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Old 11-08-2007, 11:57 PM   #1
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Huge offshore oil discovery

RIO DE JANEIRO, Brazil (AP) -- A huge offshore oil discovery could raise Brazil's petroleum reserves by a whopping 40 percent and boost this country into the ranks of the world's major exporters, officials said.

The government-run oil company Petroleo Brasileiro SA, or Petrobras, said the new "ultra-deep" Tupi field could hold as much as 8 billion barrels of recoverable light crude, sending Petrobras shares soaring and prompting predictions that Brazil could join the world's "top 10" oil producers.

Petrobras President Sergio Gabrielli said Thursday the oil from ultradeep areas, including the Tupi field, would give Brazil the world's eighth-largest oil and gas reserves.

"Brazil's reserves will lie somewhere between those of Nigeria and those of Venezuela," Gabrielli said at a news conference.

Petrobras says the Tupi field, off Brazil's southeastern Atlantic coast, has between 5 billion and 8 billion barrels -- equivalent to 40 percent of all the oil ever discovered in Brazil.

Brazil's total oil reserves currently rank 17th in the world, with 14.4 billion barrels of oil equivalent, Gabrielli said.

Thursday's news of the discovery rocked a country that became a net oil exporter only last year but must still import light crude oil for the refined products it needs. Brazil produces -- and exports -- mostly heavy crude oil, which has to be mixed with the light oil in refineries.

Petrobras' American depository shares jumped $24.03 to $116.77 on the New York Stock Exchange to close at a 52-week high. In Brazil, Petrobras shares ended 14.1 percent higher Thursday at 80.17 reals ($45.94) in Sao Paulo.

"If this is confirmed, we will no longer be a 'medium' country, pursuing self-sufficiency and exporting a little. It will transform the nation to another level, with exporting properties like Venezuela, Arab nations and others," said Dilma Rousseff, presidential chief of staff.

For a country that went deeply into debt buying foreign oil in the 1970s and '80s, "this has changed our reality," she said.

Rousseff also announced that Brazil was withdrawing 41 blocks of underwater territory from an auction of 312 prospective oil blocks to be held this month. The country still will put the remaining 261 blocks up for auction but will reserve the most promising areas around the Tupi field for itself.

The Tupi field lies under 2,140 meters (7,060 feet) of water, more than 3,000 meters (almost 10,000 feet) of sand and rocks, and then another 2,000-meter (6,600-foot) thick layer of salt. The company drilled test wells that lie under 2,166 meters (7,100 feet) of water, 286 kilometers (177 miles) south of Rio de Janeiro.

Getting that oil out of the Earth's crust is a formidable challenge, but most of Brazil's oil lies off its Atlantic coast, and Petrobras has become a global leader in ultradeep offshore oil extraction.

Felipe Cunha, an oil analyst with the Sao Paulo-based brokerage Brascan, said the Tupi field guarantees Brazil's oil output will continue to grow.

"If the best-case scenario happens, this discovery would make Petrobras' reserves overcome those of Shell and Chevron and put Petrobras behind only Exxon and British Petroleum," Cunha said.

Petrobras has a 65 percent operating stake in the field, Britain's BG Group PLC holds 25 percent, and Petroleos de Portugal holds the remaining 10 percent. E-mail to a friend

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved.This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten, or redistributed.
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Old 11-09-2007, 12:27 AM   #2
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Maybe Dubya should get his oil a little more locally. Prices would come down.
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Old 11-09-2007, 12:55 AM   #3
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Your gas is cheap, don't complain. We are at the equiv of about $4.15/gal.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:08 AM   #4
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ok. 3.63 isn't that bad then... My gas is more expensive than 95% of the US so I can complain about US prices...:stickingtongueout:
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Old 11-09-2007, 02:03 AM   #5
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Shoot...we were paying $2.85 reg for the longest time. I think my super was at something like $3.09-$3.15...ish. It's just gone up to $3.21 over the past day.

This new find is going to be great for those folks....and us. We'll be buying it from them I'm sure...at a lower cost. Guess I should see some new gas stations going up around town.
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:28 AM   #6
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Well, I don't feel too bad then, here it jumped to $3.21 for Reg. I don't see why they won't tap that reserve the found in the Gulf of Mexico a little while back, it's suppose to be bigger then what the mideast has, Mexico's aready started drilling for it.(Yeah, I know why the US won't drill)
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Old 11-09-2007, 07:51 AM   #7
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Enviro -mental- ists. won't allow us to drill...but Cuba can.

I've had enough of this. With all the "great power" of our gov't, they can't overcome a bunch of tree-huggers?

Alaska, Gulf of Mexico...probably more. just drill for it already. BUT in the meantime, pump money into alternative sources.

Why can we think of these things? But all the gov't seems to be able to do is raise CAFE?
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:21 AM   #8
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If I were in power, that's what I'd do. I'd say this is just a temp fix, for the next five to ten years I'd pump a "blank" load to money into research on alternate fuels. Youre never gonna get completely off oil, but we should beable to cut what we buy from the arabs in half or less with the oil in Alaska and the Gulf.
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:25 AM   #9
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Adjusting CAFE standards is the easy way out for politicians. It appeases the eco-nuts, and the public thinks that automakers can just choose whatever efficiency they want for cars at no cost or difficulty at all, so all we have to do is raise the standard.

Really though, it is amazing how far engines have come in the area of efficiency. Cars are heavier and more powerful than ever, but also increasingly fuel efficient.
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:51 AM   #10
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To put these numbers into perspective.

The oil reserve discovered contained 5 to 8 billion barrels or oil.

If we are optimistic and assume it is 8 billion barrels

The world uses 82 million barrels a day, and the United States 20.6 million barrels a day (2005 statistic), and assuming this consumption does not increase or decrease (unrealistic).

Like to the stats: http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/quickfacts/quickoil.html

8 billion barrels of oil will last the world......
8 billion barrels / 82 million barrels/day = 97 days or just over 3 months.

8 billion barrels of oil will last the United States
8 billion barrels/21 million barrels/day = 380 days or just over 1 year.

To me this huge reserve just isn't that huge.
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Old 11-09-2007, 09:14 AM   #11
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Really though, it is amazing how far engines have come in the area of efficiency. Cars are heavier and more powerful than ever, but also increasingly fuel efficient.
No argument there.

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Originally Posted by Rock36 View Post
The world uses 82 million barrels a day, and the United States 20.6 million barrels a day (2005 statistic), and assuming this consumption does not increase or decrease (unrealistic).

Like to the stats: http://www.eia.doe.gov/neic/quickfacts/quickoil.html

8 billion barrels of oil will last the world......
8 billion barrels / 82 million barrels/day = 97 days or just over 3 months.

8 billion barrels of oil will last the United States
8 billion barrels/21 million barrels/day = 380 days or just over 1 year.

To me this huge reserve just isn't that huge.
Nope. go figure, right?
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:27 PM   #12
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Really though, it is amazing how far engines have come in the area of efficiency. Cars are heavier and more powerful than ever, but also increasingly fuel efficient.
yes and no...in fuel yes i can see your point but in overall efficiency? correct me if i'm wrong but didn't guys from MIT 20 years ago or so build a car that could go like 100k before it need an oil change?? and one of the big 3 came in, bought it, and we have never seen it since.

i'm ripping on the auto companies, it is all about money. why would an auto company come out with a car that could get 50+ mpg, 50k before oil change, and have 350+hp? we would all buy one and drive the wheels off of it. first year sales would be great but second would be down, then third and so on. i think CAFE is to force them to do something. other than make ugly cars that get great gas like the pyrus.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:36 PM   #13
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why would an auto company come out with a car that could get 50+ mpg, 50k before oil change, and have 350+hp? .
I'm gonna take the defensive side and say they wouldn't because it'd be freakin' expensive.
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Old 11-09-2007, 01:46 PM   #14
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It would probably only be expensive because they would add on a "recouping predicted future losses" tax to make up for the slump in sales Swazworth was talking about.

I'm sure the technology wasn't cheap... 20 years ago. However, as we've all seen even in just the past 5 years, technology cheapens fast! If it cost an extra $20,000 20 years ago, chances are the exact same technology would only be a sum of its parts by now if kept in production throughout.
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Old 11-09-2007, 02:44 PM   #15
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Umm, what do the automakers care about oil changes and gas milage? Those are in the domain of big oil, not detroit.

One thing that people always ignore is that you can never have it all. There are 3 basic laws to engineering
1) If something can go wrong, eventually it will (aka Murphy's Law)
2) Of low cost, reliability, and quality (ie performance, refinement, comfort, etc), pick two!
3) Its not possible to over-estimate the power of complete idiots

What does all that mean? Well if you ever want something that lasts forever and provides amazing performance it will cost a fortune. However, it will eventually break, and that will happen a lot sooner if an idiot gets a hold of it.

For example, to the engine you mentioned, the oil issues require very tight tollerences (expensive) with materials that don't wear away (also expensive) that don't transmit much heat (expensive). Next you want these engines to have three times as much power as most engines on the market today. Guess what, the more power you produce, the more heat you make. And oil doesn't like heat. So you need to develop a way to keep the engine cool while running (expensive). And it needs to be fuel efficient? That will require very precise mechanisms for fuel delivery and near perfect burning of the fuel within the engine. I'm not even sure if its possible to get 35 mpg with a 350 hp car in real driving conditions. Anyway, all of the advanced little bits of technology are things that can break. So you need to make them indestructable (expensive). So unless you are willing to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars, its not going to happen. Or you could change the oil and buy a bit more gasoline.

We have came a long way in 40 years but there just isn't that much more that can be done. The internal combustion engine isn't all that efficient, and its over 100 years old. It's potential is nearly maxed out, not quite, but almost. Sure we could make smaller cars with carbon fibre weighing 1500 lbs and get away with having 25 hp engines and get 60 mpg. But I don't want a car like that. I want a 3500 lb 400 hp V8 camaro that gets 25-30 mpg.
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Old 11-09-2007, 03:18 PM   #16
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If I were multiple persons, you'd get a standing ovation.
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Old 11-09-2007, 04:01 PM   #17
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Old 11-09-2007, 08:51 PM   #18
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you forgot safety devices! but other than that, standing ovation.

the one thing I want to know is why GM detunes the Corvette engine for the Camaro? oh, and I dont care if gas gets to $10.00 a gallon, id still have a full tank. I might only drive once a month, but id still drive!!!
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Old 11-09-2007, 10:21 PM   #19
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the one thing I want to know is why GM detunes the Corvette engine for the Camaro?
Are you referring to the 4th gens? cause, if you are...A little birdy told me that they didn't. The numbers were "fudged". And that the 'SS', with all the SLP crap, could outrun the same-year base Corvette...

NOT something corvette owners would be too happy about. :eek:

And did you notice, that in every LS1 vehicle, Goat, Corvette...and that's about it, except the Camaro/Firebird had an advertised 350hp? whereas the fbodys were 320-ish (forgot the exact number)

(I'm sure I crapped on some of those numbers, but you get the idea)
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Old 11-10-2007, 01:15 AM   #20
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yes and no...in fuel yes i can see your point but in overall efficiency? correct me if i'm wrong but didn't guys from MIT 20 years ago or so build a car that could go like 100k before it need an oil change?? and one of the big 3 came in, bought it, and we have never seen it since.

i'm ripping on the auto companies, it is all about money. why would an auto company come out with a car that could get 50+ mpg, 50k before oil change, and have 350+hp? we would all buy one and drive the wheels off of it. first year sales would be great but second would be down, then third and so on. i think CAFE is to force them to do something. other than make ugly cars that get great gas like the pyrus.
Sorry, but this is BIG TIME BS… You can add this with all the other “The BIG THREE bought them out” BS stories…
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Old 11-10-2007, 03:47 AM   #21
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GM is notorious for underrating their engines. Makes things easier on the insurance front. I appreciate it.

And yes, the Big 3 buying out some miracle technology and then killing it stories are dime a dozen. Check Snopes.com; they're there.
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Old 11-11-2007, 02:44 AM   #22
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The internal combustion engine isn't all that efficient, and its over 100 years old. It's potential is nearly maxed out, not quite, but almost.
so are you saying that it is time to come up with a different type of engine??
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the Big 3 buying out some miracle technology and then killing it stories are dime a dozen. Check Snopes.com
i forgot about snopes...like i said i wasn't ripping.... just wondering
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Old 11-11-2007, 06:25 AM   #23
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so are you saying that it is time to come up with a different type of engine??
lets all get jet turbine engines!!!! the ones on my plane run at around 98.799999999999% efficiency. then again, they are 4 times the size of my car and create 45,000lbs of thrust. should get you from a to b pretty quick.
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Old 11-11-2007, 09:33 AM   #24
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so are you saying that it is time to come up with a different type of engine??
I believe chrysler experimented with turbine engines 50 years ago. And GM and Toyota have colaborated on fuel cell research (yes they co-operate on several things). But turbines didn't catch on and fuel cells require billions of investment for the infrastructure needed to fuel them. So while the infernal combustion engine isn't the greatest we don't really have a better alternative right now
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Old 11-13-2007, 11:11 AM   #25
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lets all get jet turbine engines!!!!
like this

this link tells about the car http://youtube.com/watch?v=TSn2igZtuPA

this one you can see it go http://youtube.com/watch?v=m90BhJXZAXc
might be fun to try
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