever if you do not address this with a correct system.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:15 PM   #21
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Are you saying this because of the kit he has or turbos in general? Cause a Correct set up will not have theses problems.
I'm not knocking Hellion here, they've done their part to help. The problem with turbo systems, in general, is getting the system setup correctly to begin with. Since they depend on oil and sometimes coolant from the engine no one configuration will work "out of the box" for every car. For example, my car has a high volume oil pump which the Hellion system wasn't designed to handle out of the box.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:17 PM   #22
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Most systems like yours run restrictors I dont understand why they dont just put them in there and why turbonetics said you didnt need it.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:17 PM   #23
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I wouldnt be so sure its the turbos or the system like i said would check the PCV system turbo cars are nothing like N/a you willl be fighting oil issue's forever if you do not address this with a correct system.
If you saw the amount of oil I'm talking about here you'd know it's not a PVC issue. We're not talking a few droplets here.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:18 PM   #24
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Most systems like yours run restrictors I dont understand why they dont just put them in there and why turbonetics said you didnt need it.
exactly what I told Hellion.
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Old 01-08-2012, 09:19 PM   #25
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well if you dont have a check valve in the system at all or would that isnt working when the car is in boost it will suck a ton of oil up believe me.
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