ZL1 vs '13 GT500 Solution for GM

[7CAMARO7]

Chevy benchmarked the gt500 & the boss 302 to make the ZL1. Ford is using the Ford GT to benchmark the '13 GT500. Think about it... Let that settle in.

Alright, that being noted with the Ford GT being the baddest Ford from the factory, it leads me to think there is a reasonable chance the '13 GT500 will out perform our ZL1.

I think the easiest fix would be to change the '13 ZL1 badge to something else (perhaps Z28 or SS). Maybe change the badge name on the current SS to maybe Z28. I think the name changes should come with more options as well. The ZL1 name should be protected. This situation is just a matter of bad timing with the 650hp beast coming out.

Or for '13 ZL1 just improve the LS9 to 670hp and make it 680-700 for the ZR1.

Otherwise I just feel that I will be forced to see the ZL1 be embarrassed in one way or the other. Time will tell.

[radz28]

Interesting...

Try as they might, benchmarking the GT sounds crazy to me, honestly. You put some modern tires on that car, and it would be right next to Z06 around the 'Ring. That car weighs something like 400-pounds less than the GT500, and has a SRA and the 500 is rolling on smaller tires (well - rear anyways).

IMVHO - changing the names around won't do anything. GM has nothing to be embarrassed about with ZL1. Getting this worked up already is a little premature, if you ask me. There's no denying the power is definately something to be worried about, but Ford's gotta make that power hit the ground, and we already have an idea how effective their shocks work from the Boss. I imagine it's going to weigh more with all the coolers and equipment that will be available. ZL1 has active suspension and steering which are getting raves. Ford's shocks are not that advanced, and if reports are true that the the Mustang's chassis was only designed for 300 horses, more than doubling that, without a lot of bracing is probably not going to make it a greatly effective platform. I've already read comments how much better than chassis is in the porkier ZL1, but ZL1 has a lot going for it. From the suspension and chassis, to actual aerodynamics that press it to the tarmac more than any other GM car before it. It sounds like the GT500's aero' parts are going to make it a little video-gamey (to me, anyways) with the little vanes and fins, but that's beside the point.

There's no question the GT500 is going to be a force to be dealt with. I think it IS CAMARO's job to deal with anything Mustang-related, though, that's Ford's flagship (we, obviously, have Corvette), so we just might be stuck. I think we're going to see improvements before the end of this generation but I don't think it's going to be much. It's all about the money, and if GM can make it happen, they will. If not, that's fine by me, because I won't buy a Mustang while there's a CAMARO out there. There are certainly SSs already out there that would pound the GT500, let alone ZL1s, so I'm not too affected.

JMHO.

[72MachOne99GT]

If you're embarrassed to have your flagship Camaro make 580 hp and handle like an animal while still weighing 4000+ pounds, I don't think your ego can be saved lol

do you think 07-09 Shelby owners are embarrassed by their 'pathetic' 500 hp, and less than steller handling?

Be happy with what you're getting. If my '13 GT500 comes in with a mid 12 second quarter mile, and doesn't handle any better than my '99 GT, I'm still buying it, and I'm still going to enjoy the hell out of it.

I don't there will be any changes for the '13 ZL1, but it's hard to tell after that.

[toilets]

And unlike ford, you really can't be stepping on your flagship cars toes to much. You are already faster than a gs and you are pretty close to the zo6 numbers besides the ring. If you made it faster than that then you got people asking lots of questions as to why spend 30gs more for a zo6 when a zl1 is faster

[garcmol]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

If you're embarrassed to have your flagship Camaro make 580 hp and handle like an animal while still weighing 4000+ pounds, I don't think your ego can be saved lol

do you think 07-09 Shelby owners are embarrassed by their 'pathetic' 500 hp, and less than steller handling?

Be happy with what you're getting. If my '13 GT500 comes in with a mid 12 second quarter mile, and doesn't handle any better than my '99 GT, I'm still buying it, and I'm still going to enjoy the hell out of it.

I don't there will be any changes for the '13 ZL1, but it's hard to tell after that.

[Tob]

Once the cat is out of the bag you can protect neither.

[MauriSSio]

just because they tried to benchmark the GT doesnt mean they actually succeeded in it.

[SlingShot]

To be honest, I really don't care because I have no plans of racing one. My ZL1 is going to be a DD to just enjoy, and put my foot in once in a while. Also there is the thing of someone always being faster. Even Dodge released information that the 2013 Viper will be a 8 Liter pushing 660HP just to one up Ford.

[Z4me]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

To be honest, I really don't care because I have no plans of racing one. My ZL1 is going to be a DD to just enjoy, and put my foot in once in a while. Also there is the thing of someone always being faster. Even Dodge released information that the 2013 Viper will be a 8 Liter pushing 660HP just to one up Ford.

[SIRLOIN]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

To be honest, I really don't care because I have no plans of racing one. My ZL1 is going to be a DD to just enjoy, and put my foot in once in a while. Also there is the thing of someone always being faster. Even Dodge released information that the 2013 Viper will be a 8 Liter pushing 660HP just to one up Ford.

When did Dodge release the info of the motor for the 2013 Viper? I haven't seen that yet.

Also, if 660hp is true, they didn't one up Ford. 2013 GT500 makes 670hp at 7k rpm. Just sayin...

[S-eatin-grin]

I've always loved Mopar muscle...they are quietly producing some nice stuff

[f ê r]

Originally Posted by MauriSSio

just because they tried to benchmark the GT doesnt mean they actually succeeded in it.

Well, according to Jamal Hameedi in a recent Live Chat talk, the '13 GT500 is faster than the Ford GT around the road course, and performance from 0-150mph is very similar.

Ford: We just had a question come in from one of our Google+ fans...

Google+ fan: I'm a big fan of the Ford GT. Between the Shelby GT500 and the Ford GT which one is the superior performer?

Jamal Hameedi: To our friend on Google+. The GT500 and the Ford GT are pretty different vehicles—but we bench marked the GT quite a bit. The GT500 and GT are roughly similar in performance up to 150 MPH and the GT500 is faster on a road course.

[ffrcobra_65]

Originally Posted by f ê r

Well, according to Jamal Hameedi in a recent Live Chat talk, the '13 GT500 is faster than the Ford GT around the road course, and performance from 0-150mph is very similar.

Ford: We just had a question come in from one of our Google+ fans...

Google+ fan: I'm a big fan of the Ford GT. Between the Shelby GT500 and the Ford GT which one is the superior performer?

Jamal Hameedi: To our friend on Google+. The GT500 and the Ford GT are pretty different vehicles—but we bench marked the GT quite a bit. The GT500 and GT are roughly similar in performance up to 150 MPH and the GT500 is faster on a road course.

if that last statement is indeed true, that pretty much ends all arguments. But really, who cares, I am not lusting over the new GT500 as I am over the ZL1. It may end up slower (very likely) but at the end of the day, the difference in performance times can vary depending on who is driving.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 7CAMARO7

Chevy benchmarked the gt500 & the boss 302 to make the ZL1. Ford is using the Ford GT to benchmark the '13 GT500. Think about it... Let that settle in.

Alright, that being noted with the Ford GT being the baddest Ford from the factory, it leads me to think there is a reasonable chance the '13 GT500 will out perform our ZL1.

I think the easiest fix would be to change the '13 ZL1 badge to something else (perhaps Z28 or SS). Maybe change the badge name on the current SS to maybe Z28. I think the name changes should come with more options as well. The ZL1 name should be protected. This situation is just a matter of bad timing with the 650hp beast coming out.

Or for '13 ZL1 just improve the LS9 to 670hp and make it 680-700 for the ZR1.

Otherwise I just feel that I will be forced to see the ZL1 be embarrassed in one way or the other. Time will tell.

Name change, bad timing, Really???
It's competition. It's like poker, if you want to stay in the game anty up!

Name change...that would really give them something to gloat about.

[f ê r]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

if that last statement is indeed true, that pretty much ends all arguments. But really, who cares, I am not lusting over the new GT500 as I am over the ZL1. It may end up slower (very likely) but at the end of the day, the difference in performance times can vary depending on who is driving.

True that! The Ford GT is slower than a Z06 and "I will always..." take the FGT any-day between the two.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by ffrcobra_65

if that last statement is indeed true, that pretty much ends all arguments. But really, who cares, I am not lusting over the new GT500 as I am over the ZL1. It may end up slower (very likely) but at the end of the day, the difference in performance times can vary depending on who is driving.

And I would take the GT any day over the GT500, regardless of performance numbers. The GT "is" the superior car. See that, numbers are "not" everything!!!

[2ndCamaro79]

I agree with Radz28 "we might just be stuck", but like Radz mentions, I really don't think we should hang our heads. The ZL1 is going to be a great car and I believe overall the best Camaro ever built. What is a little sad to me is, the Camaro has always been a little more powerful and bigger than the Mustang. Even the current MotorTrend article (ZL1 vs Boss) admitted to that. On the same hand Mustang has always out sold the Camaro and production has never stopped. Ford is a very proud company and so are their followers. With the 5th Gen Camaro stealing the Mustangs sales crown for the first time (that I know of) Ford is pissed. I don't think Ford has ever been this pissed at Chevy. We made fun of them during the superbowl and the Camaro is running away with the sales crown. It looks to me as if Ford is willing to do anything to kick some sand in GMs face. If Ford is truly benchmarking the $150,000 Ford GT they are hott!! Ford GT was Fords answer to the Ferrari not the Camaro. If they are willing to spend that much money on the Mustang "we might be stuck". Ford has deep pockets and of course they don't have a big brother flagship sports car like we do. Ford just might decide to make the new Shelby their do it all sports car? If they want to make this a Mustang vs Vett, Viper battle and destroy the rivalry thats up to them. All of that being said the Car and Driver guess numbers for the Shelby were not that far off from the ZL1s. BUT if the Shelby has the straight line numbers of the Ford GT well ..................

[2cnd chance]

In history it was always the Mustang VS Camaro, and the Shelby Mustang VS Corvette. We now have a Camaro worthy of competing against the Shelby...Be Proud!

[2ndCamaro79]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

In history it was always the Mustang VS Camaro, and the Shelby Mustang VS Corvette. We now have a Camaro worthy of competing against the Shelby...Be Proud!

That Shelby is created by SVT, and in the 4th Generation the SS Camaro had no problem kicking the #$% out of the SVT Mustangs

[f ê r]

Originally Posted by 2ndCamaro79

I agree with Radz28 "we might just be stuck", but like Radz mentions, I really don't think we should hang our heads. The ZL1 is going to be a great car and I believe overall the best Camaro ever built. What is a little sad to me is, the Camaro has always been a little more powerful and bigger than the Mustang. Even the current MotorTrend article (ZL1 vs Boss) admitted to that. On the same hand Mustang has always out sold the Camaro and production has never stopped. Ford is a very proud company and so are their followers. With the 5th Gen Camaro stealing the Mustangs sales crown for the first time (that I know of) Ford is pissed. I don't think Ford has ever been this pissed at Chevy. We made fun of them during the superbowl and the Camaro is running away with the sales crown. It looks to me as if Ford is willing to do anything to kick some sand in GMs face. If Ford is truly benchmarking the $150,000 Ford GT they are hott!! Ford GT was Fords answer to the Ferrari not the Camaro. If they are willing to spend that much money on the Mustang "we might be stuck". Ford has deep pockets and of course they don't have a big brother flagship sports car like we do. Ford just might decide to make the new Shelby their do it all sports car? If they want to make this a Mustang vs Vett, Viper battle and destroy the rivalry thats up to them. All of that being said the Car and Driver guess numbers for the Shelby were not that far off from the ZL1s. BUT if the Shelby has the straight line numbers of the Ford GT well ..................

Of course GM is selling more Camaros, the car was in hiatus for over 7 year and the new one is a nice piece of engineering; minus the interior . Plus the absence of the Trans Am is helping too.

Just imagine the scenario of Ford stopping the production of the Mustang for 5-8 years and suddenly announce that its making a comeback. Sells would be all over the roof.

[Uneducated Guess]

Something to chew on...

My father-in-law is the finance manager at a ford dealership and we were discussing the ZL1 and the '13 GT500. I asked him what he thought MSRP would be for the GT500 and he said he fully expects it to be some where around 67-68k BASE. He admits that he doesn't know for sure but he's been at his job for a good while now and I would assume he has a pretty good idea. Take it for what it's worth. I think it might be a little high for a guesstimation but probably not too far off.

[Z4me]

Well good to have choices in the matter, I've owned a couple GT's in the past. But besides who is faster it's a matter of styling and comfort etc.
I prefer the styling of the new gen 5 camaro's over the current mustangs
being offered. Everyone will have thier own opinions of why they have chosen one over the other.
I'm just thankfull for the choice which pushes Dodge, Ford, and Chevy to
come up with new and better products for us to enjoy.

I honestly can't see myself ever going above 110 mph at a track one day.

[2ndCamaro79]

Originally Posted by f ê r

Of course GM is selling more Camaros, the car was in hiatus for over 7 year and the new one is a nice piece of engineering; minus the interior . Plus the absence of the Trans Am is helping too.

Just imagine the scenario of Ford stopping the production of the Mustang for 5-8 years and suddenly announce that its making a comeback. Sells would be all over the roof.

I think the Camaro is beating the Mustang in sales because 1. Most people think it looks better and 2. Its a and that will get ya Megan Fox

[f ê r]

Originally Posted by 2ndCamaro79

I think the Camaro is beating the Mustang in sales because 1. Most people think it looks better and 2. Its a and that will get ya Megan Fox

Hahaha

But I doubt you'll get Megan Fox w/ a mullet

[S-eatin-grin]

I remember my Ford friends being white-hot pissed about the 2010 Camaro SS versus their newly designed 2010 Mustang GT's...especially those that bought a 2010 and the very next year the mustang got an extra 100+ hp.

The Gen 5 Camaro was the best Camar ever built and the ZL1 will be the same. We'll just have to wait a year or so to trump the Ford guys again...all of us are winning from this. I love that the pony war is such a moving target.