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Old 01-17-2012, 07:40 PM   #26
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May not feel the difference, but you can watch the other guy go by you! Football is a game of inches, muscle cars are a game of seconds (tenths in this case).
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May not feel the difference, but you can watch the other guy go by you! Football is a game of inches, muscle cars are a game of seconds...
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:04 AM   #27
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FE4

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And for Camaro fans without the requisite $54,995 for a ZL1, that character trickles down to SS coupes for 2012 with the standard FE4 suspension, which revises the front and rear dampers and specs new antiroll bars to address the terminal-understeer issue that made the Camaro feel so unwilling when driven hard.
First time I've seen any mention anywhere of what the FE4 may do for the 2012. Good to see, as I'm days away from taking delivery... so I guess I'll see soon enough!
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Old 01-18-2012, 07:32 AM   #28
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I don't believe the ZL1 was built with the quarter mile only in mind. It's a bad ass track car and with a set of slicks and someone that knows what to do it will also be a very good daily driver drag car. Like others have said if your buying the ZL1 to drag well then your doing massive overkill.
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Old 01-18-2012, 09:50 AM   #29
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First time I've seen any mention anywhere of what the FE4 may do for the 2012. Good to see, as I'm days away from taking delivery... so I guess I'll see soon enough!
I've been trying to keep my eyes open for '12 reviews, too! Ultimately - if I were to get an SS instead, these changes wouldn't matter too much (because I'd go through all the bushings front to back and new sway bars, too), but it would be nice to get comparisons. I'm sure there's still going to be understeer for safety, but hopefully these are effective. There were many changes that we were told of with FE4.

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I don't believe the ZL1 was built with the quarter mile only in mind. It's a bad ass track car and with a set of slicks and someone that knows what to do it will also be a very good daily driver drag car. Like others have said if your buying the ZL1 to drag well then your doing massive overkill.
WORD. There are many SSs people here have mod'd to surpass ZL1 in nearly all respects. If you set the rear up good, I'm not sure ZL1 is right for strictly drag strip racing. There's so much more that's not being appreciated
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Old 01-19-2012, 05:50 PM   #30
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Den318; I see all of your points on the Zl1 and its performance. I thought the ZL1 was going to have crazy track and strip numbers(Most guys on here thought the 1/4 would be in the 11s and 0 to 60 better than CTS-V). After reading all the reviews it seems the ZL1 is mainly a track car. I know GM wants the Camaro to be a world class car in all areas, and it is. I guess I am old school and want to leave the track stuff to the Vett and the euro/asian cars. To me Challegers, Mustangs, Firebirds, and the Camaro are straight line cars. Again most people who want a race car buy the Vett or something from Europe or Japan. I love the Camaro I don't care if the interior is cheap or it weighs 10 tons, but I am a Fanboy always have been always will be. I just kinda wish GM would stop trying to turn beer into wine with the Camaro, and give me a Camaro that will kick the crap out of the mustang in a straight line!
TRACK CAR not really. I thought GM was talking about losing weight, instead of adding pounds ?????????

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Old 01-19-2012, 09:57 PM   #31
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WOW!!!......Highly disappointed times at the track I must say!! I was expecting atleast a 119mph trap speed and very close to an 11.99 considering 4 mags tested it. 12.3-12.6 is hardly anything to brag about. The current GT500 and this car will be a drivers race. The new GT500 wont be a race at all. To be honest this car isnt running much faster/quicker than the 392's, and theyre down 110hp and weigh more. I mean even bone stock 392's have ran 12.2 @ 115mph.

Edit: Just read MT got a 12.1 @ 119. Thats about what I expected. Does it amaze me? No. Is it an all around impressive car? Id have to say yes!
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Old 01-20-2012, 08:55 AM   #32
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WOW!!!......Highly disappointed times at the track I must say!! I was expecting atleast a 119mph trap speed and very close to an 11.99 considering 4 mags tested it. 12.3-12.6 is hardly anything to brag about. The current GT500 and this car will be a drivers race. The new GT500 wont be a race at all. To be honest this car isnt running much faster/quicker than the 392's, and theyre down 110hp and weigh more. I mean even bone stock 392's have ran 12.2 @ 115mph.

Edit: Just read MT got a 12.1 @ 119. Thats about what I expected. Does it amaze me? No. Is it an all around impressive car? Id have to say yes!
What were the conditions of these tests? I wonder how similar they were the conditions these were under...
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:21 AM   #33
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What were the conditions of these tests? I wonder how similar they were the conditions these were under...
Absolutely Radz, as I recall temps were cool to cold...with altitude involved. Honestly, lets get 'em out on the track with warm temps, warm tires, and warm track conditions and see. Huge difference one will see...
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Old 01-20-2012, 09:22 AM   #34
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Absolutely Radz, as I recall temps were cool to cold...with altitude involved. Honestly, lets get 'em out on the track with warm temps, warm tires, and warm track conditions and see. Huge difference one will see...


People wonder why we don't get information for so long... Jumping to conclusions never happens...
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:42 AM   #35
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What were the conditions of these tests? I wonder how similar they were the conditions these were under...
the boss was run on the same day and it ran typical boss numbers (despite being at an elevation disadvantage) so 117mph traps seem like a reasonable number for the zl1. that is roughly 4mph more than a typical srt8 runs at the track.
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Old 01-20-2012, 10:58 AM   #36
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Absolutely Radz, as I recall temps were cool to cold...with altitude involved. Honestly, lets get 'em out on the track with warm temps, warm tires, and warm track conditions and see. Huge difference one will see...
For ideal performance, one doesn't want the air temperature to be too warm, as engine performance will suffer. Cool dense air is desirable. The ideal air temperature for engine performance is probably between 45 and 60 degrees F. Temperatures any colder than 45 degrees F will make it difficult for the tires to hook. A sunny day will help warm the track surface.

A high barometric pressure also helps improve performance, and low humidity is also desired. When the Density Altitude is 0 feet or less, the conditions are very favorable.

And, of course, proper track preparation is essential as well.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:03 AM   #37
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For ideal performance, one doesn't want the air temperature to be too warm, as engine performance will suffer. Cool dense air is desirable. The ideal air temperature for engine performance is probably between 45 and 60 degrees F. Temperatures any colder than 45 degrees F will make it difficult for the tires to hook. A sunny day will help warm the track surface.

A high barometric pressure also helps improve performance, and low humidity is also desired. When the Density Altitude is 0 feet or less, the conditions are very favorable.

And, of course, proper track preparation is essential as well.
true. Not only that, they said it was cold on testing day, so the trap speeds (indicator of HP to the wheels) attained that day are what you should expect in the "real world", especially since the boss ran typical numbers.
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Old 01-20-2012, 11:50 AM   #38
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For ideal performance, one doesn't want the air temperature to be too warm, as engine performance will suffer. Cool dense air is desirable. The ideal air temperature for engine performance is probably between 45 and 60 degrees F. Temperatures any colder than 45 degrees F will make it difficult for the tires to hook. A sunny day will help warm the track surface.

A high barometric pressure also helps improve performance, and low humidity is also desired. When the Density Altitude is 0 feet or less, the conditions are very favorable.

And, of course, proper track preparation is essential as well.
I think it was like 44 degrees. And we don't know what time of day it was and if the tires had been warmed up at all. Yeah, my experience has always been that cold fresh air was better than hot air for engine performance! Combustion is much improved with more oxygen and less humidity! Ever try lighting a damp match? LOL

More tests shall come. I respect the Boss for it's intended purpose. It just so happens that the ZL1 suits many more purposes and does all well! Superbly as a matter of "reported fact.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:10 PM   #39
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How is the ZL1 not a drag strip car it runs a 12, whats the difference between a 11.8 and a 12, 2 tenths of a second, when your driving it can you feel the difference?
I'd like to know where the hard data is that the 13 GT500 is a 11 second car bone stock, can somebody show me the data test, or are the fanbois speculating like they did with the 11 GT500 which the best Motortrend could get it to run was 12:40s. Now the stang fanbois will run here saying the M/T is not accurate, the driver was a joke . But when M/T runs 12:10 with the ZL1 well that is, the best the car will ever do.

Lets see what actually hits the streets in 13 GT500 trim, lets see what the price tag on it is, lets see if they have solved the traction issues the car has had since inception, lets see one run 11s in stock trim reported by somebody other than MMFF or the other stang cheerleaders. Better yet lets see what it will do against an auto equipped ZL1

For now what we do know is MT has run the ZL1 to 12:10, and the 11/12 GT500 to 12:40. We know the ZL1 spanked the Boss around the road coarse and that the Boss also ran 12:40 in the 1/4.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:25 PM   #40
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I'd like to know where the hard data is that the 13 GT500 is a 11 second car bone stock, can somebody show me the data test, or are the fanbois speculating like they did with the 11 GT500 which the best Motortrend could get it to run was 12:40s. Now the stang fanbois will run here saying the M/T is not accurate, the driver was a joke . But when M/T runs 12:10 with the ZL1 well that is, the best the car will ever do.

Lets see what actually hits the streets in 13 GT500 trim, lets see what the price tag on it is, lets see if they have solved the traction issues the car has had since inception, lets see one run 11s in stock trim reported by somebody other than MMFF or the other stang cheerleaders. Better yet lets see what it will do against an auto equipped ZL1

For now what we do know is MT has run the ZL1 to 12:10, and the 11/12 GT500 to 12:40. We know the ZL1 spanked the Boss around the road coarse and that the Boss also ran 12:40 in the 1/4.
the ZL1 was driven by a professional driver that ran a good time with the boss as well. The boss run was typical of what you see out of private owners so its safe to say the ZL1 will probably run what it did in private owners hands. Private owners are already running similar times and same or faster MPH's (trap speeds) as the ZL1 with the 2010-2011 550hp GT500's
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:28 PM   #41
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the boss was run on the same day and it ran typical boss numbers (despite being at an elevation disadvantage) so 117mph traps seem like a reasonable number for the zl1. that is roughly 4mph more than a typical srt8 runs at the track.
I'm not sure how my opinions on it's performance are any different than yours, and what it's potential times are - unless you've tested ZL1... I that case, I respectfully withdraw my comment. I didn't know there were any other tests where a "reasonable" number had been established.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:33 PM   #42
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For ideal performance, one doesn't want the air temperature to be too warm, as engine performance will suffer. Cool dense air is desirable. The ideal air temperature for engine performance is probably between 45 and 60 degrees F. Temperatures any colder than 45 degrees F will make it difficult for the tires to hook. A sunny day will help warm the track surface.

A high barometric pressure also helps improve performance, and low humidity is also desired. When the Density Altitude is 0 feet or less, the conditions are very favorable.

And, of course, proper track preparation is essential as well.
Preaching to choir there Bear, I did alot of drag and street racing when I was much younger...I won't bore anyone about anecdotal knowledge or personal experience. I for one fully understand what favorable conditions can do for, or hinder a performance car from doing. My comments were directed about the time of year, weather conditions, and location of the "test". They should also test the car(s) under more optimal conditions which will give a fair balance between cold and warm operating, weather, and subsequent track conditions. The numbers will vary widely.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:35 PM   #43
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Preaching to choir there Bear, I did alot of drag and street racing when I was much younger...I won't bore anyone about anecdotal knowledge or personal experience. I for one fully understand what favorable conditions can do for, or hinder a performance car from doing. My comments were directed about the time of year, weather conditions, and location of the "test". They should also test the car(s) under more optimal conditions which will give a fair balance between cold and warm operating, weather, and subsequent track conditions. The numbers will vary widely.
BINGO!!! I think it was more to sell magazines and ads than anything to run this test, because many of us will now spend more money with conditions are better for more representative testing. That's fine, and I'll spend the money, lol.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:37 PM   #44
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the ZL1 was driven by a professional driver that ran a good time with the boss as well. The boss run was typical of what you see out of private owners so its safe to say the ZL1 will probably run what it did in private owners hands. Private owners are already running similar times and same or faster MPH's (trap speeds) as the ZL1 with the 2010-2011 550hp GT500's
And your arguement is that we can't trust the M/T 11/12 GT500 times, but we can trust the 12 ZL1 M/T times? Just trying to understand the SVTPerformance gangs take on this.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:41 PM   #45
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And your arguement is that we can't trust the M/T 11/12 GT500 times, but we can trust the 12 ZL1 M/T times? Just trying to understand the SVTPerformance gangs take on this.
You will not win this argument just give your first born to the Ford gods.
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Old 01-20-2012, 12:44 PM   #46
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They should also test the car(s) under more optimal conditions which will give a fair balance between cold and warm operating, weather, and subsequent track conditions. The numbers will vary widely.
Yes, and when comparing vehicles, which should be done at the same venue at the same time under the same conditions, what's really significant are the relative numbers of the vehicles rather than the absolute numbers of each vehicle, as those absolute numbers will vary from venue to venue, from day to day, depending on conditions.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:04 PM   #47
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Yes, and when comparing vehicles, which should be done at the same venue at the same time under the same conditions, what's really significant are the relative numbers of the vehicles rather than the absolute numbers of each vehicle, as those absolute numbers will vary from venue to venue, from day to day, depending on conditions.
Exactly what I've been saying,The boss numbers provide a good gauge to judge the zl1s numbers.
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Old 01-20-2012, 01:22 PM   #48
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Exactly what I've been saying,The boss numbers provide a good gauge to judge the zl1s numbers.
So... two completely different cars, on two different tires, weighing totally different is somehow something we can extrapolate from? I'm not seeing something...
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:07 PM   #49
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BINGO!!! I think it was more to sell magazines and ads than anything to run this test, because many of us will now spend more money with conditions are better for more representative testing. That's fine, and I'll spend the money, lol.

I think the bottom line (who wins) won't change much. Times will improve however for ZL1, and I PREDICT WE WILL SEE SOME STOCK ZL1's getting in the 11's. Especially the AUTOMATICS (not to make it an argument). It is just "DESIGNED WITH A PURPOSE IN MIND".... and that always helps!

I do have one question that I'd like to have answered.

GM TOUTS and ENCOURAGES DRAG racing and ROAD Course RACING. In some of the same commercials/ads they TOUT the warranty.

? Will GM void warranty's on those who they see testing their car, say at CFEST3? Will actually using the car for the purpose for which it was designed, be HELD AGAINST the owner? (Like taking down plate numbers or registration entries for the contests we participate in at Cfest).
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Old 01-21-2012, 07:15 PM   #50
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So... two completely different cars, on two different tires, weighing totally different is somehow something we can extrapolate from? I'm not seeing something...
lets just clarify so that i understand what im responding to or if their is some misunderstanding. so the road racing results are valid and applicable to other tracks and okay to extrapolate but the 1/4 mile results arent??
the conditions were good and the boss 1/4 times show that he can at least run the quarter well enough, as well as typical drivers youd see on the net. why is it unsafe to say that the ZL1 times arent accurate? Im sure people will hit 11's and im sure people out there will see the boss numbers stay within 3 tenths or so of it as well. there will be people out there running a lil faster than these posted numbers in their ZL1's just as there are people out there running their Boss's faster (especially the boss trap speeds). (Being at elevation hurt the boss's power output more than the ZL1)
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