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Old 01-30-2012, 09:08 PM   #1
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Suspension Upgraded - Still have wheelhop

Last spring I upgraded my suspension. Overall I am very happy with the result. The car tracks like on rails and the understeer is completely gone. I have had my SS to the race track and it made a hero out of me with only a few hours of practice.

But I still have wheel hop. With TC off if I launch it with some spin or even punch it moving in first I get the bounce as the tires break loose. It is definitely not as bad as stock, but still there.

I have the stock alignment, tires and wheels, and no lowering springs.

From BMR I installed:
  • Cradle and differential Pro bushing kit
  • Trailing Arms
  • Toe rods
  • End link mounting braces
  • Front and rear sway bars with end links

A local reputable shop performed the installation

I am not knocking the BMR hardware as many others have cured their wheel-hop with less BMR parts.

What's missing? Or?
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Old 01-30-2012, 09:31 PM   #2
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did you install their trailing arm bushings and their toe rod bushings?
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:00 PM   #3
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did you install their trailing arm bushings and their toe rod bushings?
I think they came with them. But you know, I did not check. Will do tomorrow.
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Old 01-30-2012, 10:33 PM   #4
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Stock alignment as in not redone since installation or redone to factory specs? Copy of it?
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Old 01-30-2012, 11:24 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
Last spring I upgraded my suspension. Overall I am very happy with the result. The car tracks like on rails and the understeer is completely gone. I have had my SS to the race track and it made a hero out of me with only a few hours of practice.

But I still have wheel hop. With TC off if I launch it with some spin or even punch it moving in first I get the bounce as the tires break loose. It is definitely not as bad as stock, but still there.

I have the stock alignment, tires and wheels, and no lowering springs.

From BMR I installed:
  • Cradle and differential Pro bushing kit
  • Trailing Arms
  • Toe rods
  • End link mounting braces
  • Front and rear sway bars with end links

A local reputable shop performed the installation

I am not knocking the BMR hardware as many others have cured their wheel-hop with less BMR parts.

What's missing? Or?
Your alignment sheet is missing. Please post the alignment specifications after all these parts were installed.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:27 AM   #6
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I would make sure that you did the rear trailing arm bushings and if not, definitely replace those. These are the bushings that install in the aluminum upright (spindle) out at the wheel. It is a relatively cheap mod but it makes a big difference. Also, as mentioned above, alignment is important as well. If you lowered the cradle to install Cradle bushings plus had the toe rods and trailing arms off the car without getting an alignment, chances are that your toe is probably out of spec. I would put a good performance street alignment on it, replace those outer trailing arm bushings, then play a little with tire pressure until you get the hop out of the car. You have the majority of it covered, just a few more tweaks and you'll be there!

HERE is a link to our spring instructions which has our recommended alignment specs included. And just in case you need them, the part number for the outer trailing arm bushings is BK006.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:50 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synner View Post
Stock alignment as in not redone since installation or redone to factory specs? Copy of it?
Redone to factory specs.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:51 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post
Your alignment sheet is missing. Please post the alignment specifications after all these parts were installed.
realigned to factory specs.
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:56 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMR guy View Post
I would make sure that you did the rear trailing arm bushings and if not, definitely replace those. These are the bushings that install in the aluminum upright (spindle) out at the wheel. It is a relatively cheap mod but it makes a big difference. Also, as mentioned above, alignment is important as well. If you lowered the cradle to install Cradle bushings plus had the toe rods and trailing arms off the car without getting an alignment, chances are that your toe is probably out of spec. I would put a good performance street alignment on it, replace those outer trailing arm bushings, then play a little with tire pressure until you get the hop out of the car. You have the majority of it covered, just a few more tweaks and you'll be there!

HERE is a link to our spring instructions which has our recommended alignment specs included. And just in case you need them, the part number for the outer trailing arm bushings is BK006.
I thought the trailing arms and toe rods came with poly bushings. I did not do the install. I did get a stock alignment.

If not can I do these bushings myself? Are the toe rod bushings needed?

Any tips on finding a good alignment shop that can handle a custom alignment?
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:03 PM   #10
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I thought the trailing arms and toe rods came with poly bushings.
The BMR rear trailing arms do not include the outer bushings.
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Old 01-31-2012, 07:09 PM   #11
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Quote:
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The BMR rear trailing arms do not include the outer bushings.
News! Maybe that explains it. What about inners?
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:32 PM   #12
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Been looking at the BMR site. I see now what I am missing. So I will get BK006 outer training arm bushings. Is it also worth doing the BK017 upper control Arm bushings? I will follow this up with a performance alignment.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:45 PM   #13
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"stock" alignment is a rather wide range and inconsistent from side to side on the car. Upper control arm isn't really necessary and would require dropping the cradle for install just as an FYI.
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:51 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Synner View Post
"stock" alignment is a rather wide range and inconsistent from side to side on the car. Upper control arm isn't really necessary and would require dropping the cradle for install just as an FYI.


Synner is right. The OEM alignment specs are loose. We need to know what the rear cambers and toes are set to before we through parts at the problem. Not that I mind people throwing parts at the problem, we make money when we sell parts for throwing

Please get your alignment sheet and post it up.
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JusticePete View Post


Synner is right. The OEM alignment specs are loose. We need to know what the rear cambers and toes are set to before we through parts at the problem. Not that I mind people throwing parts at the problem, we make money when we sell parts for throwing

Please get your alignment sheet and post it up.
Don't have it. But next time I will pay more attention to the alignment and use the spec advice from here. I have been doing some reading since my last post and I am of the opinion now that my wheel hop problem may be due partially to alignment and partially by the rubbery stock outer trailing arm bushings. I might as well do those before I bother with the alignment.

While i am at it I will turn my attention to the front of the car to finish my suspension upgrade. I will do my research this time to figure out how to improve steering response.

I know lighter tires and wheels will help but i don't want to spend that much right now.

And I also will be looking for a tunnel brace with additional clearance so I can get rid of those washers. Is a Camaro ever really finished?
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:20 PM   #16
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What wheel and tire are you running at the track??? I have more power with less suspesion mods and very little issues with wheel hop!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
Don't have it. But next time I will pay more attention to the alignment and use the spec advice from here. I have been doing some reading since my last post and I am of the opinion now that my wheel hop problem may be due partially to alignment and partially by the rubbery stock outer trailing arm bushings. I might as well do those before I bother with the alignment.

While i am at it I will turn my attention to the front of the car to finish my suspension upgrade. I will do my research this time to figure out how to improve steering response.

I know lighter tires and wheels will help but i don't want to spend that much right now.

And I also will be looking for a tunnel brace with additional clearance so I can get rid of those washers. Is a Camaro ever really finished?
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Old 01-31-2012, 10:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
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Don't have it. But next time I will pay more attention to the alignment and use the spec advice from here. I have been doing some reading since my last post and I am of the opinion now that my wheel hop problem may be due partially to alignment and partially by the rubbery stock outer trailing arm bushings. I might as well do those before I bother with the alignment.

Replacing the knuckle bush for the trailing arm won't hurt anything, but I am not sure it is necessary.


While i am at it I will turn my attention to the front of the car to finish my suspension upgrade. I will do my research this time to figure out how to improve steering response.

This is cake and more predictable than wheel hop. Add a set of EP6579 radius bush inserts and tweak the front alignment.

Camber: -.75
Toe: ZERO it out

Drive away from the alignment shop with a good on center feel and much improved turn in.


I know lighter tires and wheels will help but i don't want to spend that much right now.

It would, but we should be able to get her settled down with them.

And I also will be looking for a tunnel brace with additional clearance so I can get rid of those washers. Is a Camaro ever really finished?



No.


My notes are in Pedders RED.
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Old 02-01-2012, 08:53 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
News! Maybe that explains it. What about inners?
The outer trailing arm bushing will definitely help you out. The toe rods don't have any additional busihngs since they mount directly to the rear cradle and the spindle.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraxum View Post
Been looking at the BMR site. I see now what I am missing. So I will get BK006 outer training arm bushings. Is it also worth doing the BK017 upper control Arm bushings? I will follow this up with a performance alignment.
Those two bushings will definitely help you out some as well as a good performance alignment. There are many variables that go into wheel hop so many times it takes more than the parts you have to cure wheel hop on the manual cars. What tires are you running? under what conditions does the wheel hop occur?
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:02 PM   #19
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Quote:
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The outer trailing arm bushing will definitely help you out. The toe rods don't have any additional busihngs since they mount directly to the rear cradle and the spindle.



Those two bushings will definitely help you out some as well as a good performance alignment. There are many variables that go into wheel hop so many times it takes more than the parts you have to cure wheel hop on the manual cars. What tires are you running? under what conditions does the wheel hop occur?
Stock tires and wheels. I want to cure my hop before I go to the track. I experimented trying to launch from a stop and also just by punching it while just moving. It happens when it was warmer last summer and now 50-60 degrees out on a clean tarmac surface.

By the way does your center tunnel brace have any additional clearance over the stock unit?

Also would you any additional recommendations fro the front besides what Justice Pete mentioned?
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:04 PM   #20
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My notes are in Pedders RED.
Hey, thanks for your help and taking the time to sort out my rambling. I really love a good handling car and this one is getting close.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
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What wheel and tire are you running at the track??? I have more power with less suspesion mods and very little issues with wheel hop!
Stock wheels and tires for now. Maybe DRs later after the wheel hop is cured or at least under control. I have had a number of mods done. Not the right combo for my car yet.

Maybe it's me.
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Old 02-02-2012, 10:14 PM   #22
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Hey, thanks for your help and taking the time to sort out my rambling. I really love a good handling car and this one is getting close.
So while you are tweaking her, you are lusting for a 1LE Z/28. Now we know what is causing your wheel hop. She is
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Old 02-03-2012, 08:47 AM   #23
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Stock tires and wheels. I want to cure my hop before I go to the track. I experimented trying to launch from a stop and also just by punching it while just moving. It happens when it was warmer last summer and now 50-60 degrees out on a clean tarmac surface.

By the way does your center tunnel brace have any additional clearance over the stock unit?

Also would you any additional recommendations fro the front besides what Justice Pete mentioned?
A good set of tires will really help out with the wheel hop also. The stock tires don't do anything to make the wheel hop any better.

Our tunnel brace does give a little additional clearance and if you needed more clearance you could always space it down a little bit.

I would definitely recommend doing the radius rod bushings and even the lower control arm bushing if it was in the budget. We like to run a little more negative camber than he is recommending but either way will work.
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Old 02-07-2012, 09:17 PM   #24
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So while you are tweaking her, you are lusting for a 1LE Z/28. Now we know what is causing your wheel hop. She is
Sorry this thread is a little old. But that was funny. I just can't help myself. I am such a slut.
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Old 04-16-2012, 07:20 PM   #25
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Followup. I finally put those Outer Trailing Arm bushings on.

Good results. Wheelhop gone. The car hooks much better. And the little bit of step-out is also gone. Straight as an arrow.
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