TX front license plate law removed (Law still in place - need two plates)

[jmaynard]

Originally Posted by ratroddave

Case WON There is not a city or state law that reguries you to have a front plate anymore as of the first of Jan. 2012/ The law simple states there must be (A) Plate on the vech to operate on public roads (A) is the key in this. It payed off NO COST ALL WAS TROW OUT. But I do have to pay my attorney o well.

I think That The state of Texas should be worried more about education and are young ones then focus on such a lame law.

Congrats. And I agree. Some laws are just silly, and this is one of them.

[Dave2SSRS]

Just got pulled over today by a state trooper who had nothing better to do. He ran my plate just because. He had no reason to. I asked him "So why did you run my plate to begin with" all he could say is "Why do you think I ran it?" I actually said, "because of the car"... he laughed and told me "I'm not a motor head". I nearly said "exactly" but restrained myself.

He saw a previous warning for no front plate from 2010. I wondered why he gassed it (unsafely) just to get in front of me. He said "Texas is a two plate state"... I told him I had read that something got left off a bill in the January session...blahblah. Of course big bad state trooper was having none of that.

He wrote me a warning... this is the second one. I am sure a ticket is next. Can't wait to fight it in court. Thank you Trooper T. Radford Jr. for making my day that much better. I sincerely hope you got off on pulling me over for a BS reason. He couldn't even tell me why a front license plate was required other than "It's the law". LOL!

I'm sorry for the rant.. I do respect most law enforcement. Just not these aholes that have nothing better to do than screw with us for BS reasons. Absolutely no harm came from me not having a front license plate. These toopers are from my area and know my car... Most are REALLY cool guys... however, I will now be profiled on a daily basis, I expect. The buddy system is always in full effect with law enforcement.

So I say to you Trooper Radford Jr., I hope you enjoy pulling me over today. You should spend more time checking big rigs hauling drugs or "in tow" vehicles heading to Mexico.

Am I off base here? Curious...

[jmaynard]

Well, seeing the post above, all I have to say is thank you State Trooper who did not pull me over when I gunned my Camaro to pass that slow truck coming up the ramp. He had me dead to rights as I was doing over 80 in a 70. I slowed down and he just let me pass by. I guess it's all in how you do it.

[Dave2SSRS]

Originally Posted by jmaynard

Well, seeing the post above, all I have to say is thank you State Trooper who did not pull me over when I gunned my Camaro to pass that slow truck coming up the ramp. He had me dead to rights as I was doing over 80 in a 70. I slowed down and he just let me pass by. I guess it's all in how you do it.

Agreed... most are cool when it comes to stuff like that, what happened to me was just ridiculous.

[GatorUSMC]

Originally Posted by Dave2SSRS

Am I off base here? Curious...

I'm not sure what else you wanted him to explain to you beyond it's a violation of the transportation code. The side of the road is no place to have an argument. You're not going to change each other's mind so if you disagree the place to go is before a neutral party.

I don't have a front plate on my car because I think it's damn ugly. The price I pay is giving them probable cause to pull me over at any time.

He only gave you a warning so I doubt he was that much of an "arse". For the same reason, I doubt he was screwing with you either. Most likely he was fishing. You gave him pc to pull you over, he took a look at what was in plain sight in your car, got a feel for you, saw no reason to ask for consent to search and left. Maybe he was just balancing out his racial profiling stats, who knows.

[Dave2SSRS]

Originally Posted by GatorUSMC

You gave him pc to pull you over, he took a look at what was in plain sight in your car, got a feel for you, saw no reason to ask for consent to search and left. Maybe he was just balancing out his racial profiling stats, who knows.

I see your point as well. Oh well... I've moved on. Being mad about it accomplishes nothing.

[Autobot]

Originally Posted by clg_98ta

So what happened? Did the DA drop the case, or did you actually go to court and get a judgement? If you got a judgement, we need to get a copy and post it here. I would think that that would be enough to get a case dropped in the event one of us gets a ticket.

Oh, and congrats

Yeah a copy would be nice.

[TAG UR IT]

For everyone else reading this, I started to check into the law with some folks down at the court.

I read my new traffic book.

There are several sections pertaining to license plates. The most important part to remember is that it DOES state that you need two plates. It ALSO states the fines for both plates...and having a front plate.

Under specialty plates (front plate) it does NOT have the penalty fee for no front plate. That, to me, made it look like for normal plates you have to have both but for specialty plates, you could get away without having the front one since there was no fine. I asked prosecutors about this and he said he'd have to look it up. When I asked about placement of the front plate, he said case law states it has to be on the furtherst most point of the vehicle. Basically, the front bumper.

So, yes. There IS a law on the books which DOES state you need both AND there is a penalty. FYI...

Originally Posted by Dave2SSRS

Just got pulled over today by a state trooper who had nothing better to do. He ran my plate just because. He had no reason to. I asked him "So why did you run my plate to begin with" all he could say is "Why do you think I ran it?" I actually said, "because of the car"... he laughed and told me "I'm not a motor head". I nearly said "exactly" but restrained myself.

He saw a previous warning for no front plate from 2010. I wondered why he gassed it (unsafely) just to get in front of me. He said "Texas is a two plate state"... I told him I had read that something got left off a bill in the January session...blahblah. Of course big bad state trooper was having none of that.

He wrote me a warning... this is the second one. I am sure a ticket is next. Can't wait to fight it in court. Thank you Trooper T. Radford Jr. for making my day that much better. I sincerely hope you got off on pulling me over for a BS reason. He couldn't even tell me why a front license plate was required other than "It's the law". LOL!

I'm sorry for the rant.. I do respect most law enforcement. Just not these aholes that have nothing better to do than screw with us for BS reasons. Absolutely no harm came from me not having a front license plate. These toopers are from my area and know my car... Most are REALLY cool guys... however, I will now be profiled on a daily basis, I expect. The buddy system is always in full effect with law enforcement.

So I say to you Trooper Radford Jr., I hope you enjoy pulling me over today. You should spend more time checking big rigs hauling drugs or "in tow" vehicles heading to Mexico.

Am I off base here? Curious...

Yes.


First,...

This is not to try to entice an argument. Let me start there.

Second,...

It's not the officers responsibility to explain why laws exist.

It's the officers responsibility to enforce laws put in place by OUR state legislators. If you want to complain about a law, complain about the legislators that came up with the law...not the officers who are doing their job enforcing their laws. It is not supposed to be up to LEO's on what we enforce. We are supposed to be fair across the board. Luckily, officers are granted discretion in writing citations (and in your case, I would say that's a pretty d@mn good thing we are).

However, you ask why the "BS law?" We have two plates for several reasons. The most important reason is to be able to identify the vehicle from either the front or the back. If someone backs in to commit a robbery and they take off the front plate, they aren't going to stop when they take off giving us PC to stop the vehicle. If it's a stolen car on the highway and you are behind me, how am I going to run the car while I'm in front of you (me looking back) if there's no plate? I use front plates all the time and run them all the time.

We don't need a reason to run a plate. NO PC is required to run a plate. How do we randomly find stolen vehicles? We run plates. How do we find people with warrants driving around? We randomly run plates. How do we find suspect vehicles involved in crimes? We randomly run plates. Saying we have to have PC to run a plate is a null and void argument. I'm not sure why people think this.

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument. It's a law. And, believe it or not, while I know it's a law, I don't have a plate either. Whatever. If WE get pulled over and get a ticket, WE have to deal with the consequences. For the record, I've never written a ticket for no front plate. But, I've used the no front plate as PC for a stop many, many times. And, you wouldn't believe some of the stuff we come across over such a "BS law."


And one last note, please be careful of the venting. While venting is okay, we also have site rules which prevent LEO bashing. Officers, as a whole are good people who try to do a good job. I could give you statistics of officers vs other professions on who has more issues, but that would get into politics and that would also spark another debate which wouldn't go well (and we have no politics rules as well to prevent us from going at each other). yes, we all know some officers are on a power trip and are bad. But, 99.99% of them truly care about what they do. You met a nice guy. He gave you a warning. remember, you can be cited....and think if it's worth your time to have to go to court.

Originally Posted by Dave2SSRS

I see your point as well. Oh well... I've moved on. Being mad about it accomplishes nothing.

Very true.

You did get lucky.

We are not out to write everybody. Some officers are....but there's a lot of us looking for the big fish. We are not bad people because we have a job to do. I'm glad it worked out in your case.

[TAG UR IT]

Got some yard work to do...but I'll look in my transportation code and give y'all the TRC's so you can look them up and see what I mean.

[Autobot]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

For everyone else reading this, I started to check into the law with some folks down at the court.

I read my new traffic book.

There are several sections pertaining to license plates. The most important part to remember is that it DOES state that you need two plates. It ALSO states the fines for both plates...and having a front plate.

Under specialty plates (front plate) it does NOT have the penalty fee for no front plate. That, to me, made it look like for normal plates you have to have both but for specialty plates, you could get away without having the front one since there was no fine. I asked prosecutors about this and he said he'd have to look it up. When I asked about placement of the front plate, he said case law states it has to be on the furtherst most point of the vehicle. Basically, the front bumper.

So, yes. There IS a law on the books which DOES state you need both AND there is a penalty. FYI...


Yes.


First,...

This is not to try to entice an argument. Let me start there.

Second,...

It's not the officers responsibility to explain why laws exist.

It's the officers responsibility to enforce laws put in place by OUR state legislators. If you want to complain about a law, complain about the legislators that came up with the law...not the officers who are doing their job enforcing their laws. It is not supposed to be up to LEO's on what we enforce. We are supposed to be fair across the board. Luckily, officers are granted discretion in writing citations (and in your case, I would say that's a pretty d@mn good thing we are).

However, you ask why the "BS law?" We have two plates for several reasons. The most important reason is to be able to identify the vehicle from either the front or the back. If someone backs in to commit a robbery and they take off the front plate, they aren't going to stop when they take off giving us PC to stop the vehicle. If it's a stolen car on the highway and you are behind me, how am I going to run the car while I'm in front of you (me looking back) if there's no plate? I use front plates all the time and run them all the time.

We don't need a reason to run a plate. NO PC is required to run a plate. How do we randomly find stolen vehicles? We run plates. How do we find people with warrants driving around? We randomly run plates. How do we find suspect vehicles involved in crimes? We randomly run plates. Saying we have to have PC to run a plate is a null and void argument. I'm not sure why people think this.

Again, I'm not trying to start an argument. It's a law. And, believe it or not, while I know it's a law, I don't have a plate either. Whatever. If WE get pulled over and get a ticket, WE have to deal with the consequences. For the record, I've never written a ticket for no front plate. But, I've used the no front plate as PC for a stop many, many times. And, you wouldn't believe some of the stuff we come across over such a "BS law."


And one last note, please be careful of the venting. While venting is okay, we also have site rules which prevent LEO bashing. Officers, as a whole are good people who try to do a good job. I could give you statistics of officers vs other professions on who has more issues, but that would get into politics and that would also spark another debate which wouldn't go well (and we have no politics rules as well to prevent us from going at each other). yes, we all know some officers are on a power trip and are bad. But, 99.99% of them truly care about what they do. You met a nice guy. He gave you a warning. remember, you can be cited....and think if it's worth your time to have to go to court.


Very true.

You did get lucky.

We are not out to write everybody. Some officers are....but there's a lot of us looking for the big fish. We are not bad people because we have a job to do. I'm glad it worked out in your case.

Thank you Tag your it,
I have personalized 7 character plates, would that qualify as a specialty plate?

[hot_rod]

>>>Under specialty plates (front plate) it does NOT have the penalty fee for no front plate. That, to me, made it look like for normal plates you have to have both but for specialty plates, you could get away without having the front one since there was no fine. I asked prosecutors about this and he said he'd have to look it up.

Tag - is a "specialty plate" and a personalized plate the same thing?

[Autobot]

Originally Posted by wullger

Glad I went with the JacFab option! Now I can just pop that little bracket off and have a clean front bumper again, with no holes.

Nice find, guys!

Yeah I really one one of the bent ones but he has not yet made one that will work with GFX.
I have been emailing him but he cant find anyone local to him that has a Camaro with GFX so he can take the measurements to fabricate one.

[TAG UR IT]

Originally Posted by Autobot

Thank you Tag your it,
I have personalized 7 character plates, would that qualify as a specialty plate?

Originally Posted by hot_rod

>>>Under specialty plates (front plate) it does NOT have the penalty fee for no front plate. That, to me, made it look like for normal plates you have to have both but for specialty plates, you could get away without having the front one since there was no fine. I asked prosecutors about this and he said he'd have to look it up.

Tag - is a "specialty plate" and a personalized plate the same thing?

That's a question I didn't think about.

Dang...

Let me put the kids to bed and I'll look it up again. I think it meant "personalized." Regardless, the other law might trump this one.

Give me a few and I'll go back and find it.

[TAG UR IT]

Ok. I did some reading. And, if there are any attorneys that want to chime in, by all means....

First off, the license plate law was made in 1934 (the necessity of two plates) and has never changed. The traffic code has been amended many times over the years but this law has not changed....nor will it anytime soon.

There is a catch all in this (before moving on). Read 502.401 where it states that if it doesn't specifically state the penalty, then it's basically a class c if labeled an offense. That pretty much sums up any mess ups.

Chapter 502 was basically split up to 502 and 504 to differentiate between license plates and registration....part of their recent reorganization of the code. They are basically the same thing, but cover different wordings.

TRC 502.404 plainly states that vehicles are required to have two plates, front and rear, and plainly describes penalties for the offense (class c not to exceed $200). It's there...black and white and is NOT arguable.

Moving on....

We get to 504.943. THIS is the reworded law that does not contain the intended words, "class c misdemeanor punishable by a fine not to exceed $200." The words are there in the original copy submitted for publication, but they were not printed. So... You still need two plates.

The Code Construction Act provides that in construing a statute a court may consider,
among other matters, the object sought to be attained, circumstances under which the
statute was enacted, legislative history, common law or former statutory provisions
(including laws on the same or similar subjects), consequences of a particular
construction, administrative construction of the statute, title (caption), preamble, and
emergency provision.

Long story short, you need to have two plates and the penalties are there. No if's and's or buts about it. If you want to argue a citation and go to court, the court will win. Case law, and the following link will explain it all.

Please. Feel free to read.

https://www.oag.state.tx.us/opinions...f/RQ1014GA.pdf

[JUISSD]

The law is retarded IMO and I'll never run a front plate on my Camaro, or any of my "toy" cars. I know the consequences for doing so and I just deal with it as it comes.

[hot_rod]

Tag - thanks for taking the time to look that stuff up and post it.

Clear as mud.....

>> If you want to argue a citation and go to court, the court will win. Case law, and the following link will explain it all.

But.... ratroddave did take it to court and he won, Post #87

josephff posted that link (#53) before and in post #57 I asked if it was a valid reference......, and I still don't know if it is.

like I said clear as mud.....

[Chrisrp454]

I believe specialty plates means like the classic plates you get for classic cars.
Like if the car is 1956 and you register as a classic with a plate from/like 1956.

[hot_rod]

Originally Posted by Chrisrp454

I believe specialty plates means like the classic plates you get for classic cars.
Like if the car is 1956 and you register as a classic with a plate from/like 1956.

Yep, that's what I was thinking.

until I went to the TXDMV website and started trying to figure it out.....

http://www.txdmv.gov/vehicles/license_plates/faq.htm

Note the first two questions seem to say there is a difference between personalized and speciality plates. A couple of other spots on their web site seem to do the same thing.

Even from the ordering page: https://rts.texasonline.state.tx.us/...teOrderServlet

.. both of them take ya to the myplates.com to order...

geez....the DMV seems to be trying to say there is a difference but I don't get it?

[josephff]

Long story short, you need to have two plates and the penalties are there. No if's and's or buts about it. If you want to argue a citation and go to court, the court will win. Case law, and the following link will explain it all.

Please. Feel free to read.

so dave going to court and getting it dismissed does not apply here? Just saying.

[josephff]

that letter that you linked to TAG was already discussed on the first couple pages of this thread and is indeed an OPINION only. Also worth mentioning is that it was written in October of last year and there is yet to be any changes or special sessions called. So that alone says how much hold the opinion had. IMO

The only thing that you could assume is the presumption of the Penal Code Penalties as they pass down. Which is a good point to look at. However reality has overridden that principle with the dismissal of ratroddave's case.

[cowjazz]

Originally Posted by Chrisrp454

I believe specialty plates means like the classic plates you get for classic cars.
Like if the car is 1956 and you register as a classic with a plate from/like 1956.

I think you are spot on. I registered my Corvette as an antique vehicle, and was only issued one plate.

[TAG UR IT]

Ok. I didn't read the whole thread.

Did he go to trial or was the case dismissed when he got there.

We dismiss tons of cases because officers forgot about the incident, Judges didn't want to go through the hassle of a trial, officer didn't show up for the ticket, mistake on the ticket itself, etc etc.

W/out going all the way back, was there a full blown trial??

[josephff]

Originally Posted by TAG UR IT

Ok. I didn't read the whole thread.

Did he go to trial or was the case dismissed when he got there.

We dismiss tons of cases because officers forgot about the incident, Judges didn't want to go through the hassle of a trial, officer didn't show up for the ticket, mistake on the ticket itself, etc etc.

W/out going all the way back, was there a full blown trial??

Case WON There is not a city or state law that reguries you to have a front plate anymore as of the first of Jan. 2012/ The law simple states there must be (A) Plate on the vech to operate on public roads (A) is the key in this. It payed off NO COST ALL WAS TROW OUT. But I do have to pay my attorney o well.

I think That The state of Texas should be worried more about education and are young ones then focus on such a lame law.

not sure of any details other than this...

[Vanchevy]

No it was not a full trail in my understanding the DA drop the case and it was and is dismissed with that being said the court gave me a copy of the law in this regard and it simply states there must be (A) plate on the car to operate on public roads And that is what my attorney was fighting this case with but they dismissed before a trail. And yes there was and is a plate on it.

[Vanchevy]

Will get copy and post when I get home (Writing on hand)