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Old 03-24-2012, 10:40 AM   #1
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2012 people are you worried about 2013 upgrade?

Hey guys. I was wondering if anyone is reluctant to pick up 2012 because GM always sooms to add something the next model year?

I bought a 2001 Monte Carlo SS then they released a supercharged version
Then I picked up a 2004 GTO then they released a new one with bigger brakes, more HP and a new engine!:upset:
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:53 AM   #2
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Eventually you have to jump in. lol

You can always just do it better yourself later. 99% of the time it's better than the OEM stuff anyway.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:15 AM   #3
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Then why get the 2013 if the 2014 is going to be able to fly. Be happy with what youve got. 2012 all the way.
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:55 AM   #4
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limited number of 2012's is enough reason for me to NOT worry about 2013

besides, who says 13 is a lucky number anyway
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Old 03-24-2012, 11:58 AM   #5
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here is a thought... what if the 2013 is DOWNGRADED!?!

there is a reason for the extended QC hold. Chevrolet really tried to make the ultimate Camaro with this ZL1. what if they found out it was just "to much"

a downgrade is just as possible and an upgrade for 2013 if you ask me
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:10 PM   #6
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I doubt there will be any significant changes in 2013 ZL1 other than an increase in MSRP. It will only include changes in standard SS Camaro production design....perhaps a better nav system would be my only wish.

Speculation of a higher boost LSA to repsond to Ford???....this isnt a simple "throw a pulley on it and go" proposition for GM....the engine would require complete recertification to meet Federal regs....its always possible, but I'd bet heavily against this wish of many.

If GM did decide to push 650HP to match Ford, then the ZR1 crowd would cry bullsh!t!! Marketing is a carefully planned and thought-out process....just because GM can, doesnt mean they will.
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Old 03-24-2012, 12:16 PM   #7
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Yes, realize that the Camaro isn't Chevrolets top dog.

The Corvette is.

In reality the Corvette is what is the comparison for the Shelby which is Fords top dog, so until now Chevrolet has had way higher hp than Shelby all along.

I could see boosting the ZR1 to over 650hp in response to the Shelby, but not the Camaro. I think the ZL1 does the job it was intended as a well rounded performance touring car.

I wouldn't argue if the ZL1's power was upped, just don't think its needed to beat the Shelby in performance.
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Old 03-24-2012, 07:51 PM   #8
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I doubt there will be any significant changes in 2013 ZL1 other than an increase in MSRP. It will only include changes in standard SS Camaro production design....perhaps a better nav system would be my only wish.

Speculation of a higher boost LSA to repsond to Ford???....this isnt a simple "throw a pulley on it and go" proposition for GM....the engine would require complete recertification to meet Federal regs....its always possible, but I'd bet heavily against this wish of many.

If GM did decide to push 650HP to match Ford, then the ZR1 crowd would cry bullsh!t!! Marketing is a carefully planned and thought-out process....just because GM can, doesnt mean they will.
I really see some valid comments here and agree. However...

ZL1 has the next generation MR and EPS. No other top-model GM has those yet. ZL1 was the FIRST to introduce Gen III MR and EPS integration. For me - after taking that into account after considering your thoughts, you point, while usually right on track, might be less valid. I'm surprised to see no power or motor improvements for 'Vette, but I'm, now, not sold on the fact they won't necessary completelt restrict CAMARO in light of these new systems.

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Old 03-24-2012, 08:02 PM   #9
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here is a thought... what if the 2013 is DOWNGRADED!?!

there is a reason for the extended QC hold. Chevrolet really tried to make the ultimate Camaro with this ZL1. what if they found out it was just "to much"

a downgrade is just as possible and an upgrade for 2013 if you ask me



....ssshhhhhhhh!!!!!!!! you weren't s'posed to tell anyone............
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:39 PM   #10
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I really don't see how people can say that because the zr1 is... I don't think they are the same market at all. I have never had the urge to buy a vette. But when I was at the Texas mile today I saw many ss camaros putting up big times. Even at 580 hp people will have 650 hp zl1 within a month of delivery. So why not do it from the factory. If it can be done then it should be! I don't think there is much to getting the fed cert. remember they retuned all the 6.7L ford diesels so that they made 800 Ft/lbs of torque.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:50 PM   #11
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I really don't see how people can say that because the zr1 is... I don't think they are the same market at all. I have never had the urge to buy a vette. But when I was at the Texas mile today I saw many ss camaros putting up big times. Even at 580 hp people will have 650 hp zl1 within a month of delivery. So why not do it from the factory. If it can be done then it should be! I don't think there is much to getting the fed cert. remember they retuned all the 6.7L ford diesels so that they made 800 Ft/lbs of torque.


Not exactly what you're referring to - but let me make a few comments....

Ford has one performance car -- the Mustang.

Chevrolet has two.

...meaning that there is substantially more 'investment' - not only in dollars, but manpower, supplier base, bricks and mortar, etc......


Engines are not 'plug and play' - remember that there are all sorts of algorithms that need to be developed and validated.....on top of that there is the ever-increasing CAFE standards to deal with.......
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:52 PM   #12
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Yes, realize that the Camaro isn't Chevrolets top dog.

The Corvette is.

In reality the Corvette is what is the comparison for the Shelby which is Fords top dog, so until now Chevrolet has had way higher hp than Shelby all along.

I could see boosting the ZR1 to over 650hp in response to the Shelby, but not the Camaro. I think the ZL1 does the job it was intended as a well rounded performance touring car.

I wouldn't argue if the ZL1's power was upped, just don't think its needed to beat the Shelby in performance.
IMHO the Corvette will only be a direct comparison to the GT500 when it grows 2 more seats.
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Old 03-24-2012, 08:54 PM   #13
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:06 PM   #14
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Yes, realize that the Camaro isn't Chevrolets top dog.

The Corvette is.

In reality the Corvette is what is the comparison for the Shelby which is Fords top dog, so until now Chevrolet has had way higher hp than Shelby all along.

I could see boosting the ZR1 to over 650hp in response to the Shelby, but not the Camaro. I think the ZL1 does the job it was intended as a well rounded performance touring car.

I wouldn't argue if the ZL1's power was upped, just don't think its needed to beat the Shelby in performance.
You are correct. The Camaro was made to battle the Mustangs. The Shelby (Mustang) was created to battle with the Corvette. Even the pricing reflected that.
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:53 PM   #15
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IMHO the Corvette will only be a direct comparison to the GT500 when it grows 2 more seats.
If the Shelby isn't Fords top dog what is?

I don't follow your reasoning. Its not Chevy's fault ford left the back seat in their top performance car.

Unless you are suggesting we should compare the Corvette to the Boss, as it doesn't have a back seat and therefore it is Fords competition for the vette?.

In that case, bothe the base Corvette and the ZL1 beat it in hp and performance so......
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Old 03-24-2012, 09:54 PM   #16
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With all due respect that is the silliest question I have ever heard....

Everyone knows the world is ending in December 2012, so you might as well jump on it now!
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:09 PM   #17
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With all due respect that is the silliest question I have ever heard....

Everyone knows the world is ending in December 2012, so you might as well jump on it now!
POTD!!!
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:13 PM   #18
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According to Chevrolet’s web site, the following cars Competitive Comparison goes as follows:

Competitive Comparison for the 2012 ZL1 is (GT500, BMW M3)

Competitive Comparison for the 2012 Corvette Coupe is (Porsche 911, BMW Z4, Porsche Cayman)

Competitive Comparison for the 2012 Corvette Grand sport (Porsche 911, Audi R8)
Competitive Comparison for the 2012 Corvette Z06 (Nissan GT-R, Porsche 911 GT3, Porsche 911 Turbo)

Competitive Comparison for the 2012 Corvette ZR1 (Lamborghini Gallardo LP560, Ferrari 599, Porsche 911 GT3 RS)

So if there considering the ZL1’s Competitive Comparison the GT500…….. What’s more to be said…? I don’t see some want to pull the Corvette card when talking about the GT500…. When according to GM it’s not even their Competitive Comparison…. For years it’s always been Camaro and Mustang…. Now some just can’t stomach the fact of the prowess of the 13 Shelby…. I’m OK with the ZL1 being behind HP this go around, I can afford to buy either, my choice was made on my personal preference alone as I’m sure most ZL1 buyers did… and for the same reason most GT500 buyers will. I look at it this way…. If it takes you 70 more HP to beat me, then cool… to me that’s a hollow victory and not really worth bragging about…. Ford had no choice but to put 650, because if they hadn’t, can you imagine how it would have been… sure you can…. I’m just saying…
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:13 PM   #19
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Lets cut to the chase.

The ZL1 is the GT500's direct competitor, not the corvette. We will have to swallow the pill once the '13 GT500 hit the streets (it might not be that bad, I hope). Its a little bit of the 'bs clause' (pardon my french) that when the going gets rough we pull out the "corvette top dog" card.

Look at another thing as well. Corvette doesn't have an easy job as of late, as its competitors have been chomping down on some bowtie butt as of late (GT-R, 911 Turbo, even Carrera S has cajones this year).

Back on point: I am hoping for a good show with the zl1 against its rivals this year, and any sweetener added for '14 I will gladly take (running!)!
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:21 PM   #20
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Lets cut to the chase.

The ZL1 is the GT500's direct competitor, not the corvette. We will have to swallow the pill once the '13 GT500 hit the streets (it might not be that bad, I hope). Its a little bit of the 'bs clause' (pardon my french) that when the going gets rough we pull out the "corvette top dog" card.

Look at another thing as well. Corvette doesn't have an easy job as of late, as its competitors have been chomping down on some bowtie butt as of late (GT-R, 911 Turbo, even Carrera S has cajones this year).

Back on point: I am hoping for a good show with the zl1 against its rivals this year, and any sweetener added for '14 I will gladly take (running!)!
Respectfully disagree.
Doesn't the ZL1 eat the 911 for lunch?, so the Corvette would have no problem there...
You can SAY the GT500 is a Camaro competitor, but that's just because Ford doesn't have a car to compare to a Corvette.
So you see, my friend, the argument goes both ways....
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:24 PM   #21
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^zl1 ate a 911?? Whare????.....whuen?? I must have missed that issue...
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:33 PM   #22
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Eventually you have to jump in. lol

You can always just do it better yourself later. 99% of the time it's better than the OEM stuff anyway.
So, taking the OP's response into account as you commented, if I read you correclty you suggest you can just do it yourself and make the ZL1 99% better than the OEM equipment as used on the ZL1 if you use SEM upgrades? Could you detail what plans you suggest to accomplish this goal?
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:34 PM   #23
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I just bought a 2012 and thought about this, but decided GM wouldn't do major changes to this model with a new Camaro coming out in 14 or 15.....Hey, that's about time when I would start wanting a new car.
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Old 03-24-2012, 10:37 PM   #24
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I am not. there will not be time between model years IMO to do anything significant. change over happens in june and they have not delivered any 2012's yet. they already anounced the vert so they are working on that.

It seem like people forget ford has had a performance advantage on the camaro since 2011 and it has not lead to more sales. If the cars sells well and does what it needs too. why change.

a 2002 SS would walk all over a 2002 GT mustang and camaro killed the brand due to laggin sales.

I am more worried will I actually get a 2012? I am not that excited about recieving a 2012 at MSRP in JUNE. I am more worried about how bad that sucks than anything chevy may do.
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Old 03-25-2012, 12:16 AM   #25
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If the Shelby isn't Fords top dog what is?

I don't follow your reasoning. Its not Chevy's fault ford left the back seat in their top performance car.

Unless you are suggesting we should compare the Corvette to the Boss, as it doesn't have a back seat and therefore it is Fords competition for the vette?.

In that case, bothe the base Corvette and the ZL1 beat it in hp and performance so......
So just because Ford's top dog is the GT500 it automatically has to compete with the top dog of Chevy? Or it has to compete with the 'top dog' of all American auto makers? Cause it's certainly not direct competition for all auto makers 'top dogs'. Ford has no direct competitor to the Corvette, they used to have something close, it was called a GT, a 2 seater sports car, that they couldn't even sell for more than a few years.

The pony wars, at least to me, have always been about the different models of the Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger. But maybe I'm just too hung up on the fact that the vette is and always has been a 2 seater for all models. It's not a stripped down version of a 2+2 like the Boss. It's been designed for 2 passengers from the start. I feel that the Corvette and other 2 seaters appeal to different people than the ZL1 and GT500. Personally, I want 1 car that I can take my wife and son to auto shows in, which I can't accomplish with a vette and is the reason that I'm going with a ZL1.
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