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Old 03-25-2012, 05:39 PM   #1
AZ_Gixxer1000
 
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Lightbulb ARE YOU A ZL1 SNOB?

While I don’t have many posts on here, I am here quite a bit reading and watching.

As you might have guessed from my user name I am a motorcycle guy first and foremost. But I am also one of the 480 of us who have a ZL1 build and waiting. I’m #310

A replacement for my 2010 SS/RS which is already gone to its new home :(

But I wonder am I now a ZL1 snob? In the motorcycle world it is VERY click-ie. The sport bike guys stay with the sport bike guys; Harley riders hate everyone but their own, metric cruisers secretly want to be Harley riders, GoldWing riders are a different bread altogether with their cup holders, reverse gears and cigarette liters! Dirt bikers are different than quad riders and so on.



But within each one of these different groups are a seemingly endless subculture of even more separation.

Dirt bikers who ride motocross don’t like the dirt bikers that ride desert or trail ride. The trail riders don’t like the supercross riders and so on.

Sport bike riders who road race don’t like stunters, stunters don’t like the Hayabusa crowd, and those riders don’t like this one and so on, and so on. :fighting0040:




All of that is preference to riding style, I get it. But even within these subcultures the bike you chose to ride is a factor. If you ride a GSXR1000 that is like driving a ZL1. It is a top of the line high performance machine. (Regardless if those reading this like the GSXR1000 or not, it cannot be denied it is a performance leader. As is the ZX10, CBR1000 or R1 respectively

SO! What does this have to do with cars and the ZL1?

While all of the above mentioned bikes are top performance machines from there respective manufactures. Unlike cars, there are not really any different trim packaged or levels to the bikes. It basically goes like this; here is the bike for this year. You can pick between two, maybe three colors. That’s is. Not to omit the fact that there are sub-categories such and engine size etc, but that is different point.

How this relates to cars is:

A base model Camaro. A strip down basic nothing. Steel rims with a v-6 auto. The kind you would rent from Dollar rent-a-car. As a ZL1 owner do you look down on that car/driver? Maybe even just a little bit in the back of your mind? What about the SS series? Now that the ZL1 is top dog… why not? Why wouldn’t you?

It is not being rude. Let me explain. In motorcycles if you ride a GSXR1000 or R1 etc. you own one of the best of the best. If a guy pulls up on a 250 Ninja (equal to a base/base Camaro) it is still a sport bike. So you are still friendly (see original subculture dynamic above) but you kind of look at his bike like. “Dude… WHY?” He is a nice enough guy etc. just with a less than desirable bike compared to yours.

But then a group of Harleys or some metric cruisers show up and you and the 250 Ninja guy are like long lost brothers! The bond of your sport bike group is greater than that of your subculture. Just as if a metric cruisers showed up and you two were the only bikes around, the umbrella of motorcycling would trump the individual subculture. Except Harleys because as previously mentioned…. They hate everybody but their own regardless. =)

I am sure like most of us while out driving we see the Gen 5 Camaro’s and look to see what it is… “Oh that’s a SS/RS” or “hey that a v-6 because of…”

I always looked for the SS cars because they are in my “group” But even now when I look I think. “Dude that SS is nothing compared to the ZL1”. That’s not to say I don’t appreciate or enjoy their car but now with a new king of the road. Have the others all moved down a notch?

Maybe this makes me sound like a jerk. I just was wondering if anyone else now looked at the SS the way they once looked at the V-6. All still Camaro but within this Camaro subculture – I believe just like in bikes – there is a prejudice. Or am I wrong and all Camaro guys love one another equally?

Your thoughts?

Disclaimer: no disrespect intended to any motorcycle group or subculture. Or to V-6 owners
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Old 03-25-2012, 05:59 PM   #2
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I can only speak for myself. Since being here at c5 I have gained the upmost respect for all members, but the ones that are top of my list are the v6 modders. Some of these guys would love to have an ss, or z, but economicly the v6 made more sense. Then they save,scrape, and do what they can to do mods one at a time. I really respect their passion for thier vehicles, and most are bad ass. I am lucky to afford a Z, but the true heart and soul of an enthusiest, are the guys I listed above, the guys that sacrafice to build these machines.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:00 PM   #3
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I believe you are correct.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:02 PM   #4
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My attention span is not long enough for a post that long ,but for me I never bought into idea of groups and hating anyone that isn't in it. I buy what I want for me and f anyone that doesn't like it. It does seem that a lot of non ZL1 people on this forum are enjoying the delay we are going through.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:04 PM   #5
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What's a ZL1?
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:04 PM   #6
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I'm kidding folks...
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:16 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_Gixxer1000 View Post
Maybe this makes me sound like a jerk. I just was wondering if anyone else now looked at the SS the way they once looked at the V-6.
Your thoughts?
Two thoughts... If a ZL1 owner looks down on me.... all they'll see at a race track is dust off my tires, smoke from the exhaust and my tailights getting really small really quickly....

Secondly, I ride a Harley and I don't hate any two wheeler riders...

Let me explain... I perfectly understand the cultures, but I don't buy into it.... I can't control what others do, only how I respond to it.... I've had guys purposely look the other way at interesctions when I pull up next to them on their scooter and me on my Ultra Classic, out of embarrasement or whatever... only to have them break into a really big grin when they finally look over and see me wave or give them a nod... I'm not an angel by any means, but why should I look down upon anyone...I lived from paycheck to paycheck and qualified for food stamps though I never got them or used any assistance like that... and that was while working as a professional fire fighter...

Enjoy what you have and allow others the same...
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:19 PM   #8
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Did you get yours from Waston or O Rielly? Back in 1986 when I tried to join the Tucson Camaro club, they didn't like that I drove a 1976 LT. There were a few that thought that just the first gen's should be allowed to be in the club. But I kept showing up to the meetings and they finally let me join. And it turned out to be the best time of my life. I made friends that are still part of my life to this day. It just goes to show you, don't jump to conclusions or judge one by what they drive. While I was in the club we had members that were into restoring and some in to racing. I am happy to say I learned from all the members. I now have restored and a couple of race Camaros that include first and second gen and hope soon a fifth gen ZL1.
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Old 03-25-2012, 06:24 PM   #9
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I think you're overthinking this.

Camaros owners normally only snob Mustang owners.

If people choose any Camaro for whatever reason, they're in the family. I enjoy seeing how proud Camaro owners are and the personalization they like to do to make their Camaro their own. I may not do the same personalization they do to my own car, but that doesn't mean I don't respect their decisions. Doesn't matter if it's an LS, LT, RS, or SS, or ZL1. I could afford the SS, so that's what I bought. But I'm a Camaro lover first. Doesn't matter the trim level to me.

And you always gotta ask yourself...even in your badass ZL1, can you REALLY afford to look down your nose at some of these personalized SS's that could smoke your ZL1? You have no idea if they're stock or not if you rolled up to a stoplight together. Just because you're driving the baddest Camaro ever built, doesn't mean that you're the baddest Camaro out on the street.
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:22 PM   #10
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I think these cultures come down to individuals. Some of these individuals are jerks, and sometimes these jerks give a bad name to these cultures. All it takes is one jerk to make an impression. I would say car cultures are no different. Lots of nice people but there are some jerks.

PS - When I was young and stupid (1987 to be exact), I had a 1987 GSX-R 1100. I did "some work" to the bike and it was a 9 second bike that had a top speed in excess of 176mph. Top of the food chain back then and still is...
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Old 03-25-2012, 07:37 PM   #11
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Top of the food chain back then and still is...


GS1100 here in bout 1981... Traded a turbocharged 78 Z1R 1000 for it....
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:10 PM   #12
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I have a 2011 Camaro SS, a 2006 Hummer H3, and a 2005 Harley Davidson Heritage Softail. NONE of those vehicles are better or worse than anything else on the road...... Just different!! I'm blessed for what I'm able to have, you should be too.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:13 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
Two thoughts... If a ZL1 owner looks down on me.... all they'll see at a race track is dust off my tires, smoke from the exhaust and my tailights getting really small really quickly....

Secondly, I ride a Harley and I don't hate any two wheeler riders...

Let me explain... I perfectly understand the cultures, but I don't buy into it.... I can't control what others do, only how I respond to it.... I've had guys purposely look the other way at interesctions when I pull up next to them on their scooter and me on my Ultra Classic, out of embarrasement or whatever... only to have them break into a really big grin when they finally look over and see me wave or give them a nod... I'm not an angel by any means, but why should I look down upon anyone...I lived from paycheck to paycheck and qualified for food stamps though I never got them or used any assistance like that... and that was while working as a professional fire fighter...

Enjoy what you have and allow others the same...
...Amen Brother.....
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:44 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_Gixxer1000 View Post
While I don’t have many posts on here, I am here quite a bit reading and watching.

As you might have guessed from my user name I am a motorcycle guy first and foremost. But I am also one of the 480 of us who have a ZL1 build and waiting. I’m #310

A replacement for my 2010 SS/RS which is already gone to its new home :(

But I wonder am I now a ZL1 snob? In the motorcycle world it is VERY click-ie. The sport bike guys stay with the sport bike guys; Harley riders hate everyone but their own, metric cruisers secretly want to be Harley riders, GoldWing riders are a different bread altogether with their cup holders, reverse gears and cigarette liters! Dirt bikers are different than quad riders and so on.



But within each one of these different groups are a seemingly endless subculture of even more separation.

Dirt bikers who ride motocross don’t like the dirt bikers that ride desert or trail ride. The trail riders don’t like the supercross riders and so on.

Sport bike riders who road race don’t like stunters, stunters don’t like the Hayabusa crowd, and those riders don’t like this one and so on, and so on. :fighting0040:




All of that is preference to riding style, I get it. But even within these subcultures the bike you chose to ride is a factor. If you ride a GSXR1000 that is like driving a ZL1. It is a top of the line high performance machine. (Regardless if those reading this like the GSXR1000 or not, it cannot be denied it is a performance leader. As is the ZX10, CBR1000 or R1 respectively

SO! What does this have to do with cars and the ZL1?

While all of the above mentioned bikes are top performance machines from there respective manufactures. Unlike cars, there are not really any different trim packaged or levels to the bikes. It basically goes like this; here is the bike for this year. You can pick between two, maybe three colors. That’s is. Not to omit the fact that there are sub-categories such and engine size etc, but that is different point.

How this relates to cars is:

A base model Camaro. A strip down basic nothing. Steel rims with a v-6 auto. The kind you would rent from Dollar rent-a-car. As a ZL1 owner do you look down on that car/driver? Maybe even just a little bit in the back of your mind? What about the SS series? Now that the ZL1 is top dog… why not? Why wouldn’t you?

It is not being rude. Let me explain. In motorcycles if you ride a GSXR1000 or R1 etc. you own one of the best of the best. If a guy pulls up on a 250 Ninja (equal to a base/base Camaro) it is still a sport bike. So you are still friendly (see original subculture dynamic above) but you kind of look at his bike like. “Dude… WHY?” He is a nice enough guy etc. just with a less than desirable bike compared to yours.

But then a group of Harleys or some metric cruisers show up and you and the 250 Ninja guy are like long lost brothers! The bond of your sport bike group is greater than that of your subculture. Just as if a metric cruisers showed up and you two were the only bikes around, the umbrella of motorcycling would trump the individual subculture. Except Harleys because as previously mentioned…. They hate everybody but their own regardless. =)

I am sure like most of us while out driving we see the Gen 5 Camaro’s and look to see what it is… “Oh that’s a SS/RS” or “hey that a v-6 because of…”

I always looked for the SS cars because they are in my “group” But even now when I look I think. “Dude that SS is nothing compared to the ZL1”. That’s not to say I don’t appreciate or enjoy their car but now with a new king of the road. Have the others all moved down a notch?

Maybe this makes me sound like a jerk. I just was wondering if anyone else now looked at the SS the way they once looked at the V-6. All still Camaro but within this Camaro subculture – I believe just like in bikes – there is a prejudice. Or am I wrong and all Camaro guys love one another equally?

Your thoughts?

Disclaimer: no disrespect intended to any motorcycle group or subculture. Or to V-6 owners
Personally,,,,,,, although outpowered and out handled by the GSXR ....My TL1000R looks and sounds so much sweeter.
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Old 03-25-2012, 08:58 PM   #15
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Rod1 has a V6 camaro that does the 1/4 in less than 12 seconds which means it will beat the King ZL1's 12.3 stock time, just sayin
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:12 PM   #16
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I'll chime in here for a bit....

As a V6 owner, I think all Camaros are cool...and maybe its cuz I'm sorta looking up to them in a way....to put it another way I have respect! I don't get jealous because this other guy owns an SS.

But I don't think all Camaro owners are cool. I can appreciate someone who takes an SS and makes it into a ZL1 killer, as much or moreso than the guy that just bought the ZL1. I also have a huge amount of respect and admiration for the guy who leave their V6 or SS stock performance-wise but makes it looks completely their own....a show stopper type of car.

To me, in the end, no matter what I think we should show an appreciation for the work the other guy has put into their vehicle...V6, SS, or ZL1. At the beginning, the V6 platform had nothing for performance mods...but now things have really come a long ways...and we still don't have remotely the kind of backing the SS does. But there are guys getting it done, and being pioneers for us.

V6 mustang owners are VERY close to pushing into the 12s N/A, and we are hoping for very low 13, or some hero run 12.99 this year because of some of the new tech that has happened over the winter months.

I love my car and what I'm making it into...I'd not trade it for an ole SS straight up.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:15 PM   #17
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I think LS's are cool. I don't look down on anyone who enjoys doing their thing as much as I enjoy doing my thing. I admire them.
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and I have met a lot of enthusiasts in all of them.
There is always someone better than you so I like to treat with respect and humility.
There are some true losers out there too, so feel free to laugh at them at will.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:30 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ_Gixxer1000 View Post
While I don’t have many posts on here, I am here quite a bit reading and watching.

As you might have guessed from my user name I am a motorcycle guy first and foremost. But I am also one of the 480 of us who have a ZL1 build and waiting. I’m #310

A replacement for my 2010 SS/RS which is already gone to its new home :(

But I wonder am I now a ZL1 snob? In the motorcycle world it is VERY click-ie. The sport bike guys stay with the sport bike guys; Harley riders hate everyone but their own, metric cruisers secretly want to be Harley riders, GoldWing riders are a different bread altogether with their cup holders, reverse gears and cigarette liters! Dirt bikers are different than quad riders and so on.



But within each one of these different groups are a seemingly endless subculture of even more separation.

Dirt bikers who ride motocross don’t like the dirt bikers that ride desert or trail ride. The trail riders don’t like the supercross riders and so on.

Sport bike riders who road race don’t like stunters, stunters don’t like the Hayabusa crowd, and those riders don’t like this one and so on, and so on. :fighting0040:




All of that is preference to riding style, I get it. But even within these subcultures the bike you chose to ride is a factor. If you ride a GSXR1000 that is like driving a ZL1. It is a top of the line high performance machine. (Regardless if those reading this like the GSXR1000 or not, it cannot be denied it is a performance leader. As is the ZX10, CBR1000 or R1 respectively

SO! What does this have to do with cars and the ZL1?

While all of the above mentioned bikes are top performance machines from there respective manufactures. Unlike cars, there are not really any different trim packaged or levels to the bikes. It basically goes like this; here is the bike for this year. You can pick between two, maybe three colors. That’s is. Not to omit the fact that there are sub-categories such and engine size etc, but that is different point.

How this relates to cars is:

A base model Camaro. A strip down basic nothing. Steel rims with a v-6 auto. The kind you would rent from Dollar rent-a-car. As a ZL1 owner do you look down on that car/driver? Maybe even just a little bit in the back of your mind? What about the SS series? Now that the ZL1 is top dog… why not? Why wouldn’t you?

It is not being rude. Let me explain. In motorcycles if you ride a GSXR1000 or R1 etc. you own one of the best of the best. If a guy pulls up on a 250 Ninja (equal to a base/base Camaro) it is still a sport bike. So you are still friendly (see original subculture dynamic above) but you kind of look at his bike like. “Dude… WHY?” He is a nice enough guy etc. just with a less than desirable bike compared to yours.

But then a group of Harleys or some metric cruisers show up and you and the 250 Ninja guy are like long lost brothers! The bond of your sport bike group is greater than that of your subculture. Just as if a metric cruisers showed up and you two were the only bikes around, the umbrella of motorcycling would trump the individual subculture. Except Harleys because as previously mentioned…. They hate everybody but their own regardless. =)

I am sure like most of us while out driving we see the Gen 5 Camaro’s and look to see what it is… “Oh that’s a SS/RS” or “hey that a v-6 because of…”

I always looked for the SS cars because they are in my “group” But even now when I look I think. “Dude that SS is nothing compared to the ZL1”. That’s not to say I don’t appreciate or enjoy their car but now with a new king of the road. Have the others all moved down a notch?

Maybe this makes me sound like a jerk. I just was wondering if anyone else now looked at the SS the way they once looked at the V-6. All still Camaro but within this Camaro subculture – I believe just like in bikes – there is a prejudice. Or am I wrong and all Camaro guys love one another equally?

Your thoughts?

Disclaimer: no disrespect intended to any motorcycle group or subculture. Or to V-6 owners

Well as a sportbike guy first and foremost and one who does numerous trackdays (see my avatar) and as one who has a ZL1 on order ( #80) I dont consider myself a snob. I RIDE. A DUCATI too, arguably the pinnacle of sportbikes in terms of technology prestige and championship heritage and I respect the stunters, the Japanese sportbike owners and even the Harley guys. I think any true enthusiast like myself will feel the same way. At the end of the day it's all love. I LIKE BIKES AND CARS...end of story
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:36 PM   #19
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Well, my thoughts are that I don't like those that divide into groups.

I ride dirt, cruiser and sport bike. It's funny too watch the young people come into the groups that inevitably form around these. They don't even realize that why they choose to follow one or the other. Has more to do with influences than what kinda bike. We are human and we naturally divide into groups. It's more fun to hang with all types. Extreme, motocross, trail, endurance, track, drag, stunters... I ride with them all and I enjoy them all... the people.
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:48 PM   #20
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I think you're overthinking this.

Camaros owners normally only snob Mustang owners.
And us Mustang owners used to feel bad for the C5 Camaro crowd, with their movie star ride that was almost but not quite a cool Muscle Car. But you'll get no more pity and thrown races from us trying to keep you guys happy. With the ZL1, the gauntlet has been thrown. Now you'll get the respect you craved for so long.





Kidding! Just pulled my car out of storage today and I'm so happy I'm practically giddy. Can't wait to see more 'Stangs, Challengers and Camaros of all types on the road. I'd have to say the bulk of Mustang folk I know are just car people. If its fast, cool or significant, we like it!!!
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Old 03-25-2012, 09:50 PM   #21
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PS. I used to ride a Radian 600. Not even sure what sub culture that fell into...
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:07 PM   #22
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Drives: 2013 ZL1
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: tangent or
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When you are a trophy husband from tangent Oregon you can't help but be a snob. It must be something in the water around hear. My cars are faster, my goats are better looking, my eyebrow is perfectly waxed. Don't hate me because I am bueatiful and have a zl1 on order ha ha.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:07 PM   #23
Happy_Dan
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Drives: 2012 IOM Camaro ZL1 #569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS View Post
Two thoughts... If a ZL1 owner looks down on me.... all they'll see at a race track is dust off my tires, smoke from the exhaust and my tailights getting really small really quickly....

Secondly, I ride a Harley and I don't hate any two wheeler riders...

Let me explain... I perfectly understand the cultures, but I don't buy into it.... I can't control what others do, only how I respond to it.... I've had guys purposely look the other way at interesctions when I pull up next to them on their scooter and me on my Ultra Classic, out of embarrasement or whatever... only to have them break into a really big grin when they finally look over and see me wave or give them a nod... I'm not an angel by any means, but why should I look down upon anyone...I lived from paycheck to paycheck and qualified for food stamps though I never got them or used any assistance like that... and that was while working as a professional fire fighter...

Enjoy what you have and allow others the same...

I like car guys and gals. I don't care if they are Mustang's or even ricers if they respect the car, the work that others do and are proud.

I have had Camaro's, Corvette's, Fiat's, Jeeps, Pickup trucks and a Harley Road Glide. I always wave to people I think enjoy the hobby and not themselves. Anyone that puts their heart and soul into their rides is good by me. As long as they respect others the same way.
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:14 PM   #24
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Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Portage, WI
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I can keep up with a ZL1 just fine after my performance mods. I would never buy a V6 muscle car myself, but don't hold anything against those folks. I'd like to hang with ZL1 owners if at a show or track, but if they got dickish...my response would be "piss off."
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Old 03-25-2012, 10:26 PM   #25
SGTMiller278CAV
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Drives: 2011 Camaro LS M6
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: Memphis, TN
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Kinda silly to think that because you drive a Z, you are now the king of the camaros, or feel LS, LT, SS are sub par. If someone needs to feel all warm and fuzzy inside by thinking someone in a LS is not as good as you, then they have issues. Whether you drive an LS, LT, SS, ZL1 only one thing matters, it still says Camaro on the side. We cannot start hating each other when we have the Mustang itching to bite us in the ass.
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