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Old 02-26-2012, 02:54 PM   #76
JeffInDFW
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Here is the real beauty......They just completely changed the drive system again and redesigned the core, again. But they are still saying they will ship "by the end of February". That is in 4 days. What does this say about reliability testing? How are they going to replicate a lifetime of doors opening in 4 days when they are still using a battery powered drill to open the door? How are they going to test the new LED packs for a lifetime of use in 4 days when they have not even arrived yet? How will the finish stand up to a lifetime of Texas sunshine, or snow and salt of Boston?

OH, they offer a "lifetime warranty". A lifetime warranty in this case likely means the "lifetime" of the company. Warranties are only as good as the company that backs them. How much do you believe and trust the company????
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Old 02-26-2012, 05:53 PM   #77
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it irritates me how it sounds like he's always eating something in EVERY video while he's talking.

but anyway...this is unbelievable.
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Old 02-27-2012, 01:51 AM   #78
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I still wanna know why the thing costs what it does. I figured it was going to have some complex drive system designed in house. Power window motors... You can get those for like $50 brand new. Where's the rest of the cost coming from? Nearly a year of R&D?
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:40 AM   #79
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Yeah, and a switch to a rubber belt drive system. I think they came to realise they were reaching too far and scaled the complexity back to get it out. This COULD be a good thing as the more complex something is, the more likely it is to have a problem.

OH, and now they are once again posting that they have set up yet ANOTHER "pro video shoot" for this Thursday and Friday. Never mind any of the facts. Like......what happened to the LAST pro video shoot video? They are still waiting on parts from Hong Kong. They still don't have a fully assembled grill. They had to use a powered drill to make a door move back and forth in their latest video.

This is all no longer the shocker it was in recent months. I expect all this now. BUT.....someday, they really will get -something- shipped out to the customers. THAT is the day I'm waiting for. When the first person installs this on their car. What will fit and finish be like right out of the box. The next thing I'm waiting for is the next 12 months. How will this grill hold up in all the enviroments from freezing rain to 115 degree days in Texas to automatic car washes, to simply being used day after day after day on bumpy roads.
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Old 02-27-2012, 07:54 AM   #80
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I still wanna know why the thing costs what it does. I figured it was going to have some complex drive system designed in house. Power window motors... You can get those for like $50 brand new. Where's the rest of the cost coming from? Nearly a year of R&D?
They have to meet payroll somehow.

Sure seems like they keep throwing bones to keep people interested so they can keep collecting money. I wonder what would happen if everyone wanted a refund all at once?
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Old 02-27-2012, 08:27 AM   #81
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I'm pretty sure this is not a full time gig for these guys since most of the posting activity and video releases are after 5PM EST and on the weekends. They also don't seem to answer the phone during the day either according to a number of FB posts.
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Old 02-27-2012, 02:38 PM   #82
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I'm pretty sure this is not a full time gig for these guys since most of the posting activity and video releases are after 5PM EST and on the weekends. They also don't seem to answer the phone during the day either according to a number of FB posts.
Great catch. You, sir, are correct.
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:05 AM   #83
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SO......what about the latest pro video shoot that was scheduled for 3/1 and 3/2??? When does THAT video get posted? Are they still shipping by the end of February?

Anybody else look closely at the latest "system" they are using for the powered doors? After all the talk about the trollys and chains.....Are they going to use a looped rubber belt with two pulleys?
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Old 03-03-2012, 10:38 AM   #84
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any news??? Its March ya' know...
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Old 03-03-2012, 01:19 PM   #85
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I hope they include a nice Li-ion drill with each grill. Wonder if we'll see this thing stretch out to a years time. Maybe I'll throw this concept over to the ME grad students at Lyles Engineering, probably be able to conjure up something in under 6 months time at the most.
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Old 03-04-2012, 12:36 AM   #86
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The drill was just a power source + motor (I believe). I just saw a TV show where a woman did the same thing for a hood scoop on a 69 Chevelle. No biggie.

The main problem is they're underestimating dates. Take into account your other todos, be realistic and add a buffer of +2 weeks for the unexpected. If its going to take 8 months, then so be it. Just post videos when you have them and if you're going to release dates, be realistic. If you want it to release in 2 wks and it ain't happening, then don't announce it.

Also, the whole "This should shut up all the..." is unprofessional and not required.
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Old 03-04-2012, 02:46 AM   #87
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This is exactly what I have said to them over and over since last September! I keep telling them that NOBODY has complained that the grill is taking too long. Yet, they keep deflecting back to that over and over. I no longer think they are as innocent as I once thought they were. I used to think they were just very unlucky and kept getting excited and giving dates they couldn't meet. No. I don't believe that any longer. Nobody is this unlucky. Nobody sets this many reveal dates and misses them ALL. If you go back to the beginning and write down every promise made, and then their complete lack of action afterward, the truth becomes very clear. Others are welcome to, but I personally would never do business with these guys. I don't take kindly to being lied to and filled full of crap. To be VERY clear, I was waiting to see one of these installed on a real Camaro (because I'm SMART), and would then order one. I took up for these guys for a long time, but enough is enough.

When this thing does finally ship (If it ever does), I can't wait to see what people actually get. I can't wait to see how it installs. Then, the biggie.....I can't wait to see what happens to these grills over the course of their first year in the real world. "Lifetime Warranty". From what you have seen since last July (when this was announced with shipping starting in 2 months *IF* I remember correctly), how confident are YOU that you will receive truthful, quick, courteous resolution? How will the parts and finish stand up to sitting in direct sunlight in Texas for 3 years? How will they stand up to 3 years of winters in Boston? How much endurance testing has been done? If buyers are comfortable, then more power to them. It is their money, and I certainly do not wish bad things for them. For me....No thanks.
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Old 03-04-2012, 03:12 AM   #88
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This is exactly what I have said to them over and over since last September! I keep telling them that NOBODY has complained that the grill is taking too long. Yet, they keep deflecting back to that over and over. I no longer think they are as innocent as I once thought they were. I used to think they were just very unlucky and kept getting excited and giving dates they couldn't meet. No. I don't believe that any longer. Nobody is this unlucky. Nobody sets this many reveal dates and misses them ALL. If you go back to the beginning and write down every promise made, and then their complete lack of action afterward, the truth becomes very clear. Others are welcome to, but I personally would never do business with these guys. I don't take kindly to being lied to and filled full of crap. To be VERY clear, I was waiting to see one of these installed on a real Camaro (because I'm SMART), and would then order one. I took up for these guys for a long time, but enough is enough.

When this thing does finally ship (If it ever does), I can't wait to see what people actually get. I can't wait to see how it installs. Then, the biggie.....I can't wait to see what happens to these grills over the course of their first year in the real world. "Lifetime Warranty". From what you have seen since last July (when this was announced with shipping starting in 2 months *IF* I remember correctly), how confident are YOU that you will receive truthful, quick, courteous resolution? How will the parts and finish stand up to sitting in direct sunlight in Texas for 3 years? How will they stand up to 3 years of winters in Boston? How much endurance testing has been done? If buyers are comfortable, then more power to them. It is their money, and I certainly do not wish bad things for them. For me....No thanks.
Well said!

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Old 03-04-2012, 11:17 AM   #89
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This is exactly what I have said to them over and over since last September! I keep telling them that NOBODY has complained that the grill is taking too long. Yet, they keep deflecting back to that over and over. I no longer think they are as innocent as I once thought they were. I used to think they were just very unlucky and kept getting excited and giving dates they couldn't meet. No. I don't believe that any longer. Nobody is this unlucky. Nobody sets this many reveal dates and misses them ALL. If you go back to the beginning and write down every promise made, and then their complete lack of action afterward, the truth becomes very clear. Others are welcome to, but I personally would never do business with these guys. I don't take kindly to being lied to and filled full of crap. To be VERY clear, I was waiting to see one of these installed on a real Camaro (because I'm SMART), and would then order one. I took up for these guys for a long time, but enough is enough.

When this thing does finally ship (If it ever does), I can't wait to see what people actually get. I can't wait to see how it installs. Then, the biggie.....I can't wait to see what happens to these grills over the course of their first year in the real world. "Lifetime Warranty". From what you have seen since last July (when this was announced with shipping starting in 2 months *IF* I remember correctly), how confident are YOU that you will receive truthful, quick, courteous resolution? How will the parts and finish stand up to sitting in direct sunlight in Texas for 3 years? How will they stand up to 3 years of winters in Boston? How much endurance testing has been done? If buyers are comfortable, then more power to them. It is their money, and I certainly do not wish bad things for them. For me....No thanks.
+1 I was also interested in this grill in the beginning. But not anymore. For all the reasons you have stated. I don't care how bad azz it turns out. I could not see myself doing business with a company that has over promised and under delivered as much as they have on this product in what 8 or 9 months now? Rediculous!
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:00 PM   #90
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When this thing does finally ship (If it ever does), I can't wait to see what people actually get. I can't wait to see how it installs. Then, the biggie.....I can't wait to see what happens to these grills over the course of their first year in the real world. "Lifetime Warranty". From what you have seen since last July (when this was announced with shipping starting in 2 months *IF* I remember correctly), how confident are YOU that you will receive truthful, quick, courteous resolution? How will the parts and finish stand up to sitting in direct sunlight in Texas for 3 years? How will they stand up to 3 years of winters in Boston? How much endurance testing has been done? If buyers are comfortable, then more power to them. It is their money, and I certainly do not wish bad things for them. For me....No thanks.
Just a quick point.... do you think Chevy tested your Camaro in these conditions for 3 years or more before selling your your car? I think not, but if people protect the investment, the parts and finish last, just like maintaining your car and paint. The two things above are invalid in that instance. The rest is acceptable argument, we shall see...
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:37 PM   #91
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Actually, GM does do this. For example, the ZR1s exposed carbon fiber roof was discoloring when exposed to a set number of years of UV exposure. GM then researched and came up with a clear coat that is now applied to the Carbon Fiber that protects it from the UV rays.

The process is called accelerated environmental and durability testing. They are able to do 8 years worth of weathering in a fraction of that time. They expose everything to this, from exterior finishes to interior parts. Fbodfather would be our best source to explain this in detail as it relates to the Camaro, but yes. GM knows for a FACT that my new Camaro can stand up to Texas summers for over 10 years with no degradation of finish. GM knows for a FACT that 10 years of Boston winters will not harm my new Camaro. The exact details of how long is acceptable to GM is not known to me (is it 8 years or 15, I don't know). It is a very interesting process.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:52 PM   #92
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Actually, GM does do this. For example, the ZR1s exposed carbon fiber roof was discoloring when exposed to a set number of years of UV exposure. GM then researched and came up with a clear coat that is now applied to the Carbon Fiber that protects it from the UV rays.

The process is called accelerated environmental and durability testing. They are able to do 8 years worth of weathering in a fraction of that time. They expose everything to this, from exterior finishes to interior parts. Fbodfather would be our best source to explain this in detail as it relates to the Camaro, but yes. GM knows for a FACT that my new Camaro can stand up to Texas summers for over 10 years with no degradation of finish. GM knows for a FACT that 10 years of Boston winters will not harm my new Camaro. The exact details of how long is acceptable to GM is not known to me (is it 8 years or 15, I don't know). It is a very interesting process.
Those tests are in a set, "perfect" environment with no rocks or salt being thrown at the car. There's no way they tested salt corrosion on the car for that long in a lab, unless it set for 8-15 years before the Gen5 came out. Real life isn't in a testing facility. Also, are you not going to wax your car for 8-15 years because GM did a lab test in a week? You're going to not do anything to the car at all because of those tests? Reality bites man, bites way harder than someone in a windtunnel in a lab suit.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:53 PM   #93
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This is exactly what I have said to them over and over since last September! I keep telling them that NOBODY has complained that the grill is taking too long. Yet, they keep deflecting back to that over and over. I no longer think they are as innocent as I once thought they were. I used to think they were just very unlucky and kept getting excited and giving dates they couldn't meet. No. I don't believe that any longer. Nobody is this unlucky. Nobody sets this many reveal dates and misses them ALL. If you go back to the beginning and write down every promise made, and then their complete lack of action afterward, the truth becomes very clear. Others are welcome to, but I personally would never do business with these guys. I don't take kindly to being lied to and filled full of crap. To be VERY clear, I was waiting to see one of these installed on a real Camaro (because I'm SMART), and would then order one. I took up for these guys for a long time, but enough is enough.
Have to agree. It sure seems like they're doing just enough to keep stringing people along and keep bringing buyers in. And of course they're going to refund one or two people's orders to make it look like they're legit - it allows them to keep taking more orders in. The moment they start refusing refunds it'd be obvious they're stealing people's money.

They're probably stringing this along thinking eventually people will just forget. You guys would be surprised how quickly people forget about products they buy. I do group purchases for my website all the time. For my last group purchase, the shirts came in around Christmas. I have two orders boxed up still sitting in my living room ready to ship out but the two guys who ordered it won't respond to my PM's for their shipping address -- and these shirts are already paid for! Granted, $20 product compared to $1200+ product... but still.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:54 PM   #94
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for the record, FL1CK...GM does test paints and clears for several YEARS before production...it's one of the reasons paint color turnaround is so slow...

Carry on.
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Old 03-04-2012, 04:57 PM   #95
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for the record, FL1CK...GM does test paints and clears for several YEARS before production...it's one of the reasons paint color turnaround is so slow...

Carry on.
it's not all about the paint in this scenario. And again, if the tests guarantee the work, why do we have to maintain it ourselves? The body shape with that paint wasn't tested for "years". Hence the threads about our "thin clear coat"
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:11 PM   #96
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it's not all about the paint in this scenario. And again, if the tests guarantee the work, why do we have to maintain it ourselves? The body shape with that paint wasn't tested for "years". Hence the threads about our "thin clear coat"
I only wanted to set the record straight...not get into a debate.
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Old 03-04-2012, 05:14 PM   #97
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I only wanted to set the record straight...not get into a debate.
I understand that, not wanting to either. Just wanted to point out that some of the "tests" done are no where near what reality can accomplish.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:27 PM   #98
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GM sent out dozens and dozens of CTF Camaros around the country to test then in every type of conditions they would experience in the real world they did this for over a year.
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Old 03-04-2012, 08:31 PM   #99
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GM sent out dozens and dozens of CTF Camaros around the country to test then in every type of conditions they would experience in the real world they did this for over a year.
Here we go again... the posts above state 3 to 8 to 15 years... Can you all agree that if you don't protect your paint it won't look showroom quality in 3 to 15 years? If you don't do the maintenance on your Camaro (oil, fluids, belts, etc) it won't run as good or if at all as it does now in 3 to 15 years? That's all the point I was trying to make... sheesh.
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Old 03-04-2012, 10:47 PM   #100
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Flick, why don't you take a moment to google accelerated environmental and durability testing. Nowhere did I say "I hope this grill can survive with no care from the owner! After all, I don't wax my car or change the oil!". Really? I said they have done no environmental or durability testing that I am aware of, and that is important. If you will Google "accelerated environmental and durability testing", you will see that they actually do blast the paint with sand, rocks, etc to make sure the paint processes will stand up to the companies standards. The ZR1 had the super expensive UV clear coat on it the first year the ZR1 came out. How did GM know it needed it, and how did GM know what formula was needed? Because they put the panels in a chamber that was able to simulate years and years of UV exposure in only a fraction of the time. The panels faded. So, GM started looking for ways to protect it.

Don't start trying to backtrack. I did not say -ANYTHING- about the owner not having to properly care for a car. Maybe you should re-read my post. The covering for the lights, will they discolor or become foggy after 2 years of UV exposure? GM knows their headlights and tail lights will stay same as new for 5 years, or 8 years, or 15 years. Again, as I wrote I do not know the number of years that GM has set as its requirement, but I know my 1995 Z28 has withstood the elements perfectly. I know cheap ass Autozone driving lights lenses turn yellow after one year.
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