Wow My wife is being very nice this month--Headers

[mclark10]

Wow, I'm so shocked this thread has turned into a short tube-long tube debate. What never seems to get mentioned is that not everyone takes their car to the quarter mile every Friday night. The closest dragway to me is about 70 miles away. What am I going to do, snap an axle then walk home? Some of us are just looking for a few HPs and better looks. DT shorties and HF cats are about $1000 new. No tune, no warranty issues because of tune. Bottom line, not everyone on here is looking for the same thing.

[Quick]

As I said before,I dont have numbers for the shortys.Your friend from maryland speed who
happens to own a dyno and sells shortys said they were good for ten (10) horsepower and Solo guarantees twenty (20) horsepower from their hi-flo midpipes ...so 30 horsepower sounds right to me ...course you can get more with a tune.


Ted proved with his test that 1 3/4 LTs with hi-flo cats put out 28 horsepower and they werent shitty headers (as you thought) they were AMERICAN RACING HEADERS.

I'll give you a couple hours to research and come up something proving I'm wrong...tick tick tick.

[Quick]

Originally Posted by mclark10

Wow, I'm so shocked this thread has turned into a short tube-long tube debate. What never seems to get mentioned is that not everyone takes their car to the quarter mile every Friday night. The closest dragway to me is about 70 miles away. What am I going to do, snap an axle then walk home? Some of us are just looking for a few HPs and better looks. DT shorties and HF cats are about $1000 new. No tune, no warranty issues because of tune. Bottom line, not everyone on here is looking for the same thing.

Thank you....but to a few on here thats NOT good enough..IF you dont build a race car they poke fun at you and put your car down.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by mclark10

Wow, I'm so shocked this thread has turned into a short tube-long tube debate. What never seems to get mentioned is that not everyone takes their car to the quarter mile every Friday night. The closest dragway to me is about 70 miles away. What am I going to do, snap an axle then walk home? Some of us are just looking for a few HPs and better looks. DT shorties and HF cats are about $1000 new. No tune, no warranty issues because of tune. Bottom line, not everyone on here is looking for the same thing.

Agreed. I still know nothing about shorty headers and neither does Quick. At least nothing he can post but the question was brought up and answered. I might not know a lot about them but one thing I"m confident in is they do not give the gains of long tubes.

But you are right, it's not what the OP asked for.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Quick

As I said before,I dont have numbers for the shortys.Your friend from maryland speed who
happens to own a dyno and sells shortys said they were good for ten (10) horsepower and Solo guarantees twenty (20) horsepower from their hi-flo midpipes ...so 30 horsepower sounds right to me ...course you can get more with a tune.


Ted proved with his test that 1 3/4 LTs with hi-flo cats put out 28 horsepower and they werent shitty headers (as you thought) they were AMERICAN RACING HEADERS.

I'll give you a couple hours to research and come up something proving I'm wrong...tick tick tick.

The thread is ABOUT getting shorties period. And not have to tune as you do with long tubes.

OBVIOUSLY if you tune with long tubes you will tune for performance as well. Not the stock, no tune test that Ted did.

Long tubes and tune, or shorties and no tune = big difference.

You are kinda cute though.

So everyone getting long tubes is just buying in to the false hype of 'The Man'. Do you believe in UFOs and 911 cover ups too.

[Quick]

OK,I'm sorry but I can't converse with you any longer. I answered your question with
FACTS and references.I posted manufactuers claims to their product and results from independent test conducted by the most trusted and respected vendor on this forum
to show you what I believe to be the truth.

The BEST you could do for rebuttal is UFOs and 911 coverups

I honestly thought you were capable of carring on a adult conversation...I guess I was wrong.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Quick

OK,I'm sorry but I can't converse with you any longer. I answered your question with
FACTS and references.I posted manufactuers claims to their product and results from independent test conducted by the most trusted and respected vendor on this forum
to show you what I believe to be the truth.

The BEST you could do for rebuttal is UFOs and 911 coverups

I honestly thought you were capable of carring on a adult conversation...I guess I was wrong.

NO, you believe that shorties give comparable power to long tubes. You have not proven that one bit.

BUT, this thread was ruined and I'm as responsible as anyone.

OP, I appologize.

[Quick]

NO, you believe that shorties give comparable power to long tubes. You have not proven that one bit.

Are you blind or just in denial? In every post I have shown you proof.

Show me one post of yours where you have proven to me that I'm wrong.

just one post...i'm waiting.

Show me where LTs and hi flo cats put out 65 plus hp. That was your argument.


THe amount of horsepower from LTS w/hi flo cats and a tune is due mainly from the cats and tune...NOT THE HEADERS.

[PQ]

OP, this will be my last post here. (EDIT: Failed on this one. lol)

Jr. needs some clarification.

My 65 hp point was that long tube headers need to be tuned. High flows or no cats or whatever, you get long tubes you tune them most of the time. Unless you can live with the engine codes.

So the debate was that shorties are good to stay in emissions compliance and not throw codes so you don't have to tune them.

HENCE, Tuned long tubes with high flows vs non tuned shorties.

I can show you plenty of posts of mine on this site where I perfectly understand how much a standard set of lth alone with no tune get's the gains you talked about and Ted posted. I get it. You didn't bring up any info that was profound to the discussion. Teds findings at the time were interesting because other headers were getting the same and better numbers at a much cheaper price. THere were header claims at the time of 100 hp tuned and 50 hp headers alone, which we all called BS on. Hell, TAG UR ITs headers un-tuned are about what Ted shows. I KNOW THAT.

THIS discussion was about Tuned long tubes versus shorties. The OP was concerned over throwing engine codes. It was obvious enough to me.

So you showed 'Proof' that was useless to the discussion. What WOULD have been useful to the thread is posting shorty info as that was what the OP called for.

So there you have it kid. I had to spell out for you what everyone else understood.

Again, thread ruined. Sorry.

[blazzin1]

Originally Posted by Quick

in "my" humble opinion...the bottleneck/restriction of the exhaust system is the cats.
I went with shorties because when used with solo highflow cats they give up very little horsepower as compared to LTs.

Originally Posted by Quick

I haven't had my car on a dyno yet but the butt-dyno says there is very little difference between them...driving its hard to tell maybe the LTs pull a little harder on the top end but the shorties will out torque them on the bottom.

Originally Posted by Quick

take two identical cars (same horsepower)...put LTs,hi flo cats and a tune on one.
now put shortys,hi-flo cats and a tune on the other. What do you suppose the horsepower would be between them?

I'm betting less than 10...That to me isnt worth it.

Are these your FACTS? I'm still trying to find your so-called PROOF that you keep saying that you have provided!!! And the Header test from Jannetty is comparing the different size of primary tubes on long tube headers.....it has absolutely NOTHING to do with any comparison to Shorty Headers. You have not provided ANY factual numbers concerning HP gains from Shorty Headers. I think the OP has the answers he is looking for. He has heard the opinions of many forum members and some extremely reputable vendors. But by continuing to argue your unsubstantiated point, you sir are becoming a troll. Arguing just for the sake of arguing. Just drop it already, we all know very clearly that you recommend Shorty Headers over Long Tubes.

[Quick]

Sir: I answer the op;s question ..you didnt.

I told him shortys would give him better sound,a little more hp and torque.

You and the other guy came into the thread telling us what we had was junk and useless and that we should get LTs because they were far superior to what we had.

Then when you couldn't convince us then you started poking fun at us and our cars.

Talking about ufos and 911 cover ups and dogs dancing on their hindlegs....lame.

Then when I showed you proof and that you were wrong you got mad and started cussing.

Then to try and strenghten your argument you acted like a third grader and said ..you didnt show me,you didnt show me,you didnt show me.

Yes..I showed you...you refused to believe it.

Oh...one more point I should prove you WRONG yet again.I'am NO kid...I'm 60 years old and retired. I've raced my entire life. I have built more engines than you have started.Take that to the bank.

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Quick

I've raced my entire life. I have built more engines than you have started.Take that to the bank.

Ok, I know I said I wouldn't post again but I have to this time.

BULL *HIT to this quote. OMG,

[Quick]

Originally Posted by blazzin1

Are these your FACTS? I'm still trying to find your so-called PROOF that you keep saying that you have provided!!! And the Header test from Jannetty is comparing the different size of primary tubes on long tube headers.....it has absolutely NOTHING to do with any comparison to Shorty Headers. You have not provided ANY factual numbers concerning HP gains from Shorty Headers. I think the OP has the answers he is looking for. He has heard the opinions of many forum members and some extremely reputable vendors. But by continuing to argue your unsubstantiated point, you sir are becoming a troll. Arguing just for the sake of arguing. Just drop it already, we all know very clearly that you recommend Shorty Headers over Long Tubes.

Dude i'm not going to argue with ever misinformed member of this forum.
First: To get an idea of who i'm conversing with. Just answer the question.
Have you ever use a set of shorty headers wit a set of hi flo cats?

[Camarowguy]

Wow. This has turned into quite the debate. Let me butt in....

First off, maryland speed, why do you always get yourself into a pissing match? I think you should follow the likes of Ted and some of the other vendors and let the forum members duke it out. Your definitely not going to increase your sales by the way your going about it. Your opinion is well respected, but I wouldn't butt into these types of debates in your position. Just sayin....

Next: here's a dyno test on shorties http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...orty+dyno+test

Looks like they lost power. Now, I've said this before and I'll say it again....because I know it to be fact:
Your biggest gain in the header/cats area on a stock/bolt on engine is found in the cat area. Think about it. 20-25rwhp is freed up by switching to mids with high flow cats. Around 30rwhp is freed up with long tubes AND high flow cats. Now. If you think about those facts, what does it tell you? Long tubes are worth about 5-10hp on their own. You can't test that theory because you can't just put long tubes on with all four factory cats. So you have to do a little research and some easy math. And what you come up with is what I stated above.

In my opinion, if your looking for that last couple hp, get the long tubes. If your trying to maximize you mods to dollars spent, just do the mids.

In a forced induction, cam, heads, nitrous applications....the long tubes will be worth a bit more than on a stock engine. In other words, when your stock, you don't need them as much as when your putting out a bit more power. Now....let the pissing resume lol

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Quick

You and the other guy came into the thread telling us what we had was junk and useless and that we should get LTs because they were far superior to what we had.

Please show me one example of me doing that? You are dead wrong. I am not here to 'Correct misinformation' or 'Argue with every member of this sight who is misinformed'. As you claim to be. I'm here to lend help where I can, learn a few things and have fun with our members.

I'll make it easy for you, here are my first posts in this thread. Please show me where I did what you claim I did?

And 4 of your first 7 posts. You are a Troll. Self admited you will argue with every misinformed member on this site. We don't need you here if this is what you are here for.

[2010 4 DW]

Originally Posted by camslambam

I'm currently running 6xx rwhp.
Aiming for 7xx in the near future.
Through a stock bottom end L99.

Could you please point me to any other L99 running these numbers through shorties and no spray?

Looks like JBA shorties and mids are working pretty well as Padre is making 619rwhp through the AUTO. Shorties do VERY well when you pair them up with mids. You cannot compare LT's with mids and a tune vs Shorties with factory cats and NO tune. "Duh"

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...highlight=jba*

[PQ]

Originally Posted by Camarowguy

Wow. This has turned into quite the debate. Let me butt in....

First off, maryland speed, why do you always get yourself into a pissing match? I think you should follow the likes of Ted and some of the other vendors and let the forum members duke it out. Your definitely not going to increase your sales by the way your going about it. Your opinion is well respected, but I wouldn't butt into these types of debates in your position. Just sayin....

Next: here's a dyno test on shorties http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...orty+dyno+test

Looks like they lost power. Now, I've said this before and I'll say it again....because I know it to be fact:
Your biggest gain in the header/cats area on a stock/bolt on engine is found in the cat area. Think about it. 20-25rwhp is freed up by switching to mids with high flow cats. Around 30rwhp is freed up with long tubes AND high flow cats. Now. If you think about those facts, what does it tell you? Long tubes are worth about 5-10hp on their own. You can't test that theory because you can't just put long tubes on with all four factory cats. So you have to do a little research and some easy math. And what you come up with is what I stated above.

In my opinion, if your looking for that last couple hp, get the long tubes. If your trying to maximize you mods to dollars spent, just do the mids.

In a forced induction, cam, heads, nitrous applications....the long tubes will be worth a bit more than on a stock engine. In other words, when your stock, you don't need them as much as when your putting out a bit more power. Now....let the pissing resume lol

Wow. NO gain at all on shorties?

So why do shorties at all? And they seemed to expect it. Ted even said it's what he expected.

I'm confused now. Do shorties give that much better sound? With next to no power gains why do them?

[PQ]

Originally Posted by 2010 4 DW

Looks like JBA shorties and mids are working pretty well as Padre is making 619rwhp through the AUTO. Shorties do VERY well when you pair them up with mids. You cannot compare LT's with mids and a tune vs Shorties with factory cats and NO tune. "Duh"

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...highlight=jba*

The 'duh' in red was only to show Mario 'Quick' Andretti the point I was making.

The OP was concerned about throwing engine codes. So considering the goal was doing headers and NOT getting engine codes your choices are 1)get long tubes and tune them, or 2)get shorties and not have to tune them. THAT's the comparison angle I was seeing. From the aspect of the OPs concern and because long tubes were brought up.

I admitted right away that I didn't know much about shorties. So to me the comparison was not "Are long tubes better than shorties" but "Are long tubes better for the OP than shorties. And in that scenario (headers and no tune) the shorties will be WAY less power. That was my only point. And I don't need to know much about shorties to know that.

[camslambam]

Wow 4 pages of garbage.

OP buy what you want.
Quick change name to slow.

I'll continue to rock 600+rwhp with my LTs and take advice from the knowledgeable and not the fanboys.

[Camarowguy]

Originally Posted by camslambam

Wow 4 pages of garbage.

OP buy what you want.
Quick change name to slow.

I'll continue to rock 600+rwhp with my LTs and take advice from the knowledgeable and not the fanboys.

You contributed a fair share of garbage in a thread I was reading earlier today.......

Btw, we know your proud of your 600rwhp, but there's no need to boast about it numerous times in numerous threads. 600rwhp is not that uncommon with these cars these days. Just sayin.....

[ToddB]

Heres some info. Dyno is on page 4. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185845

[Camarowguy]

Originally Posted by ToddB

Heres some info. Dyno is on page 4. http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=185845

The only thing I wonder is if the just bolted those on in place of manifolds or did something with the cats but just didn't mention it.

[ToddB]

Originally Posted by Camarowguy

The only thing I wonder is if the just bolted those on in place of manifolds or did something with the cats but just didn't mention it.

I suppose its possible but lou works for ARH and I don't think they would do that. Did you read from the first page. Ted is the one who started the thread so I think it was with stock cats and exhaust.

[Quick]

This will be my last post in this thread as I think it has ran it course.

I would like to apologize to anyone that I may have offended.

I am not a kid,troll,junior or an Idiot. as I have been called in this thread.I am someone who has spent most of his life drag racing and loving fast cars.When I know something to be a fact I'm very adamant about it.

As I stated in one of my posts I recently removed long tube headers (due to damage)and hi-flo cats from my car.I was at the point of getting the car tuned but it never materialized. I was alerted by a c5 member that they had a closeout sale on Edelbrock headers (cheap) so I purchased a set and bought a set of solo cats (used)
from a friend of a friend. When I put the combination on the car I was surprised that there was very little seat-of-the-pants difference in the feel between the two setups.The shortys w/hfc gave up very little horsepower to the Lts w/hfc...down low the shorty combo felt better (more torque) but didnt pull as good on top as the LT combo did but it was a minute difference.

I was running both sets of headers through stock exhaust(l99) and the car wasnt tuned with either set. So when I say there was little difference it was from firsthand experience.
So when someone said LTS make far more superior power as compared to shortys
I had to voice my opinion.I will go to bed tonight knowing that there is little difference between the two when using hi-flo cats. Now for the tune.I have NEVER
had a tune on my car and the reason for that is I would like to keep my warranty.

Would a tune allow the LTs to make more power than the shorty setup? Of course
it would. How much more? I have no idea. would a tune boost the power of the shorty setup? I'm sure it would.But if I was going to get a tune,which I'm NOT I would certainly go with the lts.

I bought my car to be lightly modified but keep it as a dependable daily driver.MY chevelle I sold ran high 9's @ over 140 1/4 mile with a big block/glide.I have no intentions of turning my camaro into a race car so I have to make decisions that are good for me and resist the urge to follow most of the guys on this forum.

When a person posts on the board about shortys and high flow cats try not to force him into buying LTs because that person may have a different goal than yours.If that person
said he wanted headers and all the hp he could get. I wouldn't talk him into shortys just because I use them.

Different strokes for different folks...Again sorry if I was so adamant that I offended anyone and Thanks to those that stepped up and tried to help me get my point across.It was much appreciated.

[Drew10]

In an effort to lighten the mood, sounds like your wife is up to something. That is all.