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View Poll Results: Was the dyno off?, or does GM have something up it's sleeve?
Yes! the dyno was off. 13 36.11%
Maybe those numbers are correct... 23 63.89%
Voters: 36. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-12-2012, 09:52 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by KKreme15 View Post
Read the link in the caddy forum, this is the test BEFORE the stage I

Ahh!! Damn. Maybe, just maybe, GM is holding the ZL1's for a small "quality control" issue that results in this same type dyno! Can always hope!
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Old 03-12-2012, 10:02 AM   #27
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This CTS-V would be over 600 hp at the flywheel...maybe GM was very conservative with their numbers.

Or maybe GM boosted the power of the Wagon due to the extra weight..
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Old 03-12-2012, 01:10 PM   #28
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by my understanding the magnusson moss is the federal lemon law but lemon law is actually slang. then states may have there own laws on top of it and if they are stricter then they would apply. just like minimum wage and any other program. federal rights/states rights.

there is nothing magical about the process or our court system as it blows. it is what it is. It cost both parties money and because of that a valid claim will usually get settled. In civil court everthing is a rebutable assumtion if you file they have to respond. been on both sides of it.

The MM act has nothing to do with lemon laws or mods done to the car. The act in a nutshell just states that any warranty given by a manufacture has to be honored, as long as the consumer abides by the warranty contract. The manufacture is not allowed to change the warranty, in the middle of the warranty term.

Remember the big thing is, the consumer needs to read and follow the fine print of the contract.
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Old 03-12-2012, 11:48 PM   #29
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So, back on topic...
All those mods resulted in 24 whp?
The pulley and tune should get that. I thought the 24 whp was just from the intake...kinda read like that on the caddy forum quick, I'll go re-read it I guess.
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Old 03-13-2012, 02:14 AM   #30
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Why isn't everyone jumping all over the fact that a motor "rated" @ 550 hp just spun the dyno showing it has just a hair over 600 fwhp?

Aren't these motors SAE certified? If 550 is really 605, WTF is 580?

Quick question though, why was a different SAE correction factor used on the before and after #'s? Typo?


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Old 03-13-2012, 08:29 AM   #31
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Why isn't everyone jumping all over the fact that a motor "rated" @ 550 hp just spun the dyno showing it has just a hair over 600 fwhp?

Aren't these motors SAE certified? If 550 is really 605, WTF is 580?

Quick question though, why was a different SAE correction factor used on the before and after #'s? Typo?


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This is the whole reason I posted this info! I guess we'll just have to dyno our stock ZL1's to find some answers. I did notice the difference in the SAE correction, maybe someone with some dyno experience could chime in...
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:07 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Joebot8484 View Post
This is the whole reason I posted this info! I guess we'll just have to dyno our stock ZL1's to find some answers. I did notice the difference in the SAE correction, maybe someone with some dyno experience could chime in...

We noticed something very interesting on this 2012 CADI......It had a port for the DUAL MOD EXHAUST ON IT

Also just finished another CADILLAC CTSV MANUAL this last week making very similar numbers with exact same mods

Mark my words TODAY:The ZL1 with 93 octane will have some stagering numbers on the chassis dyno!
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:23 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE View Post
We noticed something very interesting on this 2012 CADI......It had a port for the DUAL MOD EXHAUST ON IT

Also just finished another CADILLAC CTSV MANUAL this last week making very similar numbers with exact same mods

Mark my words TODAY:The ZL1 with 93 octane will have some stagering numbers on the chassis dyno!

Here is the comparison I spoke of -

2different cars,Exact same mods,only 1 had 91 octane and the other had 93 octane.

Same dyno and completely different times of the year:

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Old 03-14-2012, 12:40 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by ADM PERFORMANCE View Post
We noticed something very interesting on this 2012 CADI......It had a port for the DUAL MOD EXHAUST ON IT

Also just finished another CADILLAC CTSV MANUAL this last week making very similar numbers with exact same mods

Mark my words TODAY:The ZL1 with 93 octane will have some stagering numbers on the chassis dyno!

Based on your experience, what would your guesstimate be ?
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Old 03-14-2012, 01:03 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Unobtainium View Post
So, back on topic...
All those mods resulted in 24 whp?
The pulley and tune should get that. I thought the 24 whp was just from the intake...kinda read like that on the caddy forum quick, I'll go re-read it I guess.
Unless I'm missing something from your post, the 'V started at 520-some-odd RWHP - stock. After the inlet, porting the air cleaner, porting the snout (replacing the isolator, which is nothing for performance), replacing the pulley with a smaller one, and dyno' tune, the car went to nearly 590 RWHP. It picked up about 70 RWHP and a good amount of torque, too

What I'm a little concerned about was pinning the SC snout. I would've thought there would be a key in the OEM pulley and snout, but it appears not...

Andy - could you comment on if there's been a lot of slippage with the smaller pulley with moderate boost? I can completely see why you'd do it, especially since the snout is off for porting anyways, but have you seen spinning on the shaft? Also - were there clearance issues with getting the snout off, thereby requiring the whole SC to come off? I'm just wondering out of my own curiosity I'll be looking to do a lot of this stuff on my own, and wouldn't mind pulling the SC if necessary, but I'd rather not. Also - regardless of trying to be stealthy with the upper, do you see any benefits to replace it rather than the lower? I imagine belt slippage would be less with the lower, but again - I'm just curious I'm thinking I'd probably do both because I'll be limited with the rest of the bolt-ons where I live (i.e. not a lot of air cleaner or exhaust work will be permitted in order to remain in compliance, visually, with LE) I wish I could do some LTs

Thanks
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:29 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Joebot8484 View Post
Stock pull
SAE correction factor: .98
Rear wheel horsepower: 524.8 at 6125 rpm
Rear wheel torque: 521.2 at 3775 rpm
Run conditions: 72.21 degrees F, 29.50-in HG
Coolant temp 178 start, 180 finish
Boost- 9.44 max, 8.18 average

After Stage 1 kit
SAE correction factor: .99
Rear wheel horsepower: 548.1 at 6175 rpm
Rear wheel torque: 527.0 at 3675 rpm
Run conditions: 73.57 degrees F, 29.49-in HG
Coolant temp 172 start, 172 finish
Boost- 10.01 max, 8.06 average
Gains- Rhwp 23, rwtq, 6
This is what I was referring too...
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Old 03-14-2012, 04:04 PM   #37
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This is what I was referring too...
AH! I'm sorry

I don't have the article, but the were stages this install was performed, and to my recollection, the first stage of this install, was porting the air cleaner inlet (removing the snorkle and enlarging the opening in the air cleaner) and adding the Stinger elbow. I remember the article claimed that you can really open-up the side (opening at the snorkle) and bottom for huge flow, however, there were concerns of picking-up air from the engine compartment which wouldn't be good for IATs.

I'm pretty sure this stage of the install could be what you're talking about. This was also sans a custom tune - this was 100% stock with the Stinger elbow and opening-up the OEM air cleaner box.

The second stage of the install, was the rest of the Stage 1 kit, to my understanding... I don't really see a Stage 1 kit on ADM's site, so forgive me if it sounds like I'm arguing sematics - I'm really not
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Old 03-14-2012, 05:19 PM   #38
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Based on your experience, what would your guesstimate be ?
Over 500RWHP ON MANUALS.....

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Old 03-14-2012, 10:01 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by radz28 View Post
AH! I'm sorry

I don't have the article, but the were stages this install was performed, and to my recollection, the first stage of this install, was porting the air cleaner inlet (removing the snorkle and enlarging the opening in the air cleaner) and adding the Stinger elbow. I remember the article claimed that you can really open-up the side (opening at the snorkle) and bottom for huge flow, however, there were concerns of picking-up air from the engine compartment which wouldn't be good for IATs.

I'm pretty sure this stage of the install could be what you're talking about. This was also sans a custom tune - this was 100% stock with the Stinger elbow and opening-up the OEM air cleaner box.

The second stage of the install, was the rest of the Stage 1 kit, to my understanding... I don't really see a Stage 1 kit on ADM's site, so forgive me if it sounds like I'm arguing sematics - I'm really not
It's all good. Thought that was strange. Pulley should be 25 whp minimum for a small change, otherwise you did it wrong. Tune should be about the same. 24 whp did not add up.
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Old 03-15-2012, 09:53 AM   #40
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It's all good. Thought that was strange. Pulley should be 25 whp minimum for a small change, otherwise you did it wrong. Tune should be about the same. 24 whp did not add up.
Yeah - I reviewed the article again, and actually - the Stinger is NOT part of the ADM Stage I package outlined in th article. It must've been added by the owner. It also sounded like the suggestiong to cut the air box open was recommended by the Stinger-people. It was that change, with no tuning, that resulted in the 20 RWHP increase. Then - the addition of the pulley and tune with porting added up to the remainder of the increase ADM saw in that article.

I'd recommend you pick that GMHTP up. Not only is it a good article, IMO, and showcases one of our Sponsors, but I also think it's the best magazine for our cars. It is one of the VERY few magazines that I trust information from and know they perform their testing to the highest standards with the best people available. It was nice with Evan Smith was testing for them more, however, Scott Parker is also a great driver.

JMVHO
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Old 03-15-2012, 02:51 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by IROCanSS View Post
you can't go by dyno results. They can make them whatever they want.

The only good thing about a dyno is getting an approximation of power and its a good way to show gains with mods, as long as youre on the same dyno with the same conditions.
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Originally Posted by actireman View Post
Absolutly correct. I own www.warroomdyno.com and we have a Mustang MD250 eddy current dyno. Our dyno doesn't put out near the numbers that an inertia dyno does. We don't care because we use our dyno for tuning. But we will have customers get 50 RWHP when they go to a Dyno jet.
^ THIS x 1 HUNDRED BILLION GAZILLION
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Old 03-18-2012, 12:33 PM   #42
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Great article. Which hose had to be cut 3/8" shorter? I suspect the primary hose with the PCV nipple, since the secondary hose has just enough material on both ends to accommodate the hose clamps.

Thanks,

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Old 03-18-2012, 12:34 PM   #43
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Yeah - I reviewed the article again, and actually - the Stinger is NOT part of the ADM Stage I package outlined in th article. It must've been added by the owner. It also sounded like the suggestiong to cut the air box open was recommended by the Stinger-people. It was that change, with no tuning, that resulted in the 20 RWHP increase. Then - the addition of the pulley and tune with porting added up to the remainder of the increase ADM saw in that article.

I'd recommend you pick that GMHTP up. Not only is it a good article, IMO, and showcases one of our Sponsors, but I also think it's the best magazine for our cars. It is one of the VERY few magazines that I trust information from and know they perform their testing to the highest standards with the best people available. It was nice with Evan Smith was testing for them more, however, Scott Parker is also a great driver.

JMVHO
That is the Halltech Stinger Carbon Fiber intake, donated to the owner for the testing. +23 RWHP according to the article.
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Old 03-19-2012, 04:56 PM   #44
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Great article. Which hose had to be cut 3/8" shorter? I suspect the primary hose with the PCV nipple, since the secondary hose has just enough material on both ends to accommodate the hose clamps.

Thanks,

Jim Hall
I believe it was the inlet hose coupler to the TB. Maybe it was just the temperature outside that made the hose tighter to fit or something, or who knows? That's the jest of what I gathered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Halltech View Post
That is the Halltech Stinger Carbon Fiber intake, donated to the owner for the testing. +23 RWHP according to the article.
It was quite surprising to see such a large gain. After seeing that, I found the comments about V's sucking their OEM rubber tubes nearly closed more believable. There must be a fair restriction in the airbox - it seemed to be mostly eliminated in that article.

I know that intake sure looked really good!
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:02 PM   #45
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Over 500RWHP ON MANUALS.....
Definantly Over 500rwhp




TTTTTT

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Old 04-15-2012, 10:33 AM   #46
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The cars owner was going to do additional mods to get close to 600 ish rwhp, however, the results were so significant and surprising that he stoped after phase one. Now we know the LSA manual 6 in the ZL1 is in the 520-525rwhp stock, no mods at all. What a great beginning.
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