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Old 03-23-2012, 09:57 PM   #1
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FBODFATHER's answers

I have noticed something about Fbodfather and his answers. While I know everything on the ZL1 is pretty tight lipped and understand why yet very frustration. Back on track, I have noticed that all the rumors that come out he is very quick to let us know they are not true. So Im wondering if we just keep starting rumors, working from a list engine, cpu, brake, cooling, wiring, shipping....... as he says no to each on we get a better picture of what is actually wrong!! While he doesnt divulge what was the hold up we still figure it out.

Sorry Im bored, tired sore and about 6 beers into the night right now it all makes since.

Patrick
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:02 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Pgoldston View Post
I have noticed something about Fbodfather and his answers. While I know everything on the ZL1 is pretty tight lipped and understand why yet very frustration. Back on track, I have noticed that all the rumors that come out he is very quick to let us know they are not true. So Im wondering if we just keep starting rumors, working from a list engine, cpu, brake, cooling, wiring, shipping....... as he says no to each on we get a better picture of what is actually wrong!! While he doesnt divulge what was the hold up we still figure it out.

Sorry Im bored, tired sore and about 6 beers into the night right now it all makes since.

Patrick
6 beer! awesome, I lost count after more than 6 or 7 or 8
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:06 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Pgoldston View Post
I have noticed something about Fbodfather and his answers. While I know everything on the ZL1 is pretty tight lipped and understand why yet very frustration. Back on track, I have noticed that all the rumors that come out he is very quick to let us know they are not true. So Im wondering if we just keep starting rumors, working from a list engine, cpu, brake, cooling, wiring, shipping....... as he says no to each on we get a better picture of what is actually wrong!! While he doesnt divulge what was the hold up we still figure it out.

Sorry Im bored, tired sore and about 6 beers into the night right now it all makes since.

Patrick

Notice he didn't come back and say that GM was not tweaking the motor to 650hp to go against the Mustang GT500 did he?
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:10 PM   #4
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Notice he didn't come back and say that GM was not tweaking the motor to 650hp to go against the Mustang GT500 did he?
Lol, would be nice, but no way would they redo all the engines in the cars that are already built. Besides, I don't think they'll need 650HP to compete with the GT500. They had to know that Ford would top whatever HP they put out since the ZL1 would be out first. I feel that they gave us the most usable HP. Even if the GT500 is faster I still like the styling and technology of the ZL1.
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Old 03-23-2012, 10:21 PM   #5
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Notice he didn't come back and say that GM was not tweaking the motor to 650hp to go against the Mustang GT500 did he?
I noticed that too.......... but I was just ignoring it because sometimes when you say something affirmative like that, the opposite happens. So.... I am not mentioning it! (but I hope you are right).
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Old 03-24-2012, 06:51 AM   #6
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I don't think the rest of the car could handle the higher HP without breaking. I'm sure the stress analysis is on the concervative side, but I bet they are nudging the edge of the cars ability.
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:11 AM   #7
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I don't think the rest of the car could handle the higher HP without breaking. I'm sure the stress analysis is on the concervative side, but I bet they are nudging the edge of the cars ability.
No way. The regular SS can take WAY more than the factory provides. With all the upgrades this supposed ZL1 has... it can take a 70 HP bump no sweat.

You can gain that on an SS with the full bolt ons and a tune and the car is perfectly happy. Stuff doesnt start breaking until you get insane... like doubling the HP to the 600+ mark to the tires... its easily done but you better have deep pockets.

My baseline was ~350 and I at 415 to the tires right now... so 65 rwhp bump and I havent broken anything (because of the power) and the car feels perfect.

They could pulley down the sc, retune the car and get 620/630 no problem. They would just have to reevaluate the longevity of the car. Things aren't simple in big business. Sure, you or I can soop up our cars no problem and if it only lasts 10,000 miles, thats on us... GM has to build these cars to last.

I suggest eveyone who had to be first just sit back and wait out the storm. I am sure the cars will get delivered soon enough. After the HP nut punt GM took, I HOPE that they wont let the GT500 hit the streets first.
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:52 AM   #8
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6 beer! awesome, I lost count after more than 6 or 7 or 8
That was the start of the night and they were big beers, I have a 6 tap keggerator I built in the kitchen, so I always have 6 kegs on tap for my personal use. So a beer could be a dinner 8 ounce or a Friday night 20 ounce. Just depends on how I am feeling.

I did notice that Fbod never discredited that the engine was gettting retuned or worked for more power. If he never answers this thread it will lead me mentally down a road until it is delivered.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:15 AM   #9
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No way. The regular SS can take WAY more than the factory provides. With all the upgrades this supposed ZL1 has... it can take a 70 HP bump no sweat.

You can gain that on an SS with the full bolt ons and a tune and the car is perfectly happy. Stuff doesnt start breaking until you get insane... like doubling the HP to the 600+ mark to the tires... its easily done but you better have deep pockets.

My baseline was ~350 and I at 415 to the tires right now... so 65 rwhp bump and I havent broken anything (because of the power) and the car feels perfect.

They could pulley down the sc, retune the car and get 620/630 no problem. They would just have to reevaluate the longevity of the car. Things aren't simple in big business. Sure, you or I can soop up our cars no problem and if it only lasts 10,000 miles, thats on us... GM has to build these cars to last.

I suggest eveyone who had to be first just sit back and wait out the storm. I am sure the cars will get delivered soon enough. After the HP nut punt GM took, I HOPE that they wont let the GT500 hit the streets first.
Exactly. Yes they could tweak the engine, but you'd sacrifice durability. The ZL1 engine is the perfect balance of power and longevity. There's a reason that the ZL1's warranty INCLUDES tracking the car. GM stated that you could blow the motor at the track and they would replace it.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:17 AM   #10
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GM stated that you could blow the motor at the track and they would replace it.
Can't WAIT to see this put to the test...
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:22 AM   #11
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Dear Fbodfather.......

Did they scrap the whole engine in the ZL1 and go with a TT 4 Cylinder?
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:46 AM   #12
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I still want to know why forged pistons where not used in the engine
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:47 AM   #13
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Shame on you for treating such serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor!

My guess is it is possible the engine has previously been certified in various configurations prior to this (over the last entire year of testing) and new certifications aren't an obvious necessity. Especially "if" they had ever intended to tweak it for 2013 or 2014 prior to Gen6. They would have done that while in testing phases is my guess. Just my .02.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:49 AM   #14
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I still want to know why forged pistons where not used in the engine

No need for THEIR objectives.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:02 AM   #15
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No need for THEIR objectives.
So use a piston that is close to its limit, to limit the end user?
I know the cost of the piston is cheaper but when looking at this car along with the warranty work that will come in on it why use a piston that is "weak". I would figure using a stronger piston would negate the cost in the long run, especially since they did say they would warranty track day issues (if that really happens). Maybe it will hold up much better than what I anticipate it, I hope so
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:23 AM   #16
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I don't think there are any issues with the ZL1. The vehicle will do everything GM has engineered it to do. However, the wait is due to a release for late Spring, early Summer to coincide with the release of the 2013 Mustang.

Just my 2 cents.....
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:37 AM   #17
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No way. The regular SS can take WAY more than the factory provides. With all the upgrades this supposed ZL1 has... it can take a 70 HP bump no sweat.

You can gain that on an SS with the full bolt ons and a tune and the car is perfectly happy. Stuff doesnt start breaking until you get insane... like doubling the HP to the 600+ mark to the tires... its easily done but you better have deep pockets.

My baseline was ~350 and I at 415 to the tires right now... so 65 rwhp bump and I havent broken anything (because of the power) and the car feels perfect.

They could pulley down the sc, retune the car and get 620/630 no problem. They would just have to reevaluate the longevity of the car. Things aren't simple in big business. Sure, you or I can soop up our cars no problem and if it only lasts 10,000 miles, thats on us... GM has to build these cars to last.

I suggest eveyone who had to be first just sit back and wait out the storm. I am sure the cars will get delivered soon enough. After the HP nut punt GM took, I HOPE that they wont let the GT500 hit the streets first.

You think I'm insane??!!
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:04 AM   #18
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So use a piston that is close to its limit, to limit the end user?
I know the cost of the piston is cheaper but when looking at this car along with the warranty work that will come in on it why use a piston that is "weak". I would figure using a stronger piston would negate the cost in the long run, especially since they did say they would warranty track day issues (if that really happens). Maybe it will hold up much better than what I anticipate it, I hope so

Are stock CTS-V's having piston problems?

No.

Guess they picked the right ones.

Read up on the development of the CTS-V. That will detail much more about the component selections for the LSA.

If someone is going to mod an engine way above it's stock hp anyway... it's going to need to come apart for a full custom build anyway. Really doesn't matter what stock parts it has, those were intended for the stock hp level.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:21 AM   #19
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Actually the CTS-V can only raise the boost a few psi before getting into the danger area. When you look at the Ford counterpart which does use forged pistons you can raise the boost alot more. Case and point my 2003 Cobra has never had the valve cover off of it and it is making more than 650hp. Several people have gone alot further than me. I love the ZL1 styling, the suspension, tech that is in the car I just feel that the internals should have matched the rest of level ten in the car. This is not to start a ford chevy war or anything, its the basics of any engine. If they use a different style of hyper piston great.

Yes the Hyper piston has some advantages in the expansion rate is less than forged pistons and can run a tighter clearance but they are not as tough as forged pistons. Just my personal opinion.


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Are stock CTS-V's having piston problems?

No.

Guess they picked the right ones.

Read up on the development of the CTS-V. That will detail much more about the component selections for the LSA.

If someone is going to mod an engine way above it's stock hp anyway... it's going to need to come apart for a full custom build anyway. Really doesn't matter what stock parts it has, those were intended for the stock hp level.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:26 AM   #20
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Sorry Im bored, tired sore and about 6 beers into the night right now it all makes since.
Patrick...are you feeling better, this AM?

Hope so...
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:11 AM   #21
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Yeah I feel perfect right now, still sore been working on to many projects all at once. Just finished up a supercharger 4runner, trying to finish my turbo mustang and fixing frames on a couple mini bikes
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:18 AM   #22
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I doubt the Lsa will have any more power. They would do a ls9 because it has the internals to handle more boost and have a factory warranty. Lsa can handle more power but at around the 700 p mark they can go boom.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:22 PM   #23
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pretty shure that the hold is due to electronics.. this system is new & all the rest has been proven on other cars --cts-v, vette-- they ain't "boosting" the engine they planned it that way 580hp ..if they wanted to tune it for a small boost i'm shure it would had been done rapidely and cars would be rolling out..

gm won't tell they ought us nothing the cars are theirs so..

imagine if we would be a ferrari forum and we 'd be waiting on 599's or ? for years --we all know the waiting list is long over there--and then they stop production for some god knows what..ferrari will never tell us what was the problenm even if we spit 200k's for their rides...

i just sympatize with you guys that waits for the ZL-1. like fbod say be patient..

when you'll turn that key who'll soon forget all about it as soon as the smokes cleared!!!

>>meaning doing a nice burn out getting out from the dealer..LOL<<<
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:43 PM   #24
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1. Don't forget that the engine has piston cooling nozzles which effectively allows the hypers to perform well into forged territory.
2. The drivetrain in the ZL1 will handle in excess of 650 hp. No problem. My guess is 800 hp easy.
3. They already tweaked the ZL1 from 565 to 580 since introduction, so another 20 hp may be just as easy, and there would really be no reason to even tell anybody or re-certify anything. Manufacturers must be allowed a + or - on their power figures. And, as proven in the past, I think they can report up or down the scale simply by chaging at what rpm they quote the hp numbers.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:47 PM   #25
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I have been patiently waiting for my ZL1 too, as have many friends and customers.

There is absolutely no reason why the ZL1 shouldn't be the ultimate Factory Super Car on all levels, in it's price point.
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