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Old 09-06-2012, 12:22 PM   #4131
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Thats fine....think what you wish. Your misunderstanding or disregards for the engineering of the space shuttle is beyond staggering.

.
My misunderstanding and disregard for the engineering of the space shuttle? Are you for real? I'm a mechanical engineer with a specialty in fluid in aerospace engineering.

I wanted nothing more when I was a child but to work for NASA. I almost went to PSU for Aerospace Engineering (I was accepted and had a swimming scholarship) but decided against it due the job instability of NASA and the fact a Mechanical Engineer can produce Aerospace work while Aerospace can't do the same.

However, you can't ignore blatantly true facts.

The shuttle program was an overwhelmingly positive program for NASA. However, it was GROSSLY underpriced at the time of proposal. It was said that they would have an original turnaround time of 1 month, and the price to maintain them was $XB dollars cheaper than producing Saturn V+ rockets. In the end....they were $XXB dollars MORE and we lost 2 of them in devastating accidents.

The Space Shuttle is a heavy loader. It produced Skylab (which my mother worked with Contravis on), it loaded up the Hubble Telescope (fixed it god knows how many times), and produced the ISS. So many things have been produced by the Space Shuttle program. What I"m saying is, a heavy loader that was proposed based on the Saturn V rocket would have been cheaper and more efficient.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:26 PM   #4132
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Brendan, your point about the Shuttle program makes sense when put into the context that you're considering.

However, I think the problem lies within the way the general populous views the Shuttle. It's not about it being a heavy vehicle engineering program -- it's the psychological and historical significance.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:27 PM   #4133
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Brendan, your point about the Shuttle program makes sense when put into the context that you're considering.

However, I think the problem lies within the way the general populous views the Shuttle. It's not about it being a heavy vehicle engineering program -- it's the psychological and historical significance.
But thats the problem. People don't see it for the overall picture.

For the money invested in the shuttle program, we could have gone another direction with a Saturn V+ and perhaps had a higher success rate, less money spent, and perhaps we wouldn't be relying on SpaceX for our future transportation.

Huge fan of SpaceX by the way.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:31 PM   #4134
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But thats the problem. People don't see it for the overall picture.

For the money invested in the shuttle program, we could have gone another direction with a Saturn V+ and perhaps had a higher success rate, less money spent, and perhaps we wouldn't be relying on SpaceX for our future transportation.

Huge fan of SpaceX by the way.
The thing is, does anyone need to see the big picture of the Shuttle program at this point? It's dead -- but it's contributions to society and our psyche are not.

Further, I'd venture to guess that all of the points you mention regarding the Shuttle vs. Saturn V variations were considered by decision makers who ultimately decided on the Shuttle program. There was likely much more to it than just engineers with sketch pads -- management, politics, and bureaucracy.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:33 PM   #4135
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You see the shuttle as a "financial let down". I see it as a source of American pride. Then again I was alive and aware for its first launch through the end of the program. YOU fail to see the big picture. If I wanted nothing more than basic transportation to physically transport me from point A to point B then I'd drive a Honda.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:33 PM   #4136
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The thing is, does anyone need to see the big picture of the Shuttle program at this point? It's dead -- but it's contributions to society and our psyche are not.

Further, I'd venture to guess that all of the points you mention regarding the Shuttle vs. Saturn V variations were considered by decision makers who ultimately decided on the Shuttle program. There was likely much more to it than just engineers with sketch pads -- management, politics, and bureaucracy.
Oh i agree, the debate on the shuttle is now mute, but it doesn't change the fact that you HAVE to question why we went a different direction. And if we did, could we be better off?

I won't lie...I was shedding tears when I was watching the CNN feed of Discovery being taken to DC.
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Old 09-06-2012, 12:43 PM   #4137
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Oh i agree, the debate on the shuttle is now mute, but it doesn't change the fact that you HAVE to question why we went a different direction. And if we did, could we be better off?
I agree with you -- hindsight is 20/20, after all.

At the end of the day, the Shuttle program was determined to be the best course of action at that time for whatever reason.

When Jamie says:

Quote:
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I see it as a source of American pride.
One can see that for non-engineers, it's not about the technology or how money could have been better spent -- it's a reflection of America. Putting it in a context of being a "let down" creates distemper.

Analyzing it to determine if we'd be better off isn't taking care of a problem.

Analyzing it to determine how to be better off takes care of the engineering aspect AND continues to build on the pride created from the past without discounting previous efforts or insulting one's pride.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:33 PM   #4138
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Originally Posted by demonspeed View Post
I agree with you -- hindsight is 20/20, after all.

At the end of the day, the Shuttle program was determined to be the best course of action at that time for whatever reason.

When Jamie says:



One can see that for non-engineers, it's not about the technology or how money could have been better spent -- it's a reflection of America. Putting it in a context of being a "let down" creates distemper.

Analyzing it to determine if we'd be better off isn't taking care of a problem.

Analyzing it to determine how to be better off takes care of the engineering aspect AND continues to build on the pride created from the past without discounting previous efforts or insulting one's pride.
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:36 PM   #4139
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I think lunch is not agreeing with me. *poop*
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Old 09-06-2012, 01:48 PM   #4140
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I think lunch is not agreeing with me. *poop*
I felt that way after Chipotle last week. I love Chipotle, though, so my insides will just have to deal.
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:37 PM   #4141
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Space Shuttle debate?? Guess its an engineer thing? Guess this whats happens when Tahseen leaves for a couple of days.

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Old 09-06-2012, 02:43 PM   #4142
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Fyi Pittsburgh mills is now hosting a Friday night cruise as well as Wednesday night
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Old 09-06-2012, 02:45 PM   #4143
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I think lunch is not agreeing with me. *poop*
lmao
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Old 09-06-2012, 03:02 PM   #4144
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Hope I'm not to late. The real Gtrs are going single turbo. I lived in Japan for 18 months while in the Marines. I owned a Skyline GTR R32 and my roommate had a Sylvia. We both went single turbo. Hell most of the guys I knew had single turbo. And this is before America ever heard of drifting. The highest HP Skylines had single turbos. Now the new GTR I have no idea. I wouldn't buy a car that's an auto so I was never interested in what they do with it. It looks sick but I think they took the fun out of it with the auto.
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