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Old 05-01-2009, 07:00 PM   #51
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I haven't posted much but love to read your ideas. I don't think that GM just builds what they want and ship to whoever. They build based on orders,which are base on allocation. So what is built and shipped is what dealers order. If dealers don't order the pre orders, thats not GM's fault. Think about this: I'm sure Gm and the dealers are hurting for money. If I needed cash I would order a car I knew was sold so I could get my cash quickly. The first promised round of dealer cars are made now. I say relax and see what happens in May.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:06 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Matt'sSS View Post
I absolutely understand everyone's frustration with the wait, but I'd hope everyone would be willing to think more big picture.

GM just discontinued Pontiac to stay afloat http://www.pontiac.com/owners/pontia...ued-statement/

Several other brands are on the auction block (Hummer, Saturn, Opel, & Saab) http://www.montrealgazette.com/Cars/...y.html?tab=VID (3rd paragraph)

I have no doubt GM / Chevrolet & it's key brands will survive this, but they are going to have to loose some limbs to do so, and make smarter decisions knowing that if they dont, they won't survive.

So is it an inconvenience to everyone waiting for their car? Absolutely! But I'm sure there is a good business reason for it.

However... if there is not...

You're missing the point. The point is that they ARE building "x" amount of cars per day. So why are they not building cars they have already sold? It makes no difference to them WHO they build them for...so why not build cars for the customers who have already agreed to pay for them instead of building cars to attract more people to add to the already long list of disgruntled customers who are waiting for them?
Thats just plain common sense from Business 101 "give the customers what they want". And they wonder why GM is in the state they are in? I don't wonder anymore
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:10 PM   #53
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Originally Posted by detroitboy View Post
You're missing the point. The point is that they ARE building "x" amount of cars per day. So why are they not building cars they have already sold? It makes no difference to them WHO they build them for...so why not build cars for the customers who have already agreed to pay for them instead of building cars to attract more people to add to the already long list of disgruntled customers who are waiting for them?
Thats just plain common sense from Business 101 "give the customers what they want". And they wonder why GM is in the state they are in? I don't wonder anymore
Right! Why build a car that might sell when you can build a car that will sell. Get to those maybes next.

They are loosing their "birds in the hands".
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:12 PM   #54
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SO.........since we were all told that the pre-order cars would be made between now and the 4th quarter, why the rage 6 weeks after production started?
Cars that show up on lots that you can buy before you get the pre-order are simply cancelled orders.
If you read any other threads, totally believing production codes would be naive.
Bzzzzz! Wrong!
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:15 PM   #55
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Did you NOT see all the SS's that have been delivered??? Dealer cars are NOT SS's. My dealer has teh 1st allocation showing up this weekend, the 2nd next week and mine is on the line now. You all knew the dealers were getting a car to show off. Relax.....
40 SSs were delivered to dealers that were not preorders or dealer "one per".

However, these might have been built before March 16th - going by VIN.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:21 PM   #56
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everybody just "ooosahhhhh"
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:32 PM   #57
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GM has no reason to delay our orders, think about it, with the economy they need all the income they can get, i have confidence that they will be doing pre orders as fast as possible until they are finished because they have buyers lined up... they have no reason to be playing games when they have customers lined up to pay for cars....
damn the CGM is good looking with the RS wheels .. especially from 3/4 rear. Makes me think I should have switched. I hemmed & hawed for weeks on silver vs. the gray on my RS.

I also went back and forth on the sunroof ... decided no cuz of the supposed screwed up roofline ...

I also have never had a definitive answer on whether the std RS wheels are the dark color they appear on the builder or whether they are in fact lighter ....

bla bla bla ... if I had my car I wouldn't be boring everyone with this drivel ...
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:40 PM   #58
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I don't think the 614 sold cars means that only 614 preorders were built.

I think it means that only 614 preorders were delivered and picked up.

No cars are "sold" until the invoice and car is delivered.
Yes. That 614 also includes dealer lot cars that have already been sold. And I don't think that total MY is what's been built since 3/16 but also includes CTF, etc as well as those orange TX cars.
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Old 05-01-2009, 07:52 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by Matt'sSS View Post
I absolutely understand everyone's frustration with the wait, but I'd hope everyone would be willing to think more big picture.

GM just discontinued Pontiac to stay afloat http://www.pontiac.com/owners/pontia...ued-statement/

Several other brands are on the auction block (Hummer, Saturn, Opel, & Saab) http://www.montrealgazette.com/Cars/...y.html?tab=VID (3rd paragraph)

I have no doubt GM / Chevrolet & it's key brands will survive this, but they are going to have to loose some limbs to do so, and make smarter decisions knowing that if they dont, they won't survive.

So is it an inconvenience to everyone waiting for their car? Absolutely! But I'm sure there is a good business reason for it.

However... if there is not...


Exactly!!!!!

A few thousand preorders are not GM's biggest concern. They have to throw a bone to there network (car dealers) and make showroom camaro to attract the man off the street that's casually shopping. Do you really think, the preorders, are more important than the guys that feed them, the car dealer, even the rental car companys. I've driven a rental car or two and thought this car sucks or wow! this is a nice car. So there's a bigger picture and they know what there doing. This isn't the first car they ever made!

Don't worry! Christmas is coming!
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:16 PM   #60
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GM will do what it wants to do. No matter what we all say, do or think.

Reality is: what was happened, and what will happen over the next few months (with regard to pre-sold production and deliveries) has already been decided by GM , and has been for a while.

Accept that you are powerless to change anything about GM's "master plan". Have your own plan and stick to it. Example: I will wait 'till July 10th. On July 11th, I cancel and will re-order next February, or not (depending on how I feel about it next year).

Then try and get on with things and enjoy the Summer. Otherwise, the stress is going to eat you alive.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:29 PM   #61
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I placed my order November 1st, and as of this moment I am still at 1100. I am doing everything I can to remain patient. Lately I have seen a lot of posts about problems relative to transit, that the first group of cars are still in quality for review, etc. I am telling myself that I may be lucky that my car has not been built yet as when it does get built the majority, if not all, of quality and transit issues will be resolved. This should provide me with a high quality car. I wanted my car by mid-June so I could make the Carlisle PA event at the end of June. It is looking less likely I will have it by then. I keep telling myself that after the May launch (in a week), the gates will open wide and not only will 350+ cars per day come off the line, but the transportation length we are witnessing today will be a thing of the past as well. I had, and still have to a large degree, a real issue with Avis getting all these cars in advance of those who preordered. But then again, I guess Avis can be viewed as a preorder, but just on a larger scale. Like stated in an earlier post I believe we single pre-orders will provide a much better return on spreading the “word” than a bunch of people renting a car just to beat on.

Another thing – I believe GM has done a great job in pulling off a monumental project. What we see is less than 5% of the efforts in producing and delivering a car like this. And the quality of people like FbodFather is unbelievable. Even with all of the negativity from various posts he has remained very professional. Thank you.

OK – All done now. Thanks.
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Old 05-01-2009, 08:30 PM   #62
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GM will do what it wants to do. No matter what we all say, do or think.

Reality is: what was happened, and what will happen over the next few months (with regard to pre-sold production and deliveries) has already been decided by GM , and has been for a while.

Accept that you are powerless to change anything about GM's "master plan". Have your own plan and stick to it. Example: I will wait 'till July 10th. On July 11th, I cancel and will re-order next February, or not (depending on how I feel about it next year).

Then try and get on with things and enjoy the Summer. Otherwise, the stress is going to eat you alive.

True enough.... my TPW was the week of April 20th.... called 800 number today, and they said it is scheduled for May 17th...
What should I do? (I dont need an answer, btw). I'll tell you what I'm going to do... NOTHING... because there is nothing I can do. Empty threats of cancelling? Bashing GM, and their system? Reality check...
If I wanted any other car (in the price range), they are all readily available... but I dont, I want THAT one... MINE 2010 CAMARO SS...
So everyone, take a chill, they managed to build 600+ Preorders all while building the Showroom cars... Find the Positives, and stop being so negative!
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Old 05-01-2009, 09:40 PM   #63
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You're missing the point. The point is that they ARE building "x" amount of cars per day. So why are they not building cars they have already sold? It makes no difference to them WHO they build them for...so why not build cars for the customers who have already agreed to pay for them instead of building cars to attract more people to add to the already long list of disgruntled customers who are waiting for them?
Thats just plain common sense from Business 101 "give the customers what they want". And they wonder why GM is in the state they are in? I don't wonder anymore
Sorry, but IMHO you're missing the point. What do you think is more important to the accountants... thousands individual orders from consumers that mostly have only put down a small deposit on a car they are not even required to buy? Or thousands of cars on one single order to a massive business customer that all of which are virtually guaranteed payment, and probably have 5x as many orders with other GM vehicles not just this year, but every year after. Which is more important to their immediate survival?

In addition to this, they believe in the Camaro (as do I). They built this car to be a world beater. Put a $23k 304hp Camaro or the $31k 426hp SS in the mix with any comparably priced segment vehicle and GM (along with most {if not all} of the mag's and auto journalists out there) will expect the Camaro to be the clear winner. The more cars they can put into the hands of non owners (cars at dealerships to test drive, rental cars) the more customers they will win over, and the better our chances will be of seeing a 6th generation Camaro.

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Old 05-01-2009, 09:54 PM   #64
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We ALL knew this was going to happen.

1) F-ed up orders
2) F-ed up delears cancelling orders
3) F-ed up Market Adjust Value
4) Rental Cars co getting SS before pre-orders , That one I did not know.
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Old 05-01-2009, 10:04 PM   #65
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If you listen to the dealers that extra car for each dealer will not sit for a show room car, it will be sold to the highest bidder who comes in the week they get it. i doubt any dealer will keep car if they could sell it over msrp to a person that walks in. So the whole idea that GM will have a show room car at each dealer is Bull-s__t.
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Old 05-01-2009, 11:28 PM   #66
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If you listen to the dealers that extra car for each dealer will not sit for a show room car, it will be sold to the highest bidder who comes in the week they get it. i doubt any dealer will keep car if they could sell it over msrp to a person that walks in. So the whole idea that GM will have a show room car at each dealer is Bull-s__t.
True! They are having a big Camaro parade in Houston like they did in Dallas a week ago. I called one of the dealers today and he said after the event I could come down and bascially buy or bid on their two cars, so that is correct. The couple cars each dealer gets seem to go right up for sale and will not sit there for folks to come in and look at or test drive.

I'm just as upset as the rest of you, but cancelling your order will do nothing except hurt you. They will just turn around and sell your order to someone else probably for more money and then you'll have to watch all of us driving around in our cars and wish you had not cancelled. Just gotta be patient and hope the big shipment of Camaro's is coming our way.

The dealership I called today also said they would be selling their SS's for 10 K over MSRP!
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:23 AM   #67
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Originally Posted by MacMulkin View Post
MY 2010 APRIL production 4,878
MY 2010 TOTAL 7,814
Those numbers are great news!

It's been SEVEN years since the Camaro/Firebird were able to be purchased new. What an awesome year this is.

The fact that they're now being made, and that I'll eventually get one is is a very comforting thought for this Camaro guy.
Also seeing one at my local dealer (demo unit), and seeing one on a transport on the freeway tells me the wait is much shorter than the mind-set of never we were left with in 2003.

Enjoy other aspects of your life and this short time period of waiting will be over before you know it.
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Old 05-02-2009, 12:39 AM   #68
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Oughtta get on the SOLD orders first it would seem...
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Old 05-02-2009, 02:32 AM   #69
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They painted the roses red, they painted the roses red.....

They Painted the Roses red!!!!

and what did she say:

"Off with their heads!!!!!!"

Ah, like what was said earlier... Take good news and turn it to crap.

For the younger set, the above was from Alice in Wonderland when the Queen's court painted the roses.

For us old Geezers. Even though we are getting old. Seems like Patience has gone the way of the Doo-Doo Bird!
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Old 05-02-2009, 03:31 AM   #70
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Wow, you guys are really upset. You've got to realize a car isn't actually sold until the keys are in the owner's hands! You could walk into a dealership right now and throw down $38,000 cash for a Camaro. Its still not sold until you've got the keys. There are 614 lucky few that are now driving their new Camaro. This is just the very beginning of Camaro production, give it time for the the holes in the distribution chain to fill up with cars. Besides, there is no way for us to know how many of those unsold cars are actual preorder cars that are in transit or right outside the factory or even sitting at a dealership waiting on the customer to finalize the sale and pick it up. With 15,000 preorders GM will definitely be trying to put their new keyfobs in customer's hands but it will take time.

As for the upset about the Avis cars, I can see why they are getting cars early, but I also really understand how it can make you guys with preorders pretty upset. But remember, 15,000 buyers isn't going to . The Avis thing is pure genius marketing! Look at it this way: With all the preorders, it's going to be a while before you can walk into any Chevy dealership and sit in a Camaro. It will be longer still before you can actually test drive one, dealers tend to act silly and get real stingy with test drives on new model cars when they are well hyped. So now, people have the opportunity- on their own dime- to have an unsupervised test drive for as long as they want (or can afford).

A few months into the ownership of your new Camaro and the extra wait won't seem like such a big deal.
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Old 05-02-2009, 03:58 AM   #71
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True! They are having a big Camaro parade in Houston like they did in Dallas a week ago. I called one of the dealers today and he said after the event I could come down and bascially buy or bid on their two cars, so that is correct. The couple cars each dealer gets seem to go right up for sale and will not sit there for folks to come in and look at or test drive.
If you want to pick out one of those parade cars now, they are on the back lot at Lone Star Chevy and have been there a few weeks. There's about 50 of them sitting back there. The one showroom car they have out front has a big sold sticker on it and is locked up.
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Old 05-02-2009, 05:08 AM   #72
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Let's see...out of 614 sold units you need to take away the Avis bafoonary...what about 50 cars or so?? So 8.7% (take away the AVIS cars which are roughly 50) of April production were sold to consumers. Hmmm...wonder how many of those were pre-orders? Wonder how many of those were dealer "show room" cars that were auctioned off to the highest bidder? I think the "1 v-6 to each dealer" theory backfired on GM since they are just being used as cash cows for the dealers which doesn't count against their allotment. Seems to me the "PR" value of having a Camaro on each show room floor backfired on GM.....great intentions, poor execution of the fine details. I think the AVIS theory may backfire as well....well only if GM actually starts to fill R6P orders at a greatly increased rate. If we keep going at the current rate, there will be plenty of cars available to walk in customers and a bunch of pissed off Camaro loyalists still waiting for their cars.


**DISCLAIMER - I pre-ordered, am trying to wait patiently, and understand the huge logistical nightmare of this whole process. I look forward to getting my car.

BUT......

We got played really well to this point....Wag the Dog anyone?? Allow your loyalists unprecedented access to make them feel like a part of the process of designing THEIR car. Naturally, they will begin to create a buzz around your new product. Whip them into a frenzy with the Pre-Order program (seems Mr. Conti may have been right from the get go) so that word of mouth really gets moving throughout the community. Hmmm...why no commercials...don't need them when you have loyalists who have "pre-orders" spreading the good news all over the place and build cars for AVIS to help PR in major tourist cities to help spread the good word as well. Then hit the hardest phase....manage customer expectations while filling 15,000 pre-orders by Q3 and make cars available for dealership walk in customers.

Someone is going to get screwed.....and right now, it seems the pre-order guys are taking it in the shorts. I have a sneaky suspicion that pre-order fill rates are going to be evenly spread from start of production to end of Q3 (no large R6P production). Basically, building a small targeted percentage of R6P each month to meet the 15,000 number by end of September (roughly 2,500 pre-orders per month for 6 months). This will allow GM and dealers to have Camaro's available to "Joe Smoe" as a walk in customer. Of course this is all speculation but it sure does sound damn good.

I am REALLY REALLLY hoping this is not the case.
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R6P folks have waited for long enough GM!!! Build early orders before any new dealer orders regardless of allocation. Stop treating your most loyal customers so unfairly!!!
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Old 05-02-2009, 05:47 AM   #73
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I was told by my dealer back in March that my 2 SS/RS was in transit. To this day he cannot not tell me anything else and he still hasn't received an invoice. Can any tell me what the event in June in Carlisle, PA is and exactly where it is? I'll be home in June and hopefully my car will have been delivered by then.

2 SS/RS Black/Black Auto Grnd Efcts

In Transit


-----------------------------------------------------------------------
1100 = Preliminary Order: 10/13/2008
2000 = Accepted By GM:
2500 = Preferenced:
3000 = Accepted By Production Control:
3100 = Sequenced:
3300 = Scheduled For Production:
3400 = Broadcast:
3800 = Produced: 2/3/09
4150 = Invoiced:
4200 = Shipped: 3/13/09
5000 = Delivered To Dealer:
6000 = Delivered To Customer:
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Old 05-02-2009, 06:52 AM   #74
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Those numbers are great news!

It's been SEVEN years since the Camaro/Firebird were able to be purchased new. What an awesome year this is.

The fact that they're now being made, and that I'll eventually get one is is a very comforting thought for this Camaro guy.
Also seeing one at my local dealer (demo unit), and seeing one on a transport on the freeway tells me the wait is much shorter than the mind-set of never we were left with in 2003.

Enjoy other aspects of your life and this short time period of waiting will be over before you know it.
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Old 05-02-2009, 07:43 AM   #75
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everybody chill.count to 10 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 20 dam i lost count take a deep breath breath whatever.7000 x 35000 =245000000 do you all really think they'll make us all wait when they're in the financial pickle they're in i don't think so .they're gonna flood americas highways all at once.watch philadelphia camaro is as american as apple pie
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