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Old 05-08-2012, 09:51 AM   #876
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Originally Posted by Taser Deployed View Post
I have a strong feeling that this 1LE package will close in on $50,000 easily and with every available option it will probably go north of that. If that's the case I don't think its worth the money when you will be basically in ZL1 territory. Not to mention there isn't any engine upgrade and I have a bad feeling that when they put this car up against the Boss Mustang it's not going to be a good showing. If that happens it will probably kill the demand for this car.
So you don't believe the press release that says it will base under $40,000? I don't know why anyone would order the 1LE with every available option... it doesn't make sense with the mission of the car, but I guess that is up to the individual. Is your strong feeling based on actual information or just a random guess?
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:12 AM   #877
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As for the stronger motor and additional Hp, I can see the stronger motor but like i said, the EPS should free a few ponies to narrow the gap. We all know headers and a tune and there is plenty of power from the LS3. and since its about cornering not drag racing, power isn't everything(although its nice to have and very important). I think (interpreted as hope) the chasis improvements will make up the gap in potential straight line performance.
Not really. The mustang already uses EPS. I welcome the EPS, and hope to see both mpg and rear wheel horsepower improvements, but the boss motor is still forged and more hp at the engine.

And you are right motor isn't necessary for cornering. Problem is every other track pack out there is around $3K. If it doesn't match something in that range, then $7K without motor changes is going to hard to swallow unless it blows away the competition.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:18 AM   #878
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So you don't believe the press release that says it will base under $40,000? I don't know why anyone would order the 1LE with every available option... it doesn't make sense with the mission of the car, but I guess that is up to the individual. Is your strong feeling based on actual information or just a random guess?
A no additional options 1SS/1LE no npp, no nav will be under $40k. Add nav, npp, and RS and you are at $43-44k. Purely speculation and no basis. As for the mission of the car, nav adds less than a 10 lbs (I would bet 0 since you already have a gps antenna for OnStar) and NPP is performance based. I wouldn't get a sunroof and i think thats it for options. For a street driven car, thats not too much for add ons.

Lets be honest, a true racer would be better served buying a 1SS and not adding anything from the factory. Swapping to all race exhaust and doing whatever motor upgrades. Come to think of it, the 1LE package may be a waste for a true racecar as you can buy pedders and other aftermarket parts that will out perform the best factory gear in a race only application. I think this will be a fun track day/ weekend SCCA car. For a full race application, your doing coilovers and gearing anyway. The beefed transmission and any associated coolers can be added aftermarket.

I guess i am a little more realistic than some people on here(no flaming please this is an opinion not a jab at anyone), I am not expecting a stripped down race car for $40k. It will be heavy, perform reasonably well, and competitive with its cross town rivals. It will even win sometimes and lose sometimes. I want to do weekend trackdays and still enjoy it on a daily basis. I have owned enough specialty motorcycles dedicated to racing to know that sometimes its nice to have a weekend warrior. just my opinion.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:23 AM   #879
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Not really. The mustang already uses EPS. I welcome the EPS, and hope to see both mpg and rear wheel horsepower improvements, but the boss motor is still forged and more hp at the engine.

And you are right motor isn't necessary for cornering. Problem is every other track pack out there is around $3K. If it doesn't match something in that range, then $7K without motor changes is going to hard to swallow unless it blows away the competition.

I agree $7k sounds steep, but what do the other track packs include for $3k? I ask because i honestly do not know. I do know the Boss package over a base GT is more than $3K. And that is the target of the 1LE correct?
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:35 AM   #880
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Why are the splitter and spoiler "smoke-gray" and the hood (wrap?) matte black? In most of the pictures, the hood seems to match the splitter and spoiler and looks, gray?
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:08 AM   #881
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Why are the splitter and spoiler "smoke-gray" and the hood (wrap?) matte black? In most of the pictures, the hood seems to match the splitter and spoiler and looks, gray?
I want to know why the hell they went with a microfiber suede wheel and shifter. I don't like the appearance of either and the 1LE concept pictures or the pictures in the press release did not have that and the interior looked great.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:13 AM   #882
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they should have the option for an auto
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:22 AM   #883
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I agree $7k sounds steep, but what do the other track packs include for $3k? I ask because i honestly do not know. I do know the Boss package over a base GT is more than $3K. And that is the target of the 1LE correct?
I don't know with 100% certainty, but from what I have heard you get a lot. The track pack on the mustang isn't $3K. It's actually $2500 or $2,495.

It includes:

Engine Oil Cooler
Upgraded Radiator
Brembo brakes with performance brake pads
Different rotors for the Brembos
Gearing Changes (3.73 final ratio over 3.31)
Torsen Differential from the Boss 302
Bigger Wheels (19-inch with Pirelli summer tires)

I have heard that there are also suspension upgrades. What exactly I am not sure. I have heard about these for a 2010 mustang track pack:

GT500 Sta-Bars and rear lower control arms
Retuned struts and shocks
Recalibrated AdvanceTrac®, traction control and anti-lock brakes
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:29 AM   #884
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A little research found this, and I apologize for turning this into a vs. thread, but the base 2012 Mustang GT is $29k. A GT premium $33k. A Boss base is $41k. Add the LS package to the boss is another $7k. The Boss LS is MSRP over $48k. From a base GT that is $19k in upgrades. If the 1LE is available fully loaded (to include a backseat) and competes with the Boss LS package for under $45k then i say that is a smoking deal. For difference in price i will add LTs and a CAI and be ecstatic! And still be able to take my two kids and the wife...
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:41 AM   #885
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Compare the 1LE to a mustang track pack.

Higher final drive: Included in the mustang track pack

Different Stabilizer bars: Included in the mustang track pack

Half Shafts: Nice, but not needed on the live axle as it's already stronger than IRS

Strut tower brace: Stock on mustangs without the track pack already

Zl1 Wheel Bearings/Toe links: Does this have any benefit? Or is this needed to support the new wheels? Anybody know?

Splitter: Advantage 1LE

Fuel system changes: Advantage 1LE

Hood wrap/black spoiler: I could do without it. I would probably remove my hood wrap.

Transmission with cooler: Is the transmission stronger than the SS transmission? What have they beefed up here other than the cooling? I know it has different ratios, but that was done I believe in conjuntion with the 3.91 final drive.

Track Pack: $2,495
1LE: ??????

How much more can a splitter, vinyl wrap, microfiber, wheels, and cooler cost you? You can have an auto transmission for $1000 more. So that's $3,495. How much more can the beefed up manual transmission cost and what exactly was beefed up? Subtract the 3500 from 7K and you get 3500. Hood wrap, splitter and the other tid bits are 3500? Assuming the transmission is even worth $1K more.
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:45 AM   #886
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Add the LS package to the boss is another $7k
What does that 7K for the LS get you?
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:55 AM   #887
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What does that 7K for the LS get you?

The rear strut brace, recaros, rear seat delete, and i believe the blue oval version of PTM (or the most comparable system they offer). I know there are also some cosmetic tweaks and a front splitter.

For me it isn't about the parts. Its the total package. Regardless of what the individual parts are, as long as they add up to the performance I want, its worth it. I didn't see the track pack offered on the Ford site either. I may have missed though as I am at work and the computer really sux! i will not buy a mustang, ever, regardless of how good it is. Nothing against them, they just aren't for me. I understand that both cars are awesome packages and as long as the 1LE performs as advertised, i am sold. Otherwise an SS is in my future.

As for the ZL1 suspension parts, there is another thread on here where the parts are reffered to as pretty good from the factory and Pedders actually recommended keeping many of the stock ZL1 suspension parts and only adding inserts vs replacing the stock bushings.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:07 PM   #888
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The rear strut brace, recaros, rear seat delete, and i believe the blue oval version of PTM (or the most comparable system they offer). I know there are also some cosmetic tweaks and a front splitter.
If that's all, then not worth it to me at all. $7K is a lot of money for just that.

Quote:
For me it isn't about the parts. Its the total package. Regardless of what the individual parts are, as long as they add up to the performance I want, its worth it. I didn't see the track pack offered on the Ford site either. I may have missed though as I am at work and the computer really sux! i will not buy a mustang, ever, regardless of how good it is. Nothing against them, they just aren't for me. I understand that both cars are awesome packages and as long as the 1LE performs as advertised, i am sold. Otherwise an SS is in my future.
Sure. The mustang also has HID stock. Not with an optional RS package. The base MSRP on a 2013 is also cheaper than a 2012 camaro and 2013 pricing has not been released. Mustang also gets 3 mode electronic power steering and track apps that aren't available on the camaro.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying you should buy a mustang. I have already decided on a camaro for my own reasons. I just haven't decided 1LE or SS. That will depend on what the 1LE package costs. I want to know pricing damn it! I also haven't decided 2013 or left over 2012. Again, that depends on what the MSRP will be on a 2013 and what incentives on a 2012.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:36 PM   #889
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I am right there with you on the pricing. They need to release it already!
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:45 PM   #890
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I am right there with you on the pricing. They need to release it already!
If GM is true to its word that the 1LE will come in under $40,000 (i.e. $39,900), then the 1LE package should be $6500-7000 or so. Kinda doesnt matter what the 2013 MSRP is as long as GM keeps its promise. Once you add destination, tax, title, tags, etc. it'll be over $40,000.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:56 PM   #891
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If GM is true to its word that the 1LE will come in under $40,000 (i.e. $39,900), then the 1LE package should be $6500-7000 or so. Kinda doesnt matter what the 2013 MSRP is as long as GM keeps its promise. Once you add destination, tax, title, tags, etc. it'll be over $40,000.

I get that but I want a 2SS with NPP and possibly nav. I need official numbers. I hope to get military pricing also so actual numbers are kind of important. I am willing to go $45k or maybe $46k. This should be possible but I don't want to order then have to change something. Not a fan of changing things mid order.
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:43 PM   #892
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NPP? Is that the dual mode exhaust? I have thought about it, but how does it compare with an aftermarket exhaust system? Is it the same price as an aftermarket exhaust? If so, then does an aftermarket exhaust gain more horsepower over the dual mode exhaust? Not sure if I see a point in getting it if I can get more from an aftermarket exhaust for a similar price. what's the biggest benefit? Street legal?
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:01 PM   #893
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I have been trying to find out more on the MM6. Here is what I found from some cadillac website:

Quote:
One-piece countershaft added for durability (MM6)
On the new optional Corvette Z06 package, a stronger single-piece countershaft replaces the two-piece countershaft. The 505-hp LS7 creates 470 lb.-ft. of torque, which required the stronger shaft for durability.

32-spline output shaft added for durability (MM6)
The output shaft was enlarged to a 32-spline unit, which is more durable than the 27-spline unit used in the standard Corvette applications. The rear differential was also increased in size from an 8.25-inch ring gear to a 9-inch ring gear and a larger pinion gear. The bias ratio on the limited-slip differential was increased to 2.5:1 from 2.0:1, and the differential side-cover mounting arms were made stiffer, as well.

Rear extension housing bolt pattern changed (MM6)
The bolt pattern for the rear of the case extension of the Six-Speed was changed for Corvette applications to match the same bolt pattern as the new six-speed 6L80-E automatic.
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:28 PM   #894
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NPP? Is that the dual mode exhaust? I have thought about it, but how does it compare with an aftermarket exhaust system? Is it the same price as an aftermarket exhaust? If so, then does an aftermarket exhaust gain more horsepower over the dual mode exhaust? Not sure if I see a point in getting it if I can get more from an aftermarket exhaust for a similar price. what's the biggest benefit? Street legal?
It's the dual mode exhaust. It may not make as much power as aftermarket but I like the quiet option. I have dealt with loud exhausts on long trips and it gets old. Even around town I sometimes like to not give myself a headache. 0500 leaving home for work, I don't want to wake up the neighborhood. LTs will be loud enough anyway.

I'm not all about peak Hp. I am pretty convinced that 5-10 Hp will not matter to me. But to each their own
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:30 PM   #895
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So you don't believe the press release that says it will base under $40,000? I don't know why anyone would order the 1LE with every available option... it doesn't make sense with the mission of the car, but I guess that is up to the individual. Is your strong feeling based on actual information or just a random guess?
I don't believe GM was lying but under 40 grand is probably $39,900 for the base 1LE. You might not know why anyone would order the 1LE with every available option but I can promise you that a good number of the people who are going to buy this car will want all of the bells and whistles because for some this will be an everyday car. My feelings just come from me knowing how things are advertised. Hell you can go get a brand new 1SS for about $33,000 or cheaper depending on where you get it. So technically you can get an SS camaro for that price but does everyone pay that...... Nope. A fully loaded 2SS will cost you roughly $40,000 grand.
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Old 05-08-2012, 04:53 PM   #896
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So, best as I can tell from 2012 pricing, a 1LE with EVERY available option would add just over $8000 to the base price of a 1SS with 1LE, so I guess a $48000 1LE will likely be possible and I agree, you would have to think seriously about adding another $7000 and getting a ZL1 at that point (which would not have every available option). I plan to drive the car regularly, just like I did my 2010 1SS and have a window sticker of about $41000 (I only ordered one option beyond 1LE, which was the NPP exhaust), reduced by the GM card rebate and some off of the MSRP for a total of less than $40,000, but I would love to be pleasantly surprised when the pricing comes out and find out that it would be a little less than that.

I don't see how leather, sunroof, rear parking sensors and camera, etc. make it more of a daily driver... they are just extras if you want them. I think the reason not to buy this for an everyday car for some will be the ride quality. I expect it to ride hard and corner harder.
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Old 05-08-2012, 05:04 PM   #897
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So, best as I can tell from 2012 pricing, a 1LE with EVERY available option would add just over $8000 to the base price of a 1SS with 1LE, so I guess a $48000 1LE will likely be possible and I agree, you would have to think seriously about adding another $7000 and getting a ZL1 at that point (which would not have every available option). I plan to drive the car regularly, just like I did my 2010 1SS and have a window sticker of about $41000 (I only ordered one option beyond 1LE, which was the NPP exhaust), reduced by the GM card rebate and some off of the MSRP for a total of less than $40,000, but I would love to be pleasantly surprised when the pricing comes out and find out that it would be a little less than that.

I don't see how leather, sunroof, rear parking sensors and camera, etc. make it more of a daily driver... they are just extras if you want them. I think the reason not to buy this for an everyday car for some will be the ride quality. I expect it to ride hard and corner harder.
I agree that the ride quality may be a little rough. We will just have to wait and see what the pricing looks like because I'm on the fence between a 2SS or the 1LE. At least there are more options to choose from which is always good.
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:48 AM   #898
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Old 05-11-2012, 06:53 AM   #899
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So you don't believe the press release that says it will base under $40,000? I don't know why anyone would order the 1LE with every available option... it doesn't make sense with the mission of the car, but I guess that is up to the individual.
You are right, it does not make sense that a buyer would order such a package and add a bunch of useless options, but the dealers certainly will.
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:00 AM   #900
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1le not the z28

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this is not the z28 the 1le is a package from older camaros like the early 70s i think i cant remember but
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