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Old 02-28-2012, 02:05 PM   #176
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Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Tires on the ZL1 really DO make a big difference. All things being equal, there is no way the ZL1 beats a Z06.
Bob
Who said anything about Michelins on ZL1? The only performance data GM has released are only with F1:G2s. They have suggested winter performance Pirellis, but there are no GM tests that have have anything other than Goodyears.

If you're saying Sport Cups would do wonders for ZL1, then I agree.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:09 PM   #177
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Who said anything about Michelins on ZL1? The only performance data GM has released are only with F1:G2s. They have suggested winter performance Pirellis, but there are no GM tests that have have anything other than Goodyears.

If you're saying Sport Cups would do wonders for ZL1, then I agree.


I hope they release a track edition ZL1 in the future with the Sport Cup tires to really see where this car stands against the Z06/ZR1. Obviously it won't beat them, but it would close the gap.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:09 PM   #178
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:38 PM   #179
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Even if Ford offers carbon ceramic brakes I don't think they will make that much of a difference. Yes, carbon ceramics handle heat better and the rotors will last a very long time IF you don't damage them. The downside is if you do damage a rotor you can't resurface it. If the Ford has better braking performance it will be mostly due to the lighter weight and possibly stickier tires.

It is pretty common among the track junkies in the Porsche world with OEM carbon ceramic brakes to swap them out for iron rotors due to the huge replacement cost of the ceramic rotors. All it takes is for something to get between the pad and rotor and your out a chunk of change. A good braking system with iron rotors can be very competitive.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:39 PM   #180
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I hope they release a track edition ZL1 in the future with the Sport Cup tires to really see where this car stands against the Z06/ZR1. Obviously it won't beat them, but it would close the gap.
I foresee as a Track Package (maybe this will be how we see any referrence to Z28 :( in the 5th Generation), like Z06 has the Z07 package That's my official prediction
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:48 PM   #181
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Michelin Pilot Sport Cup Tires on the ZL1 really DO make a big difference. All things being equal, there is no way the ZL1 beats a Z06.
Bob
There you have it. Close the thread
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:49 PM   #182
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Can you please provide an official link from Ford where they state 670hp. Both of the following links say 650hp. Car and Driver was as of Feb 2012, it states the 650hp was allowed due to going over 6200RPM
Some of our Mustang "friends" keep quoting the 670 hp claim from a March 2012 Hot Rod article on the 2013 GT500.

The official Ford horsepower stated for the 2013 GT500 is 650 hp, therefore, I doubt our "friends" will be able to post an official Ford link that claims 670 hp.
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Old 02-28-2012, 02:54 PM   #183
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Some of our Mustang "friends" keep quoting the 670 hp claim from a March 2012 Hot Rod article on the 2013 GT500.

The official Ford horsepower stated for the 2013 GT500 is 650 hp, therefore, I doubt our "friends" will be able to post an official Ford link that claims 670 hp.



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Old 02-28-2012, 02:59 PM   #184
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Some of our Mustang "friends" keep quoting the 670 hp claim from a March 2012 Hot Rod article on the 2013 GT500.

The official Ford horsepower stated for the 2013 GT500 is 650 hp, therefore, I doubt our "friends" will be able to post an official Ford link that claims 670 hp.
That's an over-rev' feature, as far as I know, so I'd be careful (if that's the case), in quoting that as the power output, because if you can only use if for short bursts every so often, I'm not sure if that's a fair qualification. That sounds more of a gimic or cop-out than anything. If they're worried about it making that power continuously, there's a reason.
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:18 PM   #185
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Dude where you're living? This isn't 1993 anymore, today's auto or semi-auto transmissions shift quicker than a human moving a vertical rod to place gears. That doesn't mean the Manuals aren't cool. I prefer a manual over an auto most of the time.
"dude", what are you talking about? how fast you shift has almost nothing to do with road racing.... it is all about what gear you are in and when to and not to shift and you need to be in a certain gear at a specific moment.

1/4 mile stuff yes, the automatics for most people are quicker times.
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:04 PM   #186
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For those interested .. comparable vid from the 2011 GT500 when it went around the track.


It will be nice to see if someone can take the Zl1 and 2013 GT500 around in the same day / same driver as well ... I'd have to give the advantage to the ZL1 as I just think the suspension and the tire is there to support the power ...

Crowley
With a good driver this GT500 would have gone much faster. He continually misjudged the need to down shift and hit the rev limiter 10 or more times (it looks like it was rev limited to no more than 6200...I thought the GT500 had more). The car didn't look as settled as the ZL1, but we expected that. This is a good video...who was driving? For a while, I was dreading the thought that the ZL1 might get beat by a GT500, but after watching this video, I would whole heartedly give credit to the GT500 if it won. This competition is absolutely awesome!!!
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:33 PM   #187
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With a good driver this GT500 would have gone much faster. He continually misjudged the need to down shift and hit the rev limiter 10 or more times (it looks like it was rev limited to no more than 6200...I thought the GT500 had more). The car didn't look as settled as the ZL1, but we expected that. This is a good video...who was driving? For a while, I was dreading the thought that the ZL1 might get beat by a GT500, but after watching this video, I would whole heartedly give credit to the GT500 if it won. This competition is absolutely awesome!!!
Very good observation there. Also, on several occassions, the GT500 sounded like it had the traction/stab control kicking (engine cutting in and out) in as the car "almost" lost traction a few times. Nevertheless, the ZL1 whipped that course!
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:47 PM   #188
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With a good driver this GT500 would have gone much faster. He continually misjudged the need to down shift and hit the rev limiter 10 or more times (it looks like it was rev limited to no more than 6200...I thought the GT500 had more). The car didn't look as settled as the ZL1, but we expected that. This is a good video...who was driving? For a while, I was dreading the thought that the ZL1 might get beat by a GT500, but after watching this video, I would whole heartedly give credit to the GT500 if it won. This competition is absolutely awesome!!!
There were mistakes in that lap for sure but I not sure I would call the guy not a good driver. I think he was pushing hard and having grip issues.

he got 6 seconds a lap faster than the driver in a the lighting lap so mistakes or not he got the car around the track fast.

Cars that are hard to drive smooth are hard to run mistake free laps in. I think that is why you see the Boss lap faster than a Gt500 sometimes some people just don't have the skill level to pusht the car.
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Old 02-28-2012, 04:51 PM   #189
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Old 02-28-2012, 05:50 PM   #190
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Dude where you're living? This isn't 1993 anymore, today's auto or semi-auto transmissions shift quicker than a human moving a vertical rod to place gears. That doesn't mean the Manuals aren't cool. I prefer a manual over an auto most of the time.
I'm just thiking that the auto can't possibly know what gear the driver wants 100% of the time. I don't buy that it can do that.

If it were a auto with dual clutches and manual control I'd certainly be impressed, but the ZL1 has a hydraulic auto.
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:30 PM   #191
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There were mistakes in that lap for sure but I not sure I would call the guy not a good driver. I think he was pushing hard and having grip issues.

he got 6 seconds a lap faster than the driver in a the lighting lap so mistakes or not he got the car around the track fast.

Cars that are hard to drive smooth are hard to run mistake free laps in. I think that is why you see the Boss lap faster than a Gt500 sometimes some people just don't have the skill level to pusht the car.

Maybe you're right. I remember video tests of the ZR1 and Z06 when they first came out where the tester said, "my goodness, these things are very hard to control!"....Yeah, because you ain't used to driving ANYTHING with that kind of power. It's easy to drive a Mazda Miata around any track at max speed compared to a horsepower monster like the ZL1, GT500, Z06 and ZR1!
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Old 02-28-2012, 09:55 PM   #192
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I don't know about most of you, but after seeing Aaron Golds wreck at VIR and reading his mind wave as he was entering the twisties, I am starting to feel a bit of mental pressure knowing how dangerous and costly a little mistake could be with this "weapon"... I think the word "weapon" is the new buzzword up at Milford for the ZL1 (and the CTS-V) and rightfully so. With all due respect to everyone's credentials, there are many of us, me included, who may as well be driving a Nascar vehicle around town
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Old 02-28-2012, 11:55 PM   #193
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Anyone who questions this cars ability REALLY needs to re-think that. The ZL1 is a friggen monster, and its not to be messed with.


The astounding thing that is as true as the above statement -- is how EASY it is to drive. Just remarkable...

I'm so glad I had a chance to fly around VIR in the ZL1...it just confirms everything we're being told. It IS a supercar, there's no two ways about it!

They Chevy team was very, very, VERY proud of the figures the car produced around the track - and it sure seemed like a celebration that night over dinner.

I'll have a full (and real long) re-cap posted tomorrow evening...and lots more pictures (including the undercarraige! ) to go with it. You guys who've ordered one are just going to be thrilled as ever when you get it!


EDIT: OH...and fwiw...the GT500 doesn't stand a chance. Chevy's taken this car to a whole new plane, where Ford can't follow. At least not in this generation. It may be faster in the quarter -- and there's NO doubt that it'll be a blast to drive with all that power...but the ZL1 is just better in nearly every other way.

I'm almost to the point of not comparing them anymore. Mustang has continued down the same path as they've ever been on - improving what they do real well. Chevy took the Camaro in a new direction, and turned it into a superior GT car...it's a ridiculously impressive package.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:00 AM   #194
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I don't know about most of you, but after seeing Aaron Golds wreck at VIR and reading his mind wave as he was entering the twisties, I am starting to feel a bit of mental pressure knowing how dangerous and costly a little mistake could be with this "weapon"... I think the word "weapon" is the new buzzword up at Milford for the ZL1 (and the CTS-V) and rightfully so. With all due respect to everyone's credentials, there are many of us, me included, who may as well be driving a Nascar vehicle around town
Don't read TOO much into it....Aaron Gold was a great guy to hang around with - but the track was wet, and he proclaimed himself a horrible driver to begin with. Don't read too much into that, either.

It was an honest mistake...I think he was pushing the car a bit too hard on a track that wasn't going to help him any.

I can tell you I've never, ever, ever been around a road course before - much less in a car this potent...and I was completely surprised at how hard I could push it before it felt like I was leaving my skill-level. It's so forgiving...you'd think you were in a video game at times.

I think that accident could have easily been prevented...but I am very glad that he's okay and it wasn't any worse.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:43 AM   #195
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The astounding thing that is as true as the above statement -- is how EASY it is to drive. Just remarkable...

I'm so glad I had a chance to fly around VIR in the ZL1...it just confirms everything we're being told. It IS a supercar, there's no two ways about it!

They Chevy team was very, very, VERY proud of the figures the car produced around the track - and it sure seemed like a celebration that night over dinner.

I'll have a full (and real long) re-cap posted tomorrow evening...and lots more pictures (including the undercarraige! ) to go with it. You guys who've ordered one are just going to be thrilled as ever when you get it!


EDIT: OH...and fwiw...the GT500 doesn't stand a chance. Chevy's taken this car to a whole new plane, where Ford can't follow. At least not in this generation. It may be faster in the quarter -- and there's NO doubt that it'll be a blast to drive with all that power...but the ZL1 is just better in nearly every other way.

I'm almost to the point of not comparing them anymore. Mustang has continued down the same path as they've ever been on - improving what they do real well. Chevy took the Camaro in a new direction, and turned it into a superior GT car...it's a ridiculously impressive package.
Did you actually get to do a Q&A with anyone? If so I hope write that up too. Must have been an unforgettable event.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:11 AM   #196
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Impressive!!

ZR1 2:45 second lap.. If only the ZL1 weighed 34xx-36xx lbs!

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Old 02-29-2012, 06:42 AM   #197
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I'm just thiking that the auto can't possibly know what gear the driver wants 100% of the time. I don't buy that it can do that.

If it were a auto with dual clutches and manual control I'd certainly be impressed, but the ZL1 has a hydraulic auto.
Ya, but that's why it has tap shift available.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:12 AM   #198
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The Camaro smoked the Nissan GTR. I find that a bit hard to believe.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:16 AM   #199
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The Camaro smoked the Nissan GTR. I find that a bit hard to believe.
Ya, it is all smoke and mirrors now that the government owns part of GM it is a conspiracy to take over the auto industry and show the GTR is a crappy car
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:28 AM   #200
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The astounding thing that is as true as the above statement -- is how EASY it is to drive. Just remarkable...

I'm so glad I had a chance to fly around VIR in the ZL1...it just confirms everything we're being told. It IS a supercar, there's no two ways about it!

They Chevy team was very, very, VERY proud of the figures the car produced around the track - and it sure seemed like a celebration that night over dinner.

I'll have a full (and real long) re-cap posted tomorrow evening...and lots more pictures (including the undercarraige! ) to go with it. You guys who've ordered one are just going to be thrilled as ever when you get it!


EDIT: OH...and fwiw...the GT500 doesn't stand a chance. Chevy's taken this car to a whole new plane, where Ford can't follow. At least not in this generation. It may be faster in the quarter -- and there's NO doubt that it'll be a blast to drive with all that power...but the ZL1 is just better in nearly every other way.

I'm almost to the point of not comparing them anymore. Mustang has continued down the same path as they've ever been on - improving what they do real well. Chevy took the Camaro in a new direction, and turned it into a superior GT car...it's a ridiculously impressive package.
I bet you had a blast ..look forward to your post and pictures

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