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Old 02-28-2012, 09:17 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by Crowley View Post
Ford will need to keep it competitive at some level w/ the ZL1. What you get w/ the ZL1 though is a LOT with a few options left to drive the price up. If Ford sticks w/ the same model that they have now, you will have base and then a performance package ($$), Electronics package ($$), Recaro Seats ($$), Glass Roof ($$) ... anyway .. I can see base GT500 being UNDER the ZL1 base price. We need to remember the ZL1 will have the gas guzzler tax as well .. so they can play that ..

Either way, if you get at least the Performance Package and recaro seat option, I can see this car then being more expensive than the ZL1 .. add the electronics package and I bet you are pushing close to 60k at that point.

The price increase isn't just about the added HP on the GT500 .. they put a different engine, blower, more downforce, bigger breaks etc ... HP was probably the cheapest thing they could have done .. they could have kept the same 5.4L in there and either upped the boost or put the 2.3L TVS on there and a little more boost (remember the GT500 is low compression and built and can handle the added boost) the real deal will be the dealer markups when this car first comes out..


As far as a complete car out the door, GM did a HELL of a job w/ the ZL1 .. I say w/ the suspension setup, that car wins in the twisties for sure.. it just simply is more advance and a better setup for that environment! If they would just get the touch screen, Nav, and electronics that FORD offers as far as entertainment and climate control .. that would be over the top!

Crowley
I almost completely agree, except for the price... I don't see the base price being under the ZL1 at all. Then if they don't have the base model evenly compared to the "BASE" ZL1, meaning you have to make all those option add ons like you listed (like they normally do), the car is going to be WELL into the 60's. You even give the case for me because of all the retooling and changes they made, just like the ZL1 did over the SS.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:21 AM   #152
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If Ford were to offer those specified brakes, they'd be an option I'm certain. No need for racing brakes on a car that will likely be spec'd without the PP/TP more often than not.

GM seems to have done a knockout job with their c5 ZL1... Just imagine if that 580 hp and MR suspension wasn't tugging around 4,000+ pounds!

A lightened camaro running zo6 times in a few years... Wow.. Same with the mustang on a lighter chasis...

Decrease the weight, maintain the power, increase mileage...
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:26 AM   #153
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
If Ford were to offer those specified brakes, they'd be an option I'm certain. No need for racing brakes on a car that will likely be spec'd without the PP/TP more often than not.

GM seems to have done a knockout job with their c5 ZL1... Just imagine if that 580 hp and MR suspension wasn't tugging around 4,000+ pounds!

A lightened camaro running zo6 times in a few years... Wow.. Same with the mustang on a lighter chasis...

Decrease the weight, maintain the power, increase mileage...
Ya, but you got to watch the power to weight ratio... too much power and not enough weigh, or the ability to manage that power to the rear tires like GM does, you end up with the Mustang issue of no traction.... then you have to redesign/reengineer the down force, suspension, sway bar size, etc.... unless you are only talking a few hundred pounds, maybe 3 to 4 at the most...
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:34 AM   #154
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
If Ford were to offer those specified brakes, they'd be an option I'm certain. No need for racing brakes on a car that will likely be spec'd without the PP/TP more often than not.

GM seems to have done a knockout job with their c5 ZL1... Just imagine if that 580 hp and MR suspension wasn't tugging around 4,000+ pounds!

A lightened camaro running zo6 times in a few years... Wow.. Same with the mustang on a lighter chasis...

Decrease the weight, maintain the power, increase mileage...
....from Ford itself about the brakes on the "base" 2013 GT500....

"Brembo braking system: A new Brembo brake system offers drivers enhanced stopping power to help keep their car under control, both on the road and the track. New six-piston calipers in front along with larger front and rear rotors help improve brake fade. New brake pads that are more aggressive also help the car achieve high deceleration and further robustness for more driver confidence"
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:40 AM   #155
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Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
....from Ford itself about the brakes on the "base" 2013 GT500....

"Brembo braking system: A new Brembo brake system offers drivers enhanced stopping power to help keep their car under control, both on the road and the track. New six-piston calipers in front along with larger front and rear rotors help improve brake fade. New brake pads that are more aggressive also help the car achieve high deceleration and further robustness for more driver confidence"
I'm aware of the Brembo package already, I was responding to the suggestion of the carbon brakes and their increase on base price.

I'm certain 6 and 4 piston brakes will be standard on all models even IF the others were made an option.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:48 AM   #156
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Ya, but you got to watch the power to weight ratio... too much power and not enough weigh, or the ability to manage that power to the rear tires like GM does, you end up with the Mustang issue of no traction.... then you have to redesign/reengineer the down force, suspension, sway bar size, etc.... unless you are only talking a few hundred pounds, maybe 3 to 4 at the most...
I'm not here to defend the Mustang at every turn (I know that wouldn't accomplish much, nor make friends) but you make it sound as if the '11/'12 GT500's were unruly, tire shredding, tractionless monsters.

Despite the percieved notions, the last two model years performed quite well. They pulled a solid 1.0g in lateral acceleration in most tests, shaved 10+ seconds off their VIR time compared to the '10 model, and managed a quarter mile near the 12.0 range.

The ZL1 will outperform each of those numbers 9/10 times, don't get me wrong, I realize that and have for some time, but that's not to take away from the previous Shelby. That was expected, if anything, it would have been a failure on GMs part had the car not been able to.

I'm impressed personally, and regardless of how the '13 SVT stacks up, I'll wave to every ZL1 I see on the street while I'm driving my new toy (if I can distinguish a ZL1 from the other models )
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:02 AM   #157
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:08 AM   #158
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Great job GM! However Ford will stay price competitive, say in the high to mid $50's. Remember when the 10' GT with 315 hp cost $27,995, then the 11' 5.0 with 412 hp could be had for just two grand more at @29,710.

More horse power doesn't necessary mean an explosion in base price.

Hence, just because the 13' GT500 has 70 more hp, it doesn't mean it will cost $63-66K.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:13 AM   #159
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Originally Posted by Jzap624 View Post
Great job GM! However Ford will stay price competitive, say in the high to mid $50's. Remember when the 10' GT with 315 hp cost $27,995, then the 11' 5.0 with 412 hp could be had for just two grand more at @29,710.

More horse power doesn't necessary mean an explosion in base price.

Hence, just because the 13' GT500 has 70 more hp, it doesn't mean it will cost $63-66K.
90 more hp.
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:14 AM   #160
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
I'm not here to defend the Mustang at every turn (I know that wouldn't accomplish much, nor make friends) but you make it sound as if the '11/'12 GT500's were unruly, tire shredding, tractionless monsters.
I kinda wondered if it was coming across like that when I wrote that..... don't be so sensitive
j/k

It wasn't meant to be taken as such, but you have to agree, even though they did improve, they STILL have a problem managing their power as well as GM does... know what I mean, the ZR1 doesn't have an issue...

As much as I am a GM fan, I love the mustang as well, always have. just a few body styles I couldn't stand, just like the camaro
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:35 AM   #161
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Nah, I'm not being sensitive. And i'll take that as a compliment when you compare a Mustang to a ZR-1, even if it's saying the ZR-1 is better
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:40 AM   #162
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Nobody compared a Mustang to a ZR1.....just for grins and giggles guys, ZL1 comes standard with all the bells and whistles, GT500 has them ala carte optioned, what's that gonna throw on top of the price increase for the 100 HP plus all the other standard "base" upgrades?. Heres a clip from the Blue Oval Horses for the upgrade package...

"With 650 hp, no bend in the road will be far away. To address those curves, the new GT500 gets optional electronically-adjustable Bilstein shocks. Part of the Performance package—which also includes a Torsen limited-slip diff and Recaro seats—the Bilstein dampers offer drivers a choice of Normal and Sport modes. If you intend to unleash your Shelby on a closed course, you might want to opt for the Track package, too. It adds supplementary coolers for the engine oil, differential, and transmission"
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Old 02-28-2012, 10:50 AM   #163
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Nah, I'm not being sensitive. And i'll take that as a compliment when you compare a Mustang to a ZR-1, even if it's saying the ZR-1 is better
comparison by POWER ONLY
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:00 AM   #164
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
I'm not here to defend the Mustang at every turn (I know that wouldn't accomplish much, nor make friends) but you make it sound as if the '11/'12 GT500's were unruly, tire shredding, tractionless monsters.

Despite the percieved notions, the last two model years performed quite well. They pulled a solid 1.0g in lateral acceleration in most tests, shaved 10+ seconds off their VIR time compared to the '10 model, and managed a quarter mile near the 12.0 range.

The ZL1 will outperform each of those numbers 9/10 times, don't get me wrong, I realize that and have for some time, but that's not to take away from the previous Shelby. That was expected, if anything, it would have been a failure on GMs part had the car not been able to.

I'm impressed personally, and regardless of how the '13 SVT stacks up, I'll wave to every ZL1 I see on the street while I'm driving my new toy (if I can distinguish a ZL1 from the other models )
If you cant see that bulging hood with a carbon fiber insert and completely redesigned front fascia with huge splitter you you might need glasses

Quote:
Originally Posted by MauriSSio View Post
90 more hp.
Ford's official HP rating is 650hp, 70 more than the ZL1.
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/2013/
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:01 AM   #165
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Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT View Post
I'm aware of the Brembo package already, I was responding to the suggestion of the carbon brakes and their increase on base price.

I'm certain 6 and 4 piston brakes will be standard on all models even IF the others were made an option.
As far as I know they are not running 4 piston brakes on the rear of the car, just a larger single piston caliper with a larger rotor then the current one.

I believe only Baer makes a multi piston caliper for the rear of these solid axle Mustangs.

/Erik
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:12 AM   #166
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As a Boss owner, I hate to say it, but... The ZL1 its frigging impressive!
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:00 PM   #167
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If you cant see that bulging hood with a carbon fiber insert and completely redesigned front fascia with huge splitter you you might need glasses



Ford's official HP rating is 650hp, 70 more than the ZL1.
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/2013/
to be fair, I guess you aren't the only one missing the sarcasm.
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:02 PM   #168
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As a Boss owner, I hate to say it, but... The ZL1 its frigging impressive!
I've poked my fun, but that's still a KILLER car
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Old 02-28-2012, 12:52 PM   #169
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Are you being sarcastic, or is there a school of thought that says the auto will be faster?
Dude where you're living? This isn't 1993 anymore, today's auto or semi-auto transmissions shift quicker than a human moving a vertical rod to place gears. That doesn't mean the Manuals aren't cool. I prefer a manual over an auto most of the time.
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:19 PM   #170
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If you cant see that bulging hood with a carbon fiber insert and completely redesigned front fascia with huge splitter you you might need glasses



Ford's official HP rating is 650hp, 70 more than the ZL1.
http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/2013/
It makes 670 @ 7000 rpm.
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:42 PM   #171
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As a Boss owner, I hate to say it, but... The ZL1 its frigging impressive!

A true enthusiats
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:48 PM   #172
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It makes 670 @ 7000 rpm.
Can you please provide an official link from Ford where they state 670hp. Both of the following links say 650hp. Car and Driver was as of Feb 2012, it states the 650hp was allowed due to going over 6200RPM

http://www.caranddriver.com/features...-gt500-feature

http://www.ford.com/cars/mustang/2013/
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:55 PM   #173
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Old 02-28-2012, 01:56 PM   #174
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Do we know that the same track configuration was used? The ZL-1 time seems way faster than I expected. Faster than a Z06?
The key here is the driver, I said the same thing when the 2012 GT 500 lap time at VIR. its a great run but not really that relevant compared to car and driver lightning lap. Car and driver uses the same driver for all cars so the difference in lap times comes down to the abilities of the vehicle not driver skill. Heck I bet I can beat a noob in a cobalt SS turbo even if he had a Z06 get my point.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:00 PM   #175
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Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Tires on the ZL1 really DO make a big difference. All things being equal, there is no way the ZL1 beats a Z06.
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