Wow My wife is being very nice this month--Headers

[PQ]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

You know what I am finding to be the worst thing about this board anymore? It is impossible to help people and give advice, because everyone wants to feverishly cheerlead whatever they have on their car, and try and discount vendor advice as biased. At the end of the day..you own one Camaro..and chose to mod it in a a questionable manner. I on the other hand have two Camaro's in various states of modificatios..and damn near went completely over one of them last year. I also have a dyno, have worked on several customers Camaro's, and have a warehouse full of various Camaro parts. So I suggest before you discount what I have to say..you take a long hard look in the mirror and decide just what you have going that makes you so repuatable.

Rarely do we here the shops here on the boards disagree on the black and white things like Long Tubes and Shorties.

Sure, maybe the occasional How much boost on a stock bottom end or what headers are best in apples to apples (long tubes to long tubes) or maybe shich CAI is best but things like this are pretty universally agreed upon.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by Quick

To answer your question ...Yes...better sound,more torque and more horsepower.

Now you can believe me...thats what I'm running or you can believe Mr salesman up there because...well he has a dyno and a bunch of camaro parts. I'm not trying to sell you anything.

Sorry your thread got hijacked.

I will have to agree, I gained 20RWHP and about 25RWTQ with the shorties and cats. Would I have gained more with LT's and a tune, sure will. But for me I made a promise not to void the warranty, and I'm sticking to that promise.

[SlingShot]

Originally Posted by PQ

Rarely do we here the shops here on the boards disagree on the black and white things like Long Tubes and Shorties.

Sure, maybe the occasional How much boost on a stock bottom end or what headers are best in apples to apples (long tubes to long tubes) or maybe shich CAI is best but things like this are pretty universally agreed upon.

I think the bigger question should be, why do they then sell a product they don't believe in ?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

I will have to agree, I gained 20RWHP and about 25RWTQ with the shorties and cats. Would I have gained more with LT's and a tune, sure will. But for me I made a promise not to void the warranty, and I'm sticking to that promise.

Perfectly understandable post.

Long tubes will gain you closer to 60+. But to save the warranty and stay in compliance it's a good compromise I guess.

Looking into the shorties in various places it seems that you did REALLY good to gain what you gained.

Originally Posted by SlingShot

I think the bigger question should be, why do they then sell a product they don't believe in ?

Same reason you just gave for buying them. If you have to stay compliant and want to keep your warranty not to tune.

Cosmetics, sound, and a little extra power. Just nothing compared to long tubes.

Assuming you're asking why they still sell and install the shorties.

[Quick]

Originally Posted by PQ

Perfectly understandable post.

Long tubes will gain you closer to 60+. But to save the warranty and stay in compliance it's a good compromise I guess.

Looking into the shorties in various places it seems that you did REALLY good to gain what you gained. Same reason you just gave for buying them. If you have to stay compliant and want to keep your warranty not to tune.

Cosmetics, sound, and a little extra power. Just nothing compared to long tubes.

Assuming you're asking why they still sell and install the shorties.

60 hp from longtube headers? really?


Read this:



JANNETTY RACING HEADER TEST RESULTS
First let me say Thanks to Nick American Racing Headers for building us all 3 size headers, cat converters and test pipes, and related hardware.

Just to keep things Fair I Purchased these Headers for the Test.

Our Test Car is none other than, Bigdogs LS3 Camaro used in our CAI test.
This Car is 100% Stock other than the Headers installed for the Testing.

Stock Peak Numbers 373 RWHP 378 RWTQ
Stock Average Numbers I will post tomorow Forgot to print them.

1.75 long tube headers w high flow cats Peak 401.1 HP 403.8 TQ
1.75 long tube headers w high flow cats Average 281.2 HP 363.9 TQ

1.875 long tube headers w high flow cats Peak 406.8 HP 407.5 TQ
1.875 long tube headers w high flow cats Average 283.7 HP 366.6 TQ

2.0 long tube headers w high flow cats Peak 411.7 HP 408.9 TQ
2.0 long tube headers w high flow cats Average 288.1 HP 368.1 TQ

The 1 3/4 Headers did Surprisingly well.
The 1 7/8 Headers IMO are the best all around header.
The 2.0 Headers are neck and neck with the 1 7/8 but Slightly stronger from 5000 to 6300



Stock Peak Numbers 373 RWHP 378 RWTQ


1.75 long tube headers w high flow cats Peak 401.1 HP 403.8 TQ

Looks like 28 horsepower to me and that is when used with hi-flo cats...disappointing isn't it?

But,you can say Ted doesn't know what he is talking about...or stop believing these jacked up numbers that they claim with LTs.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Quick

60 hp from longtube headers? really?

Looks like 28 horsepower to me and that is when used with hi-flo cats...disappointing isn't it? But,you can say Ted doesn't know what he is talking about...or stop believing these jacked up numbers that they claim with LTs.

Whoa. Calm down. When was I a smart ass. I didn't attack you. I only made observations. Mine was based on what typically is the norm which is long tubes, tune and CAI. Did Ted tune that car as well?

HEADERS alone without a tune and intake will net much more than shorties normally. If the guy I talking to (SlingShot) gained that 20hp 25tq by adding ONLY headers and NOTHING else then we have a point of debate.

So tell me why most want long tubes?

And BTW, those long tubes tested may have just been shitty headers. I'd expect more than that on headers alone.

Who knows. But I"m just making observations on what I see and hear. I admitted that.

But if you think that shorty headers are going to have the gains, even within 10 hp, that longtubes typically have you might be disapointed.

[PQ]

BTW, you chose the 1 3/4 long tubes to make your argument.

The 2" made 40 hp with not tune.

Fact is , you normally tune the car with long tubes. which puts you around the 65+ hp number I mentioned.

[Quick]

Excuse me? I'm neither livid,mad or upset. I'm as calm as a man can be.I didn't attack you in any way shape or form. Possibly the way you read it.

So when I show you proof positive(in black and white print) from one if not the most respected vendor on this forum,you still refuse to believe the truth.Even though you
personally admit that you know NOTHING about them.

What would Ted gain from using "shitty" headers in his test? He did the test on his dime and bought all the headers out of pocket.

Truth be known...all LTs will put out the same hp (being of same size),some are constructed with better materials and will last longer making them a better buy in the longhaul.You pay for what you get.

[PAUL SS]

$0.02....... The problem with shorties is probably the same as factory exhaust manifolds, the exhaust pulse from one cylinder can affect another cylinder on the same side because the collector is so close to the exhaust port. With a long tube header that pulse can help to create a scavenging effect.

[Quick]

Originally Posted by PQ

BTW, you chose the 1 3/4 long tubes to make your argument.

The 2" made 40 hp with not tune.

Fact is , you normally tune the car with long tubes. which puts you around the 65+ hp number I mentioned.

I used the 1 3/4 LTs because thats the size of my shortys.

I'm sure 2" shortys would flow better than 1 3/4 shortys...
its all relative.

The "tune" was the strength of my argument or saving the 500.00
by not having to get a tune with the shortys

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Quick

Excuse me? I'm neither livid,mad or upset. I'm as calm as a man can be.I didn't attack you in any way shape or form. Possibly the way you read it.

So when I show you proof positive(in black and white print) from one if not the most respected vendor on this forum,you still refuse to believe the truth.Even though you
personally admit that you know NOTHING about them.

What would Ted gain from using "shitty" headers in his test? He did the test on his dime and bought all the headers out of pocket.

Truth be known...all LTs will put out the same hp (being of same size),some are constructed with better materials and will last longer making them a better buy in the longhaul.You pay for what you get.

Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't give a shit what headers are better for whoever. I'm making observations. And WTF do you mean I refuse to believe the truth? Where did I doubt that OR Teds test? I respect Ted and send people his way often. I really don't know anyone that does long tubes and NOT tune.

Answer my questions.

Did Ted tune that car? I'm guessing NO.

So, now show me the test with shorties and nothing else?

Your original post in this thread has now made you a hypocrite. Go back and read it because you were talking about yourself.

Enjoy Camaro 5 it's good to have passionate members here. Even with slow shorty headers.

If you can't laugh at that joke then I don't know.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Quick

I used the 1 3/4 LTs because thats the size of my shortys.

I'm sure 2" shortys would flow better than 1 3/4 shortys...
its all relative.

The "tune" was the strength of my argument or saving the 500.00
by not having to get a tune with the shortys

And by the same token that was our point. With long tubes you tune the car. To get shorties AND tune would be kinda dumb maybe. Why not just get ling tubes at that point?

[Quick]

Originally Posted by PQ

Don't put words in my mouth.

I don't give a shit what headers are better for whoever. I'm making observations. And WTF do you mean I refuse to believe the truth? Where did I doubt that OR Teds test? I respect Ted and send people his way often. I really don't know anyone that does long tubes and NOT tune.

Answer my questions.

Did Ted tune that car? I'm guessing NO.

So, now show me the test with shorties and nothing else?

Your original post in this thread has now made you a hypocrite. Go back and read it because you were talking about yourself.

Enjoy Camaro 5 it's good to have passionate members here. Even with slow shorty headers.

If you can't laugh at that joke then I don't know.

Don't put words in my mouth. ..I didnt but I did hit a nerve.


So, now show me the test with shorties and nothing else? ...

so you want to test shortys with nothing else against LTs with hi-flo cats and a tune.You really think thats fair?


I don't give a shit what headers are better for whoever....I can tell.


And WTF do you mean I refuse to believe the truth? Where did I doubt that OR Teds test?....

ummm about where you said you expected more out of Lts and that Ted
probably used shitty headers. THAT CONSTITUTES DOUBT IN MY BOOK.


You believe whatever it takes to get you through the day...even if its wrong.


I enjoyed ouy little chat up to the point where you got mad and started cussing.Have a good day.

[camslambam]

PQ why do you even bother?

If he wants to be slow let him be slow.

I'd be pretty mad if I was hitting like 330rwhp when everyone else was hitting 360+.

[blazzin1]

Yeah Randy, don't let this guy get your feathers all ruffled!!! I think it is fairly common knowledge that LT's are far superior to Shorties when it comes to performance. Yes, the Shorties are cheaper, and yes, they stand a better chance of keeping your warranty since you don't necessarily need a tune. But....swap out those cats, and the dealer will probably shoot down your warranty anyway (even without a tune).

To the OP: Yes with H/F Cats and Shorty Headers your car will certainly sound better, and you might see some "minimal" HP gains.

[Quick]

Originally Posted by camslambam

PQ why do you even bother?

If he wants to be slow let him be slow.

I'd be pretty mad if I was hitting like 330rwhp when everyone else was hitting 360+.

When you can't win a argument...get mad beat your chest and put the other guys car down because yours is faster.

When all is said and done...you still lost the argument and people get to see you act like a child that can't get their way.

[camslambam]

Originally Posted by Quick

When you can't win a argument...get mad beat your chest and put the other guys car down because yours is faster.

When all is said and done...you still lost the argument and people get to see you act like a child that can't get their way.

[bersterman]

Originally Posted by camslambam

Man, this short vs lt debate is turning into the auto vs manual and v8 vs v6 debates lololol.

...too funny!

[MarylandSpeed]

I think it is time to bring out the video of a man dancing with his dog...

[Nathan Moreno]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

I think it is time to bring out the video of a man dancing with his dog...

Thanks for posting! That's almost as entertaining as the debate, LOL.

[PQ]

Shorty headers defy the laws of physics in Quicks car.

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by PQ

Shorty headers defy the laws of physics in Quicks car.

Hey..if a dog can dance on it's hind paws for almost 5 minutes with a man.....

[PQ]

[Quick]

You guys want to start this up again? You both got your butts kicked pretty bad
the first time...Do you really need it again?

[PQ]

Right. How'd we get our butts kicked again.

I never did see those shorty test numbers.