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Old 02-28-2012, 07:53 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by yokev View Post
Problem with that is it WASN'T the 650hp 2013 GT500, with the in-cab adjustable suspension, and from what I've been told, a surprise that'll be unveiled at the last minute, in the form of a CERAMIC BRAKE option.
Ford's already(obviously) ran the Nurburgring, VIR, Fontana, and Laguna Seca just to name a few, and methinks they're waiting until the ZL1 gets released and the rags review it over and over and over, before they drop the daisy-cutter bombshell that is the '13 Shelby GT500 on the until-then, chest-pumping GM upper-management.
Me personally, I'm trying to figure out if I can wait until a few months after the Shelby is released to buy the ZL1. Obviously right off the bat they're gonna be priced through the roof, but I'm thinking there's a chance that with all the hype transferring to the Shelby, and the car becomes available, one might be able to sneak in and out of a Chevy dealer with a ZL1, WITHOUT having to bend over and pick up the soap.
...hmmmm, as if one would not have to worry about dropping the soap in the Ford dealership shower? If there is a quick buck to be made, of course some businesses will tend to the Golden Goose as long as possible. The new GT500 with a 100 HP increase is going to be priced very hefty as well, you'll get what you pay for on both models...and HP thunder isn't going to diminish volume and sale one iota on the ZL1. I wouldn't bet anyone will be able to sneak out of a Chevy dealer on the 2012 model year with any deal other than MSRP. There will be no incentives, no discounts, no interest rate promotion. Possibly on a 2013 there may be some wiggle room.
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Old 02-28-2012, 07:59 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
...hmmmm, as if one would not have to worry about dropping the soap in the Ford dealership shower? If there is a quick buck to be made, of course some businesses will tend to the Golden Goose as long as possible. The new GT500 with a 100 HP increase is going to be priced very hefty as well, you'll get what you pay for on both models...and HP thunder isn't going to diminish volume and sale one iota on the ZL1. I wouldn't bet anyone will be able to sneak out of a Chevy dealer on the 2012 model year with any deal other than MSRP. There will be no incentives, no discounts, no interest rate promotion. Possibly on a 2013 there may be some wiggle room.
Do you have some info on the 2013 gt500's official MSRP?
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:11 AM   #143
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Do you have some info on the 2013 gt500's official MSRP?
No, same as you. However, horsepower costs alot of money. Don't you think 100 horsepower will not cost much? Do you propose Ford will not increase the MSRP by an amount that will reflect the addition of a huge HP increase accordingly? How much do you suggest the price increase will be I ask?
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:16 AM   #144
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
No, same as you. However, horsepower costs alot of money. Don't you think 100 horsepower will not cost much? Do you propose Ford will not increase the MSRP by an amount that will reflect the addition of a huge HP increase accordingly? How much do you suggest the price increase will be I ask?
IMHO, its not directly related to the cost of adding the HP, its more related to the opportunity cost of being able to purchase the vehicle with the most HP in a production car (whether or not it can best the ZL1 around corners), IMO Ford has always factored this into pricing since the 60s. We shall see. I predict a base of more than 60K, fully optioned at more than 65K, with most dealers adding ADM for a total of 70-75K.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:40 AM   #145
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Damn, this car is super impressive! I gotta say when it beats a great car like a GTR on a track like this, thats gotta say something! This ain't your best friends high school 305 Iroc-Z anymore people. It's a shame it got smashed in the end, I wonder what Mr. Link thought when he heard the news someone wrecked his record setting car.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:46 AM   #146
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
No, same as you. However, horsepower costs alot of money. Don't you think 100 horsepower will not cost much? Do you propose Ford will not increase the MSRP by an amount that will reflect the addition of a huge HP increase accordingly? How much do you suggest the price increase will be I ask?
Ford will need to keep it competitive at some level w/ the ZL1. What you get w/ the ZL1 though is a LOT with a few options left to drive the price up. If Ford sticks w/ the same model that they have now, you will have base and then a performance package ($$), Electronics package ($$), Recaro Seats ($$), Glass Roof ($$) ... anyway .. I can see base GT500 being UNDER the ZL1 base price. We need to remember the ZL1 will have the gas guzzler tax as well .. so they can play that ..

Either way, if you get at least the Performance Package and recaro seat option, I can see this car then being more expensive than the ZL1 .. add the electronics package and I bet you are pushing close to 60k at that point.

The price increase isn't just about the added HP on the GT500 .. they put a different engine, blower, more downforce, bigger breaks etc ... HP was probably the cheapest thing they could have done .. they could have kept the same 5.4L in there and either upped the boost or put the 2.3L TVS on there and a little more boost (remember the GT500 is low compression and built and can handle the added boost) the real deal will be the dealer markups when this car first comes out..


As far as a complete car out the door, GM did a HELL of a job w/ the ZL1 .. I say w/ the suspension setup, that car wins in the twisties for sure.. it just simply is more advance and a better setup for that environment! If they would just get the touch screen, Nav, and electronics that FORD offers as far as entertainment and climate control .. that would be over the top!

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Old 02-28-2012, 09:04 AM   #147
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Originally Posted by yokev View Post
Problem with that is it WASN'T the 650hp 2013 GT500, with the in-cab adjustable suspension, and from what I've been told, a surprise that'll be unveiled at the last minute, in the form of a CERAMIC BRAKE option.
Ford's already(obviously) ran the Nurburgring, VIR, Fontana, and Laguna Seca just to name a few, and methinks they're waiting until the ZL1 gets released and the rags review it over and over and over, before they drop the daisy-cutter bombshell that is the '13 Shelby GT500 on the until-then, chest-pumping GM upper-management.
Me personally, I'm trying to figure out if I can wait until a few months after the Shelby is released to buy the ZL1. Obviously right off the bat they're gonna be priced through the roof, but I'm thinking there's a chance that with all the hype transferring to the Shelby, and the car becomes available, one might be able to sneak in and out of a Chevy dealer with a ZL1, WITHOUT having to bend over and pick up the soap.
First I assume you mean a CCR brake system, Carbon Ceramic Rotors? And IF they do that then hats off to Ford, however I highly doubt it as that option would probably up the price about $9k-13k. As of today, Brembo are the only ones who make the CCR system for the OEM manufacturers (GM, Ferrari, Audi etc) and with Ford using Brembo for all other brakes I would assume they would use them. The service costs for these brake are insanely high, which is why I would not think that Ford would option for them but who knows!

CCR Brakes don't necessarily help the car stop faster, just more frequently and without heating issues. Many Porsche GT3 owners buy them with the CCR option, but swap them out for the regular steel units when hitting the track as they work just as well, and with sufficient cooling just as long as they need it to for a much lower cost.

CCR brakes also don't work very well on the street compared to steel, they need tons of heat to work properly as their operation temp is much much higher then steel units.

Anywho, I can't wait to see what Ford brings! We live in an awesome time right now with bad a$$ muscle cars coming out from everywhere! I love it!

/Erik
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:05 AM   #148
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nice, i think they could have done a faster time
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:14 AM   #149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yokev View Post
Problem with that is it WASN'T the 650hp 2013 GT500, with the in-cab adjustable suspension, and from what I've been told, a surprise that'll be unveiled at the last minute, in the form of a CERAMIC BRAKE option.
Ford's already(obviously) ran the Nurburgring, VIR, Fontana, and Laguna Seca just to name a few, and methinks they're waiting until the ZL1 gets released and the rags review it over and over and over, before they drop the daisy-cutter bombshell that is the '13 Shelby GT500 on the until-then, chest-pumping GM upper-management.
Yes, I think we realize that this video confirms what some of our Mustang "friends" appear to already know, and that is that a 1964 1/2 Mustang based on a Falcon suspension with a 170 CID 101 HP straight 6 with 4 wheel drum brakes would clearly outperform the 2012 ZL1.

Is there anyone else who is a little tired of the 2013 GT500 "comparisons" and speculation?

We are currently seeing how the ZL1 actually performs, but at this time what we know about the performance of the 2013 GT500 is only speculation. The 2013 GT500 will be released in Summer 2012, and we'll find out how the 2013 GT500's performance compares with the ZL1's performance at that time.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:16 AM   #150
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That brake option is interesting. From the initial reviews - ZL1's brakes work, so that does nothing for me, LOL. If they were offered on ZL1, I would opt' out, unless they were incorperated into a package or something that I wanted...

That sounds completely unnecessary on a Mustang, but maybe it's performance will justify them. I guess time will tell.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:17 AM   #151
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Ford will need to keep it competitive at some level w/ the ZL1. What you get w/ the ZL1 though is a LOT with a few options left to drive the price up. If Ford sticks w/ the same model that they have now, you will have base and then a performance package ($$), Electronics package ($$), Recaro Seats ($$), Glass Roof ($$) ... anyway .. I can see base GT500 being UNDER the ZL1 base price. We need to remember the ZL1 will have the gas guzzler tax as well .. so they can play that ..

Either way, if you get at least the Performance Package and recaro seat option, I can see this car then being more expensive than the ZL1 .. add the electronics package and I bet you are pushing close to 60k at that point.

The price increase isn't just about the added HP on the GT500 .. they put a different engine, blower, more downforce, bigger breaks etc ... HP was probably the cheapest thing they could have done .. they could have kept the same 5.4L in there and either upped the boost or put the 2.3L TVS on there and a little more boost (remember the GT500 is low compression and built and can handle the added boost) the real deal will be the dealer markups when this car first comes out..


As far as a complete car out the door, GM did a HELL of a job w/ the ZL1 .. I say w/ the suspension setup, that car wins in the twisties for sure.. it just simply is more advance and a better setup for that environment! If they would just get the touch screen, Nav, and electronics that FORD offers as far as entertainment and climate control .. that would be over the top!

Crowley
I almost completely agree, except for the price... I don't see the base price being under the ZL1 at all. Then if they don't have the base model evenly compared to the "BASE" ZL1, meaning you have to make all those option add ons like you listed (like they normally do), the car is going to be WELL into the 60's. You even give the case for me because of all the retooling and changes they made, just like the ZL1 did over the SS.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:21 AM   #152
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If Ford were to offer those specified brakes, they'd be an option I'm certain. No need for racing brakes on a car that will likely be spec'd without the PP/TP more often than not.

GM seems to have done a knockout job with their c5 ZL1... Just imagine if that 580 hp and MR suspension wasn't tugging around 4,000+ pounds!

A lightened camaro running zo6 times in a few years... Wow.. Same with the mustang on a lighter chasis...

Decrease the weight, maintain the power, increase mileage...
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:26 AM   #153
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If Ford were to offer those specified brakes, they'd be an option I'm certain. No need for racing brakes on a car that will likely be spec'd without the PP/TP more often than not.

GM seems to have done a knockout job with their c5 ZL1... Just imagine if that 580 hp and MR suspension wasn't tugging around 4,000+ pounds!

A lightened camaro running zo6 times in a few years... Wow.. Same with the mustang on a lighter chasis...

Decrease the weight, maintain the power, increase mileage...
Ya, but you got to watch the power to weight ratio... too much power and not enough weigh, or the ability to manage that power to the rear tires like GM does, you end up with the Mustang issue of no traction.... then you have to redesign/reengineer the down force, suspension, sway bar size, etc.... unless you are only talking a few hundred pounds, maybe 3 to 4 at the most...
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:34 AM   #154
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If Ford were to offer those specified brakes, they'd be an option I'm certain. No need for racing brakes on a car that will likely be spec'd without the PP/TP more often than not.

GM seems to have done a knockout job with their c5 ZL1... Just imagine if that 580 hp and MR suspension wasn't tugging around 4,000+ pounds!

A lightened camaro running zo6 times in a few years... Wow.. Same with the mustang on a lighter chasis...

Decrease the weight, maintain the power, increase mileage...
....from Ford itself about the brakes on the "base" 2013 GT500....

"Brembo braking system: A new Brembo brake system offers drivers enhanced stopping power to help keep their car under control, both on the road and the track. New six-piston calipers in front along with larger front and rear rotors help improve brake fade. New brake pads that are more aggressive also help the car achieve high deceleration and further robustness for more driver confidence"
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