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Old 09-16-2014, 08:14 AM   #1
mrshanes
 
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Auto insurance for HPDE day

I have my first track day coming up on 9/27 at Pittsburgh Race Complex. Just out of curiosity, I dug out my insurance file to look up exclusions. The following verbage is listed under exclusions for liability, medical payments, and physical damage:

"...this section does not apply to any claim or suit for damages if one or more of the exclusions listed below applies.
...

To bodily injury or property damage caused by an auto driven in or preparing for any racing, speed or demolition contest or stunting activity of any nature, whether or not prearranged or organized."


So, would the insurance company consider HPDE a racing or speed contest? It isn't timed, but it is on a track. I hate to call and ask them because I'm afraid they would cancel me for even asking. What does everyone think?
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:38 AM   #2
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First thing I want to say is don't count on the internet for the right answer for this one. We can all see the language and share our opinions, but the only opinions that matter are the insurance company's, and then a court, insurance commissioner or arbitrator if it gets to that.

That language to me looks like an HPDE should be covered (again, my opinion only). It is not a race or speed contest, but a driver improvement event. I don't see how they could deny you coverage at an HPDE with that language. Very unusual in this day and age to have this language. My insurance company had language like that, but updated it several years ago to include any event at a race track, period. Is that the most recent policy you are looking at?

Good luck, and hopefully you never need to find out if you were covered.

EDIT: Just realized that was the exclusion for damage your car causes to others, not damage to your car. There should be other language on collision/comp damage to your car.
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:46 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by z28lt1 View Post
EDIT: Just realized that was the exclusion for damage your car causes to others, not damage to your car. There should be other language on collision/comp damage to your car.
The physical damage section includes collision and damage to my car. This is my latest policy.
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Old 09-16-2014, 08:49 AM   #4
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Some HPDE's are considered Driving Improvement Courses and actually some Insurance Companies offer discounts for such classes. I would certainly call my Insurance, as the worse that could happen is they tell you no.
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Old 09-16-2014, 09:45 AM   #5
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Some HPDE's are considered Driving Improvement Courses and actually some Insurance Companies offer discounts for such classes. I would certainly call my Insurance, as the worse that could happen is they tell you no.
From what I've read, the worst that can happen is that they drop your coverage immediately for even inquiring. They assume you are "racing" and that if you do it on a track, you'll certainly do it illegally on the street which is a huge liability for them. I've found several instances written about it online. That's why I'm afraid to even ask.
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Old 09-16-2014, 10:32 AM   #6
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Most insurance companies will not cover you for an HPDE hence why there are places like lockton that sell track insurance.
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Old 09-16-2014, 11:56 AM   #7
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From what I've read, the worst that can happen is that they drop your coverage immediately for even inquiring. They assume you are "racing" and that if you do it on a track, you'll certainly do it illegally on the street which is a huge liability for them. I've found several instances written about it online. That's why I'm afraid to even ask.
Just call up and don't give your name.
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Old 09-16-2014, 12:43 PM   #8
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I've seen multiple people have incidents at HPDEs and they have all ended having it covered by insurance. Technically it's a school, not a race. Worse case tow it out and park it against the wall on the interstate LOL
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Old 09-16-2014, 03:44 PM   #9
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I've seen multiple people have incidents at HPDEs and they have all ended having it covered by insurance.
And then probably had their rates jacked through the roof.
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Old 09-21-2014, 08:22 AM   #10
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Check out ontrackinsurance.com if you are really worried about it. I have done a few track days that I didn't get this and had no problems, but I am getting it this next track day at NCM just to be on the safe side. The cost is around $300 for $50,000 in coverage with a $2,500 deductible I think.
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:42 AM   #11
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Just call up and don't give your name.
Block your phone number or call from a number not registered to you. USAA knows it's me even from an unlisted blocked number...
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Old 09-25-2014, 02:38 PM   #12
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Hopefully not to late for input (knowing its just day's away)... Just hit-up Lockton. Don't even chance that (god forbid) something happens and you attempt to use your regular insurance company. That ends up being a total gamble, most likely resulting in at-best they cover you...then drop you. (Piece of mind going with someone that specializes in it. I've also heard that should you actually need to recover, Lockton is great to deal with, no-hassles).
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Old 09-25-2014, 04:03 PM   #13
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Just google the question. You may get an insurance company agent that can give you a better answer than the novices in this forum.
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:43 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by benji276289 View Post
Just google the question. You may get an insurance company agent that can give you a better answer than the novices in this forum.
The problem is the answers are all over the place no matter where you look. His best bet is to call his insurance company or send his policy over to a lawyer to review for an answer.
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Old 09-25-2014, 08:58 PM   #15
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OnTrackInsurance.com
866-638-0505

Worth it to me, mechanical failure, other driver mistakes, worse case you take a rental car home and order a new one.
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:19 PM   #16
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I would certainly call my Insurance, as the worse that could happen is they tell you no.
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Old 09-25-2014, 09:48 PM   #17
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I'm an instructor with PCA and have taken my Cayman S to Sebring for almost as long as I've had her. I would highly recommend that you seriously look at an insurance firm that is specifically for HPDE. When I switched from Progressive for my "standard" insurance I was very specific on asking the insurance agents for a copy of the policies BEFORE I signed up, trying to get coverage for my track time. Farmers insurance was very blunt in saying that they would not even cover ANY of my cars if I took the Porsche to the track EVER, even if I was covered by someone else while at the track. The verbiage given my the OP looks A LOT like the policy for Allstate, they have since updated their insurance packet to specifically exclude HPDE here in Florida.

In a nut shell: get Lockton HPDE insurance or something similar.

I put my Cayman into the wall at turn 3 at Sebring last year, lockton stepped up and I had my check in about two weeks.


But take it or leave it, no worries.....

Any way enjoy the track time, you can learn A TON!!!


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Old 09-25-2014, 09:53 PM   #18
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my advice on this stuff is always the same.

if you are an honest person with impecable moraltiy call and ask. if they say yes get them to confim it in writing. if they say no then buy track day coverage.

If you had your conscience removed in 8th grade (helps me live with myself) the damage did not happen at the track tow it to a shop and make up a story. haha.

most of the time if you have full covage on a car they will pay out even though people say they wont (ie the bank make you get full coverage to protect them). I had my drunk roomate total my truck and they payed out just fine.
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Old 09-26-2014, 06:10 AM   #19
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No novice answers given... You need to use a company (like Lockton) that specializes in HPDE insurance. Going the route of coverage from your own (Allstate, StateFarm, Progressive...etc), is it really worth being dropped? The folks that attempt the "car move" from a track, that is playing with fire as these companies do have investigators. Or net-net, Insurance Fraud will be the kiss-of-death.

I've used Lockton when I had the ZL1, and now the ZR1. Granted a costly weekend but, piece-of-mind at the same time when you really need to be concentrating on driving the track. (FYI. On estimates from Lockton. Depending on the track the estimate you can do online may be short a bit. Places like RoadAtlanta, there is a premium over the estimate). Some places like BarberMotorsportsPark, due to state law you can NOT purchase just a single event policy and need to go with a multiple-policy to be used in 1yr.
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Old 09-26-2014, 07:50 AM   #20
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Thanks for all the feedback and opinions. I did call my provider (pretending to be a non-customer). They were confused at first and said they didn't offer that coverage. I had to clarify that I was inquiring whether or not those events are covered under a normal auto policy. There statement was that it's not excluded, but in the event of a claim, the underwriters would most likely drop me at renewal. I'm going to take a chance this time and not get additional coverage. Probably a bad idea and everyone one here will rag on me about it, but at this point it's a chance I'm willing to take. This will be it for the fall before I put the car away. If I get hooked on this and start checking out other tracks, then I'll elect additional coverage next year. Hopefully tomorrow is uneventful in that respect.
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:19 AM   #21
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No standard insurance co will cover ANY racing. Period. If they know/find out you wrecked the car during a racing event or on a track there will be no coverage.

The only option available was mentioned above, ontrackinsurance.com. I would read their fine print well though as its limited in events it covers.
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Old 09-26-2014, 11:59 AM   #22
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Originally Posted by LS1 Fun View Post
No standard insurance co will cover ANY racing. Period. If they know/find out you wrecked the car during a racing event or on a track there will be no coverage.

The only option available was mentioned above, ontrackinsurance.com. I would read their fine print well though as its limited in events it covers.

So did this happen to you are are you talking out your behind.
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Old 09-26-2014, 12:25 PM   #23
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So did this happen to you are are you talking out your behind.
I work in the insurance industry and am very familiar with the claims process on both the company side and client side. I have sought out true track coverage(liability and physical damage) for myself and it doesn't exist.

Even the one mentioned above states its only for approved HPDE events and an instructor must be present. http://ontrackinsurance.com/faqs.aspx

Bottom line is, racing is not covered unless it is clearly stated in the insurance contract that "racing on a track is covered". I doubt anyone will find language like that in a policy.

Here is a sample personal auto policy used by all states: http://www.sba.muohio.edu/adelmasw/c...PP00010105.pdf

see exclusions b-4 pg 4, #11 pg5, #12 pg10
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:22 PM   #24
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Just be a street racer.
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Old 09-26-2014, 01:51 PM   #25
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Bottom line is, racing is not covered unless it is clearly stated in the insurance contract that "racing on a track is covered". I doubt anyone will find language like that in a policy.
It's a good thing I'm not racing this weekend then!
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