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Old 03-18-2012, 08:13 PM   #1
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Gains w/ long tubes after blower

I need to see proof of gains from long tubes.
I want to see a car supercharged then only headers added and tune tweaked. No pulley swaps allowed. No other mods allowed. Dyno or time slip is fine.
This can be ls3 l99 or lsa.
I've seen proof locally of maybe no gain to 10 to 15 whp tops. That's a hard pill to swallow for 1k. I could do some Jba test pipes and rock that cheap.
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-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

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Old 03-18-2012, 08:15 PM   #2
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Don't throw a stock lsa out there and then show tune plus headers...that's bogus. You can show me a tuned lsa then tuned with long tubes though.

I'm being open minded here...I understand the gains n/a or with heads and cam.
My last thread resembling this never came to a conclusion. So this time I'm more specific and asking for examples, dyno or time slip.
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2014 GMC CC Z71, 2009 C6 vette (57x/53x at the wheel and less than 3300lbs)
2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

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Old 03-18-2012, 10:03 PM   #3
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I think the fi section guy might have more input
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:13 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grocerygetter View Post
I need to see proof of gains from long tubes.
I want to see a car supercharged then only headers added and tune tweaked. No pulley swaps allowed. No other mods allowed. Dyno or time slip is fine.
This can be ls3 l99 or lsa.
I've seen proof locally of maybe no gain to 10 to 15 whp tops. That's a hard pill to swallow for 1k. I could do some Jba test pipes and rock that cheap.
So you wanna spend the 9k+ for a supercharger and them just put some junk pipe underneath the car?

N/A cars alone are making 15 to 30 rwhp with good headers and a tuning. Plus a good header will increase your flow and lower your boost.

Seems like a no brainer to me
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:27 PM   #5
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I don't have a blower on my Camaro and I don't have a dynograph to show, as i had it on my G8, but gave it with the car when it left. I had a procharged G8 and it was putting down lower 440rwhp prior to headers. I added Kooks LT headers only and a retune and it only bumped about 10rwhp, which could have been accounted for from other factors like fuel, weather, etc. Not enough to justify the expense, in my opinion. I can also tell you that I recently spoke directly with Lingenfelter and the gentleman told me there is really little benefit to adding headers on our car if we have a blower, outside of sound preference. I'm no expert, but these are two references to consider. I currently have headers and plan on getting a blower down the road. Of course I'll keep the headers on, unless I go for a turbo setup instead, but I do love the sound of it.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:49 PM   #6
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What he is talking about on the g8 is right. Is not a no-brainer...it's a brainer. Ls3/a manifolds don't flow bad. But when u factor in boost...things change a bit. New things to consider.
I know there are going to be some vendors slam me...but I think this forum needs to hear this kind of thing and just not from someone selling someone something.
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Old 03-18-2012, 10:50 PM   #7
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Lingenfelter was in fact one of the sources I heard it from...second hand...but via a very good friend.
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2014 GMC CC Z71, 2009 C6 vette (57x/53x at the wheel and less than 3300lbs)
2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

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Old 03-18-2012, 11:01 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by owensmat View Post
I don't have a blower on my Camaro and I don't have a dynograph to show, as i had it on my G8, but gave it with the car when it left. I had a procharged G8 and it was putting down lower 440rwhp prior to headers. I added Kooks LT headers only and a retune and it only bumped about 10rwhp, which could have been accounted for from other factors like fuel, weather, etc. Not enough to justify the expense, in my opinion. I can also tell you that I recently spoke directly with Lingenfelter and the gentleman told me there is really little benefit to adding headers on our car if we have a blower, outside of sound preference. I'm no expert, but these are two references to consider. I currently have headers and plan on getting a blower down the road. Of course I'll keep the headers on, unless I go for a turbo setup instead, but I do love the sound of it.
so what were you running before the headers. that would be nuts to run stock cats on a FI setup.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:01 PM   #9
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Very few do what I did...buy the car and the first performance mod is a blower...for those that build piece by piece like I was doing with my other car, many will have long tubes. If you are after the nth degree of horsepower and damn the cost...then yes, go long tubes. I'm just looking at it from the bang for your buck side.
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2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

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Old 03-18-2012, 11:02 PM   #10
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2014 GMC CC Z71, 2009 C6 vette (57x/53x at the wheel and less than 3300lbs)
2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

Thanks to:
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rhino@ Gwatney Chevrolet/GPI Jacksonville AR
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:09 PM   #11
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My first mod was a Maggie with Edelbrock shortys through stock cats and an SLP 2.75" Hushmouth exhaust and a Roto-Fab CAI. I was putting down 529 rwhp - 478 rwtq on 5.5 lbs boost. I then went with a cam setup, 2.75 pulley (3.5lbs more boost), bigger injectors and fuel pump and upgraded exhaust and gained over 100 rwhp and rwtq.

I didn't want to go over 10lbs boost and by adding the LT's it kept my boost level below 10 and made nice power.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:33 PM   #12
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Ok...but you could pulley it and get the same gain with the headers you had before in tact.
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2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

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Old 03-18-2012, 11:40 PM   #13
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Ok...but you could pulley it and get the same gain with the headers you had before in tact.
I was told that if I were to have used the shorty exhaust setup I would've gone over the 10lb mark and struggled to put down 605whp
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:46 PM   #14
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Lt's allow the motor to work more efficiently, that being said one can obtain the desired hp by other means but its usually means higher boost which can stress the motor, bigger cam which affects the drivability, etc....your exhaust is only as good as the smallest pipe.
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Old 03-18-2012, 11:56 PM   #15
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I've heard the same thing you were told...I'm just looking for the proof. Seeing/witnessing is believing.
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-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

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Old 03-19-2012, 12:05 AM   #16
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Us GN guys can have hard heads when believing. I think it comes from looking at the GN setup and having to throw everything we know about hotrodding out the window to make these v6's run right.
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Old 03-19-2012, 02:24 AM   #17
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Headers usually net tvs2300 setups 30-40rwhp more.
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Old 03-19-2012, 03:06 AM   #18
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Headers usually net tvs2300 setups 30-40rwhp more.
I think he wants some proof and not just someone saying they do.
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Old 03-19-2012, 05:53 AM   #19
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Well...I thought about the FI section...but by definition ... This is adding headers.
Yah, axis is right. No offense intended, but see first post. 'they' can 'say' whatever...I want to see proof and share it with everyone on the forum.
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2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

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Old 03-19-2012, 05:53 AM   #20
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If a vendor wants to send me some for free, I'll do before after dynos myself.

I'm36, I've had a few fun cars and like my GN brethren above said, I take some convincing. I'm not trying to offend anyone or any vendor. I'm just trying to see some proof. If the proof is there, undeniably, I'm on board. My gut instinct is that the gains may be there, but they are going to be insignificant and the general consensus is going to be efficiency and that you have to pulley the car to get the boost level back.
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2014 GMC CC Z71, 2009 C6 vette (57x/53x at the wheel and less than 3300lbs)
2010 Camaro 2ss/rs---SOLD 4/15/14
-654whp with a few cosmetic things, Pfadt suspension, Vortech, CircleD, GPI ss3 vvt bump stick, gears, stuff in between,18" TSW N'rings for drag duty, 20" Forgestar F14s for street.

Thanks to:
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:14 AM   #21
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My understanding is that less exhaust back pressure will actually lower the amount of boost the blower is making. So, if your car gains only 10hp with headers, it's doing it with less boost. If you can swap pulleys to make up for the loss, you'll see more then 10hp without going nuts with boost.
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Old 03-19-2012, 06:40 AM   #22
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jenetty and maryland speed are the only 2 people i know who actually did some lt testing....check and see if you can find ted,s test #,s also brandon was more recent with some kook headers..
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:34 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grocerygetter View Post
I need to see proof of gains from long tubes.
I want to see a car supercharged then only headers added and tune tweaked. No pulley swaps allowed. No other mods allowed. Dyno or time slip is fine.
This can be ls3 l99 or lsa.
I've seen proof locally of maybe no gain to 10 to 15 whp tops. That's a hard pill to swallow for 1k. I could do some Jba test pipes and rock that cheap.
You could make TONS of HP and run some of the fastest times like Padre with his setup.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=jba%2A&page=2
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:46 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by grocerygetter View Post
I need to see proof of gains from long tubes.
I want to see a car supercharged then only headers added and tune tweaked. No pulley swaps allowed. No other mods allowed. Dyno or time slip is fine.
This can be ls3 l99 or lsa.
I've seen proof locally of maybe no gain to 10 to 15 whp tops. That's a hard pill to swallow for 1k. I could do some Jba test pipes and rock that cheap.
We ran this test many many times, the thing you have to keep in mind is this.

Once a Blower is installed and a Pulley is selected the blower set up Dictates Power Production X Blower Speed Moves X Air which can only Make a Maximum of X Power.

Boost is a Product of Restriction, Exhaust manifolds and Factory Cats are part of the restriction.

Install Headers and Highflows and Your Boost Pressure Drops 1 PSI but gains 10 RWHP.

What this does is Leaves More room for More Air and Fuel without running in to Detonation, Providing Tuning is Correct of coarse.

Now you can pulley down and gain back the 1 PSI boost you lost with Headers and Realize a 35-45 RWHP Gain with headers and Pulley combo all still on the Same Octane.

Ted.
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Old 03-19-2012, 08:51 AM   #25
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Also, you don't have to spend $1k on headers. You can pick up a set of OBX or something similar with off-road cats for right around $500. For that kind of money even 10 rwhp isn't too bad.

For $950 you can get some KOOKS that are ceramic coated.

I haven't done much research on FI since I don't ever plan to spend that kind of money but from my understanding the more you can get the exhaust to flow out of the car the better it will be.
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