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Old 02-29-2012, 07:34 AM   #201
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I bet you had a blast ..look forward to your post and pictures

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What an experience Joe. I'm really glad for and envious of you.
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Old 02-29-2012, 07:46 AM   #202
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The astounding thing that is as true as the above statement -- is how EASY it is to drive. Just remarkable...

I'm so glad I had a chance to fly around VIR in the ZL1...it just confirms everything we're being told. It IS a supercar, there's no two ways about it!

They Chevy team was very, very, VERY proud of the figures the car produced around the track - and it sure seemed like a celebration that night over dinner.

I'll have a full (and real long) re-cap posted tomorrow evening...and lots more pictures (including the undercarraige! ) to go with it. You guys who've ordered one are just going to be thrilled as ever when you get it!


EDIT: OH...and fwiw...the GT500 doesn't stand a chance. Chevy's taken this car to a whole new plane, where Ford can't follow. At least not in this generation. It may be faster in the quarter -- and there's NO doubt that it'll be a blast to drive with all that power...but the ZL1 is just better in nearly every other way.

I'm almost to the point of not comparing them anymore. Mustang has continued down the same path as they've ever been on - improving what they do real well. Chevy took the Camaro in a new direction, and turned it into a superior GT car...it's a ridiculously impressive package.

All I want to know is, was you hooked up for blood pressure and pulse rate monitoring??? A few of those curve transitions must have had your heart thumping. Hope you have a video of the drive?
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:41 AM   #203
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The ZL1 is superior in nearly every way. hands down. WAY faster.


this reminds me of the 2011GT introduction a little. Ford boys on the back burner since 98, get a car to compete. Ford fans got revenge for being slow for a decade. and shoved it in F-body boys face.


Now chevy fans get their due. and i forsee GT500 fans getting it handed to them. No more listening to the GT500 "nuclear option" in every conversation about who is badder.


the ZL1 might be the best GT car ever. i dont know if it has the 'soul' of 60's muscle cars, but its numbers cant be ignored.
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:02 AM   #204
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I have two thoughts for those doubting what a ZL1 can or can't beat:

1) The ZL1 ran any awesome time by anyone's standards, it put down a 2:52 and a lot of other great cars haven't. Maybe those other cars could in theory run a 2:52 also, but they simply haven't yet.

2) If you are in disbelief about the ZL1 beating any particular car (e.g. GTR, Z06, whatever) at VIR, just remember those other laps were done on different days with different drivers.

But at the end of the day ZL1 still ran a 2:52, and until someone proves that this ZL1 was a ringer or on race tires, the ZL1 is simply in exceptional company even if another car like the GTR is "better" or beats it on another track somewhere else.
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Old 02-29-2012, 10:11 AM   #205
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The ZL1 is superior in nearly every way. hands down. WAY faster.


this reminds me of the 2011GT introduction a little. Ford boys on the back burner since 98, get a car to compete. Ford fans got revenge for being slow for a decade. and shoved it in F-body boys face.


Now chevy fans get their due. and i forsee GT500 fans getting it handed to them. No more listening to the GT500 "nuclear option" in every conversation about who is badder.


the ZL1 might be the best GT car ever. i dont know if it has the 'soul' of 60's muscle cars, but its numbers cant be ignored.
LOL someones forgetting about the TERMINATOR. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.The ZL1 is finally the first GM car in the segment faster than the 03' cobra (which was built and released in 02')
the zl1 is an awesome car and the numbers show it despite being down on HP to the competition. 2:52.xx is an incredible time. im doubtful the 2012 will be able to match the ZL1 now. The 2013? i have no idea, might be closer (on a road course, definately not straight line) but still doubtful now.
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Old 02-29-2012, 11:06 AM   #206
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I hope they release a track edition ZL1 in the future with the Sport Cup tires to really see where this car stands against the Z06/ZR1. Obviously it won't beat them, but it would close the gap.
The ZL1 already beat the Z06 with the Z07 package

7. Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 2:51.80 '10 570 / 1430
8. KTM X-Bow 2:52.30 '08 241 / 871
[2:52.38 2012 Camaro ZL1]

9. Nissan GT-R 2:53.20 '11 530 / 1736
10. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 2:53.50 '11 512 / 1394
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:05 PM   #207
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The ZL1 already beat the Z06 with the Z07 package

7. Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 2:51.80 '10 570 / 1430
8. KTM X-Bow 2:52.30 '08 241 / 871
[2:52.38 2012 Camaro ZL1]

9. Nissan GT-R 2:53.20 '11 530 / 1736
10. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 2:53.50 '11 512 / 1394
I'd like to see a same day, same driver rematch. I said, many months ago, that I would venture to say ZL1 might, and should be targeted for Z06 (more to be most assured the GT500 will be outmatched), but I wasn't really sure it was possible without the stickiest rubber. I'm going to still try to be vocal about a Track Pack, and I firmly believe that ZL1 would still be nipping on Z06/7's heels on the same track, under the same conditions, with the same driver. I'm still not completely buying the current Z06/7 time as the best it could achieve, but I'm also not taking anything away from ZL1.
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Old 02-29-2012, 12:54 PM   #208
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With a good driver this GT500 would have gone much faster. He continually misjudged the need to down shift and hit the rev limiter 10 or more times (it looks like it was rev limited to no more than 6200...I thought the GT500 had more). The car didn't look as settled as the ZL1, but we expected that. This is a good video...who was driving? For a while, I was dreading the thought that the ZL1 might get beat by a GT500, but after watching this video, I would whole heartedly give credit to the GT500 if it won. This competition is absolutely awesome!!!
This car was driven by Vehicle Dynamics engineer Gene Martindale, the SVT equivalent to Aaron Link. This was a Ford conducted test. I think they probably got all they could out of the car given the track and ambient conditions.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:02 PM   #209
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The ZL1 already beat the Z06 with the Z07 package

7. Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 2:51.80 '10 570 / 1430
8. KTM X-Bow 2:52.30 '08 241 / 871
[2:52.38 2012 Camaro ZL1]

9. Nissan GT-R 2:53.20 '11 530 / 1736
10. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 2:53.50 '11 512 / 1394
Different driver and conditions. On the same day with a hotshoe driver, I'd put money on the Z06/Z07 every time, especially with the Sport Cup tires. Look at the Ring times GM released, not even close.
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Old 02-29-2012, 01:12 PM   #210
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The astounding thing that is as true as the above statement -- is how EASY it is to drive. Just remarkable...

I'm so glad I had a chance to fly around VIR in the ZL1...it just confirms everything we're being told. It IS a supercar, there's no two ways about it!

They Chevy team was very, very, VERY proud of the figures the car produced around the track - and it sure seemed like a celebration that night over dinner.

I'll have a full (and real long) re-cap posted tomorrow evening...and lots more pictures (including the undercarraige! ) to go with it. You guys who've ordered one are just going to be thrilled as ever when you get it!


EDIT: OH...and fwiw...the GT500 doesn't stand a chance. Chevy's taken this car to a whole new plane, where Ford can't follow. At least not in this generation. It may be faster in the quarter -- and there's NO doubt that it'll be a blast to drive with all that power...but the ZL1 is just better in nearly every other way.

I'm almost to the point of not comparing them anymore. Mustang has continued down the same path as they've ever been on - improving what they do real well. Chevy took the Camaro in a new direction, and turned it into a superior GT car...it's a ridiculously impressive package.
so Joe, you saying like the ZL1? you lucky dawg! You got to drive it around VIR in that thing? How many "oh $hit" moments did you have?
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:25 PM   #211
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LOL someones forgetting about the TERMINATOR. Lets not get ahead of ourselves.The ZL1 is finally the first GM car in the segment faster than the 03' cobra (which was built and released in 02')
the zl1 is an awesome car and the numbers show it despite being down on HP to the competition. 2:52.xx is an incredible time. im doubtful the 2012 will be able to match the ZL1 now. The 2013? i have no idea, might be closer (on a road course, definately not straight line) but still doubtful now.
ha ha. gm was out of the sement from 2002 to 2010. this stuff cracks me up becaseu it has always been back n forth but people try to pretend it wasn't. stock vs stock the mustang was slower from 94-2002. I have owned different versions of both. 01 cobra vs 01 SS camaro the camaro wins striat line and in the twisty's. 2002 no corba. 2003 no camaro.

2003 out comes the cobra six speed finally, 12 second quarter. fast car but the c5 Z06 crushes it though but they are not in the same segment though. 2002 Z06 was the first stock car I ever drove than made me sit back and go WOW this thing moves out. Car had more potential than I had driving ability. As good as the 2003 cobra was it was not a dual threat car without suspentions mods.

now GM is back in the segment. 2010 ss beats 2010 GT. 2011 GT beats 2011 SS. 2012 ZL-1 will beat 2012 cobra. 2013 who knows.

both companies made cool cars period but neither compnay has been on top of the heap every year. I mean the couple years ford made the GT it competed with if not bettered the vet even though price point there were in different segments.

I would lover to own all the current varients boss 302, challenger 392, ZL-1, 2013 GT500. they are all good looking fast cars. I just think the ZL-1 is going to be the most well rounded so that is what I ordered.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:45 PM   #212
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The ZL1 already beat the Z06 with the Z07 package

7. Lamborghini Gallardo LP 570-4 Superleggera 2:51.80 '10 570 / 1430
8. KTM X-Bow 2:52.30 '08 241 / 871
[2:52.38 2012 Camaro ZL1]
9. Nissan GT-R 2:53.20 '11 530 / 1736
10. Chevrolet Corvette Z06 Z07 Package 2:53.50 '11 512 / 1394

yeah magazine driver vs test driver and different day. with the time they threw down in the ZR-1 that day the Z07 would have most likely been right in between them somewhere. zl1 2:52 Zr1 2:45 Z07 2:48ish. granted that is magazine racing them but I feel it pretty reliztic posibility.


I think one would have to be dreaming to think the ZL-1 same day equal driver is going to be faster than a Z06 Z07. the fact it is probably within the same balpark is awesome though.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:52 PM   #213
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I honestly don't care what the ZL1 beat or doesn't beat.
It's just a badass car.
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Old 02-29-2012, 02:55 PM   #214
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I honestly don't care what the ZL1 beat or doesn't beat.
It's just a badass car.
But the fact it beats other cars makes it a badazz car If it could not beat a scion around a track everyone would be doing this
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:11 PM   #215
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I am very impressed with the ZL1 performance at VIR. Hat's off to GM for getting a car a large as the ZL1 to the top of VIR fast list. Just goes to show how far technology has come in the past 10 years.

And its still bone stock imagine it with a few mods and a skilled driver. Its gonna upset a lot of vette owners at the track when they have to wave a camaro on by. Its also gonna take one hell of a driver with BIG cajones for the 2013 GT00 to beat this VIR time.

Great times to be an american muscle car fan.

Unfornunitly this time is gonna be consider slow once the 6th gen ZL1 is released.

It would be the total package for me if GM loosened the reins a little so it would deliver 11.7-11.8's all day in the 1/4. All it would take would be a few key strokes in the tune considering a lot of heavy AMG's are running in the 11's.
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Old 02-29-2012, 03:41 PM   #216
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I don't know about most of you, but after seeing Aaron Golds wreck at VIR and reading his mind wave as he was entering the twisties, I am starting to feel a bit of mental pressure knowing how dangerous and costly a little mistake could be with this "weapon"... I think the word "weapon" is the new buzzword up at Milford for the ZL1 (and the CTS-V) and rightfully so. With all due respect to everyone's credentials, there are many of us, me included, who may as well be driving a Nascar vehicle around town

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Don't read TOO much into it....Aaron Gold was a great guy to hang around with - but the track was wet, and he proclaimed himself a horrible driver to begin with. Don't read too much into that, either.

It was an honest mistake...I think he was pushing the car a bit too hard on a track that wasn't going to help him any.

I can tell you I've never, ever, ever been around a road course before - much less in a car this potent...and I was completely surprised at how hard I could push it before it felt like I was leaving my skill-level. It's so forgiving...you'd think you were in a video game at times.

I think that accident could have easily been prevented...but I am very glad that he's okay and it wasn't any worse.

I think what everyone needs to read into it is how powerful the beast is --- Like I said --- like driving a Nascar around on the street; And that could get away from many folks real fast who are not used to it (and respectfully, some who ARE used to it!).... Just my "cautionary input"... the dang car looks like it could get intimidating as you get into the throttle! So tell us,
did it scare ya?
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:03 PM   #217
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ha ha. gm was out of the sement from 2002 to 2010. this stuff cracks me up becaseu it has always been back n forth but people try to pretend it wasn't. stock vs stock the mustang was slower from 94-2002. I have owned different versions of both. 01 cobra vs 01 SS camaro the camaro wins striat line and in the twisty's. 2002 no corba. 2003 no camaro.

2003 out comes the cobra six speed finally, 12 second quarter. fast car but the c5 Z06 crushes it though but they are not in the same segment though. 2002 Z06 was the first stock car I ever drove than made me sit back and go WOW this thing moves out. Car had more potential than I had driving ability. As good as the 2003 cobra was it was not a dual threat car without suspentions mods.

now GM is back in the segment. 2010 ss beats 2010 GT. 2011 GT beats 2011 SS. 2012 ZL-1 will beat 2012 cobra. 2013 who knows.

both companies made cool cars period but neither compnay has been on top of the heap every year. I mean the couple years ford made the GT it competed with if not bettered the vet even though price point there were in different segments.

I would lover to own all the current varients boss 302, challenger 392, ZL-1, 2013 GT500. they are all good looking fast cars. I just think the ZL-1 is going to be the most well rounded so that is what I ordered.
Generaly speaking, with the exception of the late 80s the camaro has always had a performance edge on the mustang, but the stang still sold more. Those 4.6 modular motors were a total embarrassment imo. Mustang fans had no choice but to put a blower on them to compete with GMs smallblock, but Ford has gained a lot of experience with F.I. and make some kickass F.I. V8s. I loved the terminator. I still think Ford has edge when it comes to F.I. V8s but GM makes better total performance vehicles.
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Old 02-29-2012, 04:40 PM   #218
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...
I think what everyone needs to read into it is how powerful the beast is --- Like I said --- like driving a Nascar around on the street;....
im pretty sure NASCAR cars make about 200hp more and weigh roughly 600lbs less.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:03 PM   #219
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Generaly speaking, with the exception of the late 80s the camaro has always had a performance edge on the mustang, but the stang still sold more. Those 4.6 modular motors were a total embarrassment imo. Mustang fans had no choice but to put a blower on them to compete with GMs smallblock, but Ford has gained a lot of experience with F.I. and make some kickass F.I. V8s. I loved the terminator. I still think Ford has edge when it comes to F.I. V8s but GM makes better total performance vehicles.
yeah 4v sucks N/A they don't make the torque you need so you are forced to re-gear the car. boosted though they really come alive. N/A the milage is really no different either but then boosted they seem to a tad better.

I think chevy needs to reduce diplacement if going boosed. you don't need the displacement to make the torque.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:07 PM   #220
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yeah 4v sucks N/A they don't make the torque you need so you are forced to re-gear the car. boosted though they really come alive. N/A the milage is really no different either but then boosted they seem to a tad better.

I think chevy needs to reduce diplacement if going boosed. you don't need the displacement to make the torque.
Even though they were drastically overshadowed by the Terminators, 03/04 Mach ones liked to run pretty good. Not on par with the LS1, but certainly a LONG way in terms of development from the '96 2V

I'm looking forward to seeing this car on the dragstrip, in the hands of a seasoned owner in good air. 11.7's? 11.8's?
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:15 PM   #221
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Even though they were drastically overshadowed by the Terminators, 03/04 Mach ones liked to run pretty good. Not on par with the LS1, but certainly a LONG way in terms of development from the '96 2V

I'm looking forward to seeing this car on the dragstrip, in the hands of a seasoned owner in good air. 11.7's? 11.8's?
mach 1's had strait axel reviesed cam's. they run really well with a gear swap.

mach 1 with a gear swap can outrun a "terminator" stock down the 1320. still have the tr-3650 though.
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Old 02-29-2012, 05:35 PM   #222
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yeah 4v sucks N/A they don't make the torque you need so you are forced to re-gear the car.
Not all 4V NA motors suck.

The 4V 5.4L Cobra R is just as strong as a L99/LS3. It was severely under rated just like the Terminator and a lot of 5.4L's dyno in the 370-380whp range and put down more wtq then whp.

SVTP: Does anyone know what 2000 Cobra R dyno's?

It's a popular motor down under as it was put in their 4 door Falcons and the NA 5.4L in the Lincoln Navigators makes 50 foot pounds of torque more then horsepower for 300/350.

http://www.caranddriver.com/photos-0...e-photo-134214
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Old 02-29-2012, 08:49 PM   #223
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Did you actually get to do a Q&A with anyone? If so I hope write that up too. Must have been an unforgettable event.
It WAS!

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What an experience Joe. I'm really glad for and envious of you.
Thanks!! I had SUCH a blast!

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All I want to know is, was you hooked up for blood pressure and pulse rate monitoring??? A few of those curve transitions must have had your heart thumping. Hope you have a video of the drive?
No...but truth be told...this car hooks so hard in the corners - on a track like VIR, it tests your intestinal fortitude... But what a thrill!

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But at the end of the day ZL1 still ran a 2:52, and until someone proves that this ZL1 was a ringer or on race tires, the ZL1 is simply in exceptional company even if another car like the GTR is "better" or beats it on another track somewhere else.
The best part is that car was a factory car...no roll cages...nada. THAT is what makes things so impressive!

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so Joe, you saying like the ZL1? you lucky dawg! You got to drive it around VIR in that thing? How many "oh $hit" moments did you have?
Only two...and I have PTM to thank for getting me back on track. I'm a quick learner, and got comfortable with the track...the car...the car is just remarkable - I couldn't get near its limits except for a few turns...there's just SO much car there!
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Old 02-29-2012, 09:13 PM   #224
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Originally Posted by DoggyB22 View Post
Impressive!!

ZR1 2:45 second lap.. If only the ZL1 weighed 34xx-36xx lbs!

In my mind and after watching both videos, it appears the ZL1 is much easier to drive at 10/10s than the ZR1. I'm sure the light weight and additional HP had a lot to do with the control. Wish I could try both.....lol!
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Old 03-01-2012, 12:03 AM   #225
Truck Norris
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Originally Posted by ParisTNDude View Post
In my mind and after watching both videos, it appears the ZL1 is much easier to drive at 10/10s than the ZR1. I'm sure the light weight and additional HP had a lot to do with the control. Wish I could try both.....lol!


Heck ya it is easier to drive at the limit. The ZR1 requires a pro driver with a lot of experience to take to the limit. Just listen to what Randy said about it in last years Best drivers car.

Randy's impressions at 2:40


These are serious car's that should not typically be ones first track car as there is more chance for injury or even death when your car is capable of such astounding speeds. A Cobalt SS would be a a better choice for your first track car that is much safer and easier to push to the limit and get the fundamentals of racing down.

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Last edited by Truck Norris; 03-01-2012 at 12:42 AM.
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