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Old 04-24-2009, 10:27 AM   #1
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Dishonest Tuners

If you are thinking of sending your new Camaro to a tuner for some extra power please go ahead and google that tuners name. I am and always have been a Camaro freak. So please be sure before you send your car to any tuner to research his companies name and check for lawsuits. Ask as many people as possible about their reputation. Some sites will let tuners operate their scams if they become a paying vendor. To me that is the same thing as giving a crook the key to your home. Be careful with your hard earned money and enjoy the new F-body.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:36 AM   #2
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thanks for the heads up
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:39 AM   #3
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Locals only for my goodies. I allready know the guy who will work on mine. Billy Baine. I've seen his work and talkedto him. VERY good at what he does.
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:42 AM   #4
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Would that be known as the "Hennessy Principle?"
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Old 04-24-2009, 10:59 AM   #5
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It is my opinion that you should never get a car tuned without a dyno. There might be a good tune out there, but some cars have kinks that need to be worked out when tuning. Not every car responds to the same tune in the same way. This can be due to the climate, elevation, or driving history of the car. In any case, it is important to treat each car in its own unique way.

I also feel that name brands have something more to uphold than local shops. As a result, I will probably be taking my Camaro to someone big.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:03 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RichieFlorida View Post
If you are thinking of sending your new Camaro to a tuner for some extra power please go ahead and google that tuners name. I am and always have been a Camaro freak. So please be sure before you send your car to any tuner to research his companies name and check for lawsuits. Ask as many people as possible about their reputation. Some sites will let tuners operate their scams if they become a paying vendor. To me that is the same thing as giving a crook the key to your home. Be careful with your hard earned money and enjoy the new F-body.
Not too far from you is Mike Norris Motorsports. He has a chassis dyno and has a great reputation for LS motors. Not a big name, but great abilities.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:03 AM   #7
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Think we could start a "Tuner Feedback" thread? Who are the good recommended tuners in each state? Good dyno facilities, etc.? Names, contact info, etc.?

I was looking at some places in Michigan. Livernois was one that popped up and I've seen mixed reviews. I guess they have a badass garage, so to afford that kind of setup I would think they must be doing something right. Not sure though, I've never dealt with them.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:04 AM   #8
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Hope you know the local GM Service Warranty Rep...Very Well....You will void your engine, trans, and rear end warranty...Dealers will be looking for this..
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:07 AM   #9
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Hope you know the local GM Service Warranty Rep...Very Well....You will void your engine, trans, and rear end warranty...Dealers will be looking for this..
Magnusson Moss Act. Not sure if I spelled that correctly. Unless they can prove that an aftermarket part or tune caused a failure they cannot void your warranty. I've had this issue with a SeaDoo dealer, asked them about it and they hushed up.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:08 AM   #10
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Hope you know the local GM Service Warranty Rep...Very Well....You will void your engine, trans, and rear end warranty...Dealers will be looking for this..
Pretty sure most everyone who plans on doing something like this already knows that and doesn't care. If you run a good mild tune there should be zero issues from the car.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:10 AM   #11
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Happy to say, Tom Henry Racing, 15 miles away.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:11 AM   #12
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Would that be known as the "Hennessy Principle?"
He's an interesting example - if all you do is check out his businesses on the Better Business Bureau website, he comes up squeaky clean. You don't find the real dirt on him until you do some serious forum crawling.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:11 AM   #13
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Would that be known as the "Hennessy Principle?"
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:14 AM   #14
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He's an interesting example - if all you do is check out his businesses on the Better Business Bureau website, he comes up squeaky clean. You don't find the real dirt on him until you do some serious forum crawling.
That is interesting. I definitely would have though that would NOT be the case from the stories I've heard.
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Old 04-24-2009, 11:29 AM   #15
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Locals only for my goodies. I allready know the guy who will work on mine. Billy Baine. I've seen his work and talkedto him. VERY good at what he does.


Bay State Garage down in West Dennis for me. His name is Bill too (also like me, haha). He's had the opportunity to screw me over HARDCORE many times on my '97 F150 and '98 Mountaineer, and never has.

Local ftw!
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by MontyCarlo View Post
He's an interesting example - if all you do is check out his businesses on the Better Business Bureau website, he comes up squeaky clean. You don't find the real dirt on him until you do some serious forum crawling.
Not really, just google "hennessy lawsuits".
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:21 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The_Blur View Post
It is my opinion that you should never get a car tuned without a dyno. There might be a good tune out there, but some cars have kinks that need to be worked out when tuning. Not every car responds to the same tune in the same way. This can be due to the climate, elevation, or driving history of the car. In any case, it is important to treat each car in its own unique way.

I also feel that name brands have something more to uphold than local shops. As a result, I will probably be taking my Camaro to someone big.
just remember that a big name doesn't necessarily imply a good job will be done on your car... for instance, MTI in Houston was one of the biggest LSx shops in the US for about a 5 year stretch... and I have personally fixed at least three of their tunes... and those tunes were done on a DynoJet dyno at the MTI shop... sometimes things get busy and those big shops will rush a bit on one car to make another car they know is going to be difficult get finished before close of business.

and there are things that you can get a tuner to do that dont require a dyno... tuning out the speed limiter, removing CAGS, recalibrating the speedometer for bigger wheels and deleting torque management are all things that can be done to a car that will not require a dyno.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:22 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by GM-REX View Post
Magnusson Moss Act. Not sure if I spelled that correctly. Unless they can prove that an aftermarket part or tune caused a failure they cannot void your warranty.
Close...Magnuson-Moss.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuson-Moss_Warranty_Act

They can't void your warranty no matter what, but they can deny a specific claim, if they can reasonably argue that your modification directly caused the problem. The warranty remains in effect. In reality, it could get messy if they want to blame your modifications and don't want to cover you. You gotta pay to play and risking your warranty is part of modifying a brand new car.
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Old 04-24-2009, 12:52 PM   #19
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http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/s...p?t=622&page=6

I love post number 53 and the response in post 54
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Old 04-24-2009, 01:06 PM   #20
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Old 04-24-2009, 03:06 PM   #21
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Magnusson Moss Act. Not sure if I spelled that correctly. Unless they can prove that an aftermarket part or tune caused a failure they cannot void your warranty. I've had this issue with a SeaDoo dealer, asked them about it and they hushed up.
Ummmm...I think you need to examine GM's warranty very carefully. Also, the Magnusson Moss Act is not worth the paper its printed on as it is full of "loop holes." In the "real world," YOU have to prove that the aftermarket addition or replacement did not cause the failure.

The following relevant material was posted over at smokinvette.com

If GM finds an aftermarket tune (and they are instructed to look, and if they look I promise you they will find it) it will void your Powertrain warranty. GM has adopted a very strict position on aftermarket tunes. If your car has anything but the factory calibrations and they find it, kiss your powertrain warranty goodbye. Real simple, you want to play, you have to be prepared to pay.

Here is an excerpt from GM's instructions to dealers on aftermarket tunes:

Here is GM's official position on aftermarket software changes.

#PIP4386: Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations - 2.0 2.2 2.4 2.8 2.9 3.0 3.1 3.2 3.4 3.5 3.6 3.8 3.9 4.2 4.3 4.4 4.6 4.8 5.0 5.3 5.7 6.0 6.2 7.0 7.4 8.1 - (Apr 8, 2008)


Subject: Identifying Aftermarket Engine Calibrations


Models: 2005-2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks

except Pontiac Vibe, Chevy Aveo, and All Saab Models




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The following diagnosis might be helpful if the vehicle exhibits the symptom(s) described in this PI.

Condition/Concern:
A dealer may have the need to verify engine calibrations. If a dealer feels an aftermarket power-up calibration has induced engine and/or drive train damage, there is now a way to verify what calibration is currently in the vehicle.

If a suspicious hard part failure is observed in the engine, transmission, transfer case, or driveline, perform the calibration verification described to determine if a non GM issued engine calibration is installed. Non GM issued engine calibrations subject driveline components to stresses different than those that these components were validated to. Repairs to transmission, transfer case and / or other driveline components where a non GM engine calibration has been verified, are not covered under the terms of the New Vehicle Warranty.

Recommendation/Instructions:
Instructions for confirming Calibration Verification Number (CVN)
• Go to TIS2WEB

• Select Calibration Information (SPS Info)

• Enter VIN

• Select "Get Cal ID"

• Select ECM Engine Control Module

• Hit "next"

• Select "Complete History"

• Print

Take Printout to Vehicle along with Tech II
• Plug in Tech II

• Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle

• Select Powertrain

• Select the engine

• Select F0 - Engine Control Module

• Select F4/F5 - I/M information System / Module ID information*

• Select F1

• Compare the calibration ID and Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) to the Calibration Verification Numbers (CVN) on the printout.

* This step may vary by controller; use the Module ID Information in the Engine Controls.

Although the part numbers will be the same for each, it's the CVN that will determine if the calibration is GM issued.

If ALL of the CVN's are EXACTLY the same, the calibration is GM issued.

If the part numbers match and ANY calibration verification numbers (CVN's) do not match the printout, it is likely that a non GM certified calibration has been installed.

In order to document the case - a CLEAR digital picture should be taken of the TECH 2 screen showing the VIN and the CVN's that do not match the TIS2WEB printout. The picture and a PDF copy of the TIS2WEB printout should be forwarded to ***email edited***@GM.com for verification along with the VIN and the reason the vehicle is currently in for service. Please copy your GM Area Service Manager (DVM/DSM) on the e-mail. GM will verify if the CVN's are not GM issued and respond via e-mail within 48 hours.

If both the Part numbers and the CVN are different, photograph the part numbers and CVN's on the tech 2 screen as described above, assuring the VIN shows clearly in the photograph of the TECH2 screen, and check to see if the vehicle has the latest released calibration. If the latest released calibration is not installed in the vehicle, the part numbers will not match , and the CVN's won't either. E- mail the original Part Numbers and CVN's found in the vehicle on the TECH 2 to: ***email edited out ***@GM.com to check if the calibration and CVN matches a previous release. Recalibrate with the latest released cal and re-check against the part numbers and CVN's that are released.


Please follow this diagnostic or repair process thoroughly and complete each step. If the condition exhibited is resolved without completing every step, the remaining steps do not need to be performed.
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Old 04-24-2009, 03:46 PM   #22
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Anybody know any reputable shops in Houston, TX?
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:13 PM   #23
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Hey don't badmouth Hennessy, or he will come on here and say you masturbate in the shower and beat your wife, and then threaten to sue you for slander.

I say this because thats what he did here: http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=622 its a good read from start to finish
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:31 PM   #24
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Hey don't badmouth Hennessy, or he will come on here and say you masturbate in the shower and beat your wife, and then threaten to sue you for slander.

I say this because thats what he did here: http://www.cherokeesrt8.com/forums/showthread.php?t=622 its a good read from start to finish
That's hilarious.
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Old 04-24-2009, 04:45 PM   #25
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Any work I get done on any camaro will be done by rpm in garner nc. They have the record holder trail blazer ss. Or at least did a year ago. Who knows now. And everyone I know with an ls1 or ls something engine goes to them.

They are the shit.
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