tsp vvt3 cam gains compared to non vvt cam gains

[InfernoSS454]

I don't want to start any arguement on which is better. I was just wondering what rwhp people are getting with tsp vvt3 cam compared to what others are getting with vengeance cams and jre 470 cams. I know their all good and reliable cams I was just wondering cus I may soon cam my camaro shortly.

[CFD]

I installed the VVT-3 cam a few weeks ago, I have not dynoed my car but can tell you there is a substantial gain in power, I am still waiting to dial in my tune but even as is it runs real strong.

[InfernoSS454]

Sounds good keep me posted when you get the dyno tune. Did you port the heads when you got the cam installed.

[camslambam]

Reliability trumps 20-30 more rwhp imo.

[InfernoSS454]

Yea I agree with you about reliability but their all reliable from what I have gathered.

[camslambam]

Only if the installer and tuner know what they're doing.
It's still pretty new technology and not very many people have developed substantial aftermarket mods into it.

[brantley847]

Originally Posted by InfernoSS454

Yea I agree with you about reliability but their all reliable from what I have gathered.

As stated.. it is newer technology with the aftermarket VVT cams. Not enough time devoted to say it is or is not reliable. I wouldn't say it isn't, but you absolutely cannot say it is this early in the game. As stated, installers have been the problem. Not many installers/tuners feel very comfortable doing this work, and the major engine failures have been because of shotty installs. I trust guys like Mike Norris, Ted Jannetty, and if they say go conversion and they will be my tuner, I just feel better going that route. I only went with the conversion for a better foundation for FI down the road.

Now, VVT3 is pretty aggressive and many have stated they did it without a stall... but they recommended it or you would lose drive ability. The conversion will allow you to go a bit more aggressive and ultimately build a foundation for better results. I would say if you compared two similar cams as far as size and specifications, the VVT will out perform by 10-20. However, the LS3 just seems to give us more freedom, to go bigger as we need to with a much, much greater selection. I know Lethal produced a cam that was pushing near 90-100, just like the VVT.

[kaler]

Originally Posted by camslambam

Reliability trumps 20-30 more rwhp imo.

I have done a stupid amount of research on the VVT system GM uses, I can not find one case of a cam phaser failing in a modified or stock engine. Please show me proof that VVT is not reliable. I'm sure one has failed $hit breaks I just can't find it. Just because some thing is more complex or has more moving parts does not make it unreliable the cam phaser it self is a very simple part.

[CFD]

Originally Posted by InfernoSS454

Sounds good keep me posted when you get the dyno tune. Did you port the heads when you got the cam installed.

I am not planning on getting it on a dyno just havingbthe tune dialed in. I did do some work on the heads.

[CFD]

Originally Posted by kaler

I have done a stupid amount of research on the VVT system GM uses, I can not find one case of a cam phaser failing in a modified or stock engine. Please show me proof that VVT is not reliable. I'm sure one has failed $hit breaks I just can't find it. Just because some thing is more complex or has more moving parts does not make it unreliable the cam phaser it self is a very simple part.

I did a good amount of reasearch as well and have talked to some very reliable sources and have come to the conclusion that the vvt is very reliable, it's the afm/dod that can be unreliable. The way I look at is everytime something new comes out many people have negative things to say, if everyone looked at it like that we would all be driving model t's. I payed for the technology and plan on using it.

[CFD]

Originally Posted by camslambam

Only if the installer and tuner know what they're doing.
It's still pretty new technology and not very many people have developed substantial aftermarket mods into it.

The installation is quite straight forward and almost the exact same as a non vvt cam. Tunning, for an experienced tuner is also no different than tunning a conventional cam with the exception of the phaser tables but they are supplied with the cam so it's taken out of the equation

[camslambam]

Originally Posted by kaler

Just because some thing is more complex or has more moving parts does not make it unreliable the cam phaser it self is a very simple part.

Think about the most reliable type of engines.
How many moving parts do they have

[kaler]

To the OP see my SIG. I have picked up 121 RWHP over stock and FWIW that is thru a converter that is un locked at WOT.

[CFD]

Originally Posted by camslambam

Think about the most reliable type of engines.
How many moving parts do they have

So i gather this means a four cylinder engine is more reliable than an eight cylinder engine and a 60's technology v8 is more reliable than a modern day one?

[kaler]

Originally Posted by camslambam

Think about the most reliable type of engines.
How many moving parts do they have

I have seen you say VVT is unreliable countless times on here, please enlighten me what exactly do you base that on? I have asked you this question before with no answer,so at this point I will assume you have no basis.

[camslambam]

Originally Posted by CFD

So i gather this means a four cylinder engine is more reliable than an eight cylinder engine and a 60's technology v8 is more reliable than a modern day one?

Last I checked I see 4cyl pushing way above their limits, but then 8cyl are blowing up all over the place.
And last I checked we use push rod engines which IS old technology .

[camslambam]

Originally Posted by kaler

I have seen you say VVT is unreliable countless times on here, please enlighten me what exactly do you base that on? I have asked you this question before with no answer,so at this point I will assume you have no basis.

What does your motor spin at?

Also all you have is a cam setup. Throw in FI or spray with VVT and let me know how far you get. There's a reason all high HP guys are running ls3 conversions - its proven. If you want to use your car as a test mule for VVT limits I would be very very interested and would subscribe at once to your post.

[InfernoSS454]

Kaler that 121rwhp gain was with the ported heads. Those are nice numbers.

[brantley847]

Originally Posted by kaler

To the OP see my SIG. I have picked up 121 RWHP over stock and FWIW that is thru a converter that is un locked at WOT.

121! YOU SIR, ARE A MONSTER!!

OP, the best advice we can give you is call texas-speed or mast and ask them about their VVT cams. Then call Ted and ask about the conversion ..make your choice from there. I don't think neither is right or wrong, but I did feel after adding FI, the conversion would be a safer bet for me...but the VVT is incredible, Kaler alone almost had me sold on the VVT.. but I was afraid to do the VVT3. I just wanted the freedom to choose more with the conversion. Again, no one is right or wrong.

[kaler]

Originally Posted by camslambam

What does your motor spin at?

Also all you have is a cam setup. Throw in FI or spray with VVT and let me know how far you get. There's a reason all high HP guys are running ls3 conversions - its proven. If you want to use your car as a test mule for VVT limits I would be very very interested and would subscribe at once to your post.

My car shifts at 6800rpms.... Jason has taken there VVT cams with dual springs to 7800rpms many times during development to make sure every thing would stay together.The VVT-3 cam would be a very good cam for spray imop. If I was building a max effort engine I would use a static cam also ..

You didn't answer why VVT is not reliable again.

[InfernoSS454]

Yea I've already tried contacting tsp through a message on their website a couple days ago no answer. But that's ok maybe their website acting up or they didn't get it yet. I'm not worried about goin fi I just would like to get around 470rwhp.

[kaler]

Originally Posted by brantley847

121! YOU SIR, ARE A MONSTER!!

OP, the best advice we can give you is call texas-speed or mast and ask them about their VVT cams. Then call Ted and ask about the conversion ..make your choice from there. I don't think neither is right or wrong, but I did feel after adding FI, the conversion would be a safer bet for me...but the VVT is incredible, Kaler alone almost had me sold on the VVT.. but I was afraid to do the VVT3. I just wanted the freedom to choose more with the conversion. Again, no one is right or wrong.

Just for the record I absolutely under stand why people are reluctant about using VVT,it has not been proven in thousand of engines over many years.
There is a lot of miss information about VVT out there, and frankly I blame it on TSP, Mast,Nu era and all of the companies doing the development. I wish they would take the approach "we have the best VVT cams available" and here is why. They would sell a lot more and we would have more development if they would be an open book with there development and at the same time prove why you should buy one from them.

[CFD]

Originally Posted by camslambam

Last I checked I see 4cyl pushing way above their limits, but then 8cyl are blowing up all over the place.
And last I checked we use push rod engines which IS old technology .

Many eight cyl. engines get way over 1-2 hundred thousand miles, not many 4 cyl do. We do use in many instances pushrod engines which are old technoligy but the efficency is much greater but the comment made was on moving parts and current engines have more moving parts than earlier ones.

[camslambam]

Originally Posted by kaler

My car shifts at 6800rpms.... Jason has taken there VVT cams with dual springs to 7800rpms many times during development to make sure every thing would stay together.The VVT-3 cam would be a very good cam for spray imop. If I was building a max effort engine I would use a static cam also ..

You didn't answer why VVT is not reliable again.

Well my extremely simple motor is running over 600rwhp on a stock reliable bottom end l99 with no head work.

Amazing what a simple reliable tech-lacking engine can do, huh?

[CFD]

Originally Posted by camslambam

Well my extremely simple motor is running over 600rwhp on a stock reliable bottom end l99 with no head work.

Amazing what a simple reliable tech-lacking engine can do, huh?

For some reason it appears that you are under the impression that there is a lot more parts in a vvt equipped engine, the only difference between it and an ls3 converted engine is the phaser and cam bolt. It is only two part and quite simple at that. To convert a vvt engine to one that is not simply change the cam and the timing gear, that's it.

There is no doubt that the ls3 conversions have proven very reliable but there has been no evidence that I am aware of that vvt is not.