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Old 02-10-2012, 09:17 AM   #1
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Cats

Can someone provide me some knowledge about converter removal on this car? I thought I read somewhere that removing the cataylitc converters is a very bad idea on forced induction cars because of the heat?

Can someone confirm or deny this?

Yes, I know its illegal but as people have seen in my previous posts, this will be a track car and will not need to be inspected.
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:38 AM   #2
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Cats' need heat to operate correctly. However - there are parameters in the PCM that keep enough fuel in the motor to keep the cats' from over-heating.

If you don't have to worry about smog or inspections, then get some long tubes on that thing!!! Removing cats' won't hurt anything except Mother Earth (if you believe that...), but you might have a problem with warranty, and probably need to have a custom dyno' tune in order to take full advantage of the substiantial flow increase.

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Old 02-10-2012, 09:41 AM   #3
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You'll be fine.


radz28: from Sacramento huh? I'm from there too
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Old 02-10-2012, 09:43 AM   #4
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Sorry, should have posted in mods. Thanks for moving it for me.

I also heard headers as well was a no go.. Maybe because for me the money you can get power elsewhere for cheaper. May just need to go hf cats instead. Better for environment and won't smell like gas I guess
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:04 AM   #5
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You'll be fine.


radz28: from Sacramento huh? I'm from there too
OH YEAH?! SWEET! Are you serving? How'd you end up in the UK?

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Sorry, should have posted in mods. Thanks for moving it for me.

I also heard headers as well was a no go.. Maybe because for me the money you can get power elsewhere for cheaper. May just need to go hf cats instead. Better for environment and won't smell like gas I guess
WRONG. Long tubes are about the best bolt-on you can do for power without really adding additional stress to the motor. You are actually making it more efficient, so long as there's a good tune to keep the A/F and spark in optimal range. People have actually recorded gains in fuel mileage, too (me included).

High flow cats', IMO, aren't really worth the expense. OEM cats', nowadays, actually flow respectably. If you're environmentally aware, leave the OEM ones on there. High flow cats' don't burn-off the excess emissions as well, so that kinda' goes against your concern.

Having see what you've posted - I'd say leave the OEM cats' alone. If you want some more power, ARH has released CARB-legal shorties that bolt right-up to the OEM cats', give at least 10 RWHP (on a stock SS - ZL1s haven't, obviously, been tested yet) and you'll probably find more on a SC motor. Shoot - you might consider some pulleys to add a little more boost, too.

Just remember - you could be sacrificing warranties by mod'ing, so keep that in mind.
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:11 AM   #6
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I also heard headers as well was a no go.. Maybe because for me the money you can get power elsewhere for cheaper. May just need to go hf cats instead. Better for environment and won't smell like gas I guess
You want as much flow as you can in a SC car. Engine is an air pump with another one bolted to it. The better it breaths the more power you make.
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OH YEAH?! SWEET! Are you serving? How'd you end up in the UK?
Yes I am. In the Air Force.

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WRONG. Long tubes are about the best bolt-on you can do for power without really adding additional stress to the motor. You are actually making it more efficient, so long as there's a good tune to keep the A/F and spark in optimal range. People have actually recorded gains in fuel mileage, too (me included).

High flow cats', IMO, aren't really worth the expense. OEM cats', nowadays, actually flow respectably. If you're environmentally aware, leave the OEM ones on there. High flow cats' don't burn-off the excess emissions as well, so that kinda' goes against your concern.

Having see what you've posted - I'd say leave the OEM cats' alone. If you want some more power, ARH has released CARB-legal shorties that bolt right-up to the OEM cats', give at least 10 RWHP (on a stock SS - ZL1s haven't, obviously, been tested yet) and you'll probably find more on a SC motor. Shoot - you might consider some pulleys to add a little more boost, too.

Just remember - you could be sacrificing warranties by mod'ing, so keep that in mind.
I agree..
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:14 AM   #7
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You want as much flow as you can in a SC car. Engine is an air pump with another one bolted to it. The better it breaths the more power you make.

Yes I am. In the Air Force.



I agree..
Sweet. If I had a regret in my life, it was not serving...

Regardless - thank you for your service and I hope you come home safe
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Old 02-10-2012, 10:25 AM   #8
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Sweet. If I had a regret in my life, it was not serving...

Regardless - thank you for your service and I hope you come home safe
Thank you! Thanks for the support.
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Old 02-10-2012, 11:03 AM   #9
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Yeah, I'm not too concerned about power as I think I will have my hands full already. So let's talk sound? Stock cats with headers. Am I gonna hear a difference. I want loud.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:31 AM   #10
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so does anybody know if the mid piped are the same on the ZL1 as on the SS's?
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:36 AM   #11
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Sorry, should have posted in mods. Thanks for moving it for me.

I also heard headers as well was a no go.. Maybe because for me the money you can get power elsewhere for cheaper. May just need to go hf cats instead. Better for environment and won't smell like gas I guess

I would say it depends on what your end power goals are. I bet the stock manafolds can support a good bit of horsepower so in that respect, yes, if you don't want the added cost, it may not be needed (depending on what power you are looking to make). Case in point was my 04 cobra, I put high flow cats and magnaflow catback on but kept the stock manafolds. I only did a ported blower so was at about 509rwhp and 520rwtq .. however many with upgraded blowers (whipple / KB) hit 600rwhp with no issues using the stock manafolds. At a point it will be a restriction.

I would say you could run Long Tubes and no cats and not hurt anything as long as you tune for anything you must tune for as well. Just because of the blower doesn't make it unsafe (I would state the above statement for a tune as well for a N/A car).

EDIT: I would like to state though, if you do free the exuast up, you may see the boost pressure go down (while making more power). That is always good for the motor ...



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Old 03-12-2012, 10:37 AM   #12
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If you're talking after the cats', to the mufflers - they are different. There are no resonators and the pipe angles look different as they pass around the differential and it's cooler lines.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:43 AM   #13
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Cool pic, but actually talking about the catalytic converters themselves. Ie if I decided to go HF cats or just a complete removal.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:46 AM   #14
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Cool pic, but actually talking about the catalytic converters themselves. Ie if I decided to go HF cats or just a complete removal.
Ask and thou shall receive (thanks to Dragoneye )
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:47 AM   #15
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It looks to me like the headpipes are pretty similar, and there's an H-pipe in there, but I think an X-pipe would flow a lot more, considering that cross-over size.

Still - it's a great start, IMO. I might knock out one of those cats' on each side though
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:55 AM   #16
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Same here, I am actually suprised that GM opted to put the second cats on there since they don't serve a purpose and would allow the ZL1 exhaust to breathe a whole lot better!! this exhaust sure looks pieced together, the mid-pipes and the H-pipe sure look like they have way more miles on them versus the rest of it..plus you can see the extra welds in the pipes.
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:59 AM   #17
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They wouldn't add more expense unless it was necessary...

It used to be, like on '01 Z06s - they first cats' were pup' cats', just to keep the heat high so the primary (lower) cats' would light-off sooner and work more efficiently. This could be the case here, however, I dont' know if there are pup' cats', and actually think the considerable emissions from LSA are probably what is necessary to keep emissions well within check. I don't know how accurate the reports are for LSA, but when you compare it's carbon emissions to other cars - they are quite high. Of course - LSA is considerably more powerful, but it may just be necessary. However - if LS9 can get away with only one pair of cats'...

I maintain GM would add expensive cats' unless it were necessary
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:17 PM   #18
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That was my thoughts exactly, the ZR1 has one I thought and I just got a new Silverado two weeks ago and it only has one cat per side on it..just don't see the need is all and your right, the cost of those mid-pipes per car is crazy, they could save a buck or two.
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Old 03-12-2012, 12:26 PM   #19
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That was my thoughts exactly, the ZR1 has one I thought and I just got a new Silverado two weeks ago and it only has one cat per side on it..just don't see the need is all and your right, the cost of those mid-pipes per car is crazy, they could save a buck or two.
Maybe - it's perhaps because on the 'Vette (if I recall), the cats' hang right off the manifolds. That may not be possible on 5th Gens because of packaging, and moving them down the distance they have to go as a result may require the secondaries to keep everything efficient All I know, it I could use a little more sound when the valve are open
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:26 PM   #20
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Can someone provide me some knowledge about converter removal on this car? I thought I read somewhere that removing the cataylitc converters is a very bad idea on forced induction cars because of the heat?

Can someone confirm or deny this?

Yes, I know its illegal but as people have seen in my previous posts, this will be a track car and will not need to be inspected.

Removing Cats never hurts the car. Cats are a restriction in the exhuast for eviromental resons. there is no perfromance or tuning benifit to cats that I have ever heard of.

If it is a track car ditch them. on my 01 mustang GT it had 4 cats and I noticed more power from the midpipe swap than the catback changover. you do get more fuel smell with no cats though. If you will ever drive it on the streets high flows are bit nicer smell wise sitting at a stop light.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:35 PM   #21
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Sorry, that's what I thought when I saw your post title. Back to the thread

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Old 03-14-2012, 10:36 AM   #22
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Man they look exactly the same as the ls3 cats... Could be a easy swap to say a solo performance cat and get a nice sound with the valves open.
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Old 03-14-2012, 10:55 AM   #23
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Also can someone explain the reason why you have a x-pipe or a h-pipe? Why not just have a straight pipe?
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Old 03-14-2012, 11:12 AM   #24
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It allows scavenging, it pulls the exhaust gases out better than straight pipes.

Gas passed through the x or h from one bank and it helps pull exhaust from the other bank.
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:24 PM   #25
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It allows scavenging, it pulls the exhaust gases out better than straight pipes.

Gas passed through the x or h from one bank and it helps pull exhaust from the other bank.
Thank you
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