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Old 03-29-2012, 11:59 PM   #603
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Thank you GM!

I rented a camaro some time ago and my impressions were. Engine: Excellent. Brakes: Excellent. Handling: Good....but not Excellent. However, the ride quality was amazing. Compared to the cars I have it handled like a luxury car which was impressive.

So naturally when they made changes to the suspension in 2012 I was going to get one of those, but now the 1LE package is available on the 2013's which seems exactly what I would want. Since this will be more DD and less track car (for now) I have to ask to make sure I'm making the right choice:

Quote:
Again - the 1LE is NOT for everyone - it's a bit harsher than the SS.
How much harsher are we talking about? The SS that I rented was excellent on bumps. I could live taking it from excellent to good in ride quality for excellent instead of good handling. I just don't know if I want to handle bone jarring.

As for the transmission. Are the cooling and gearing changes all there is or has it been beefed in other ways? Any changes to the syncro's or other parts?

I have also taken a look at the new final ratio and gear ratios and I am not a speed calculating expert, but here is what I got using this calculator. Can someone tell me if this is accurate or if I should go back to math class?

http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/gear_ratios.shtml

I used 27.8544 for the tire diameter, 6,600 for the rpm.

So with the 3.45 Final and the transmission gearing listed for the SS I get max speeds of
1st: 53 mph
2nd: 77 mph
3rd: 111 mph
4th: 159 mph
5th: 189 mph
6th: 278 mph

With the new 3.91 Final and the transmission gearing listed for the 1LE I get max speeds of

1st: 53 mph
2nd: 79 mph
3rd: 108mph
4th: 140 mph
5th: 189 mph
6th: 280 mph

It looks like first gear comes out to exactly the same.

Second gear is actually slightly taller on the 1LE, but very minimal (around 100 rpm)

Third gear is a little shorter on the 1LE, but not much again (around 100 rpm)

Now 4th gear is where you notice the shorter gearing of the 1LE.

The overdrives are pretty much exactly the same as well so it looks like you can still sip fuel in granny mode. Very nice. It looks like this is still a great daily driver.

Of course, that's if my calculations are correct???

My last impression of the rental camaro was that it was too damn quiet and refined, but I can see how some people might like that. I was going to solve that with an aftermarket exhaust, but maybe the dual mode exhaust on the 2013's will be exactly what I wanted stock!

Last edited by cbass; 03-30-2012 at 12:11 AM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:20 AM   #604
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So they teased me with the SSX Concept and this is what they came up with? Who are they marketing this car to? I am sure I will see some around when the're available. I'll see them in Mall Parking lots on Saturday Night with the owner relaxed in a lawn chair next to it. If you are thinking of waiting to buy a 1LE to be able to take a Camaro out on the track, don't waste your time or money. Go buy a 2010 M6 SS, invest the difference in price up to 40K and you would eat this ILE for a lite bedtime snack.
I feel like a kid at christmas who opened his present to find a pair of freakin' sox!
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:33 AM   #605
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post

http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/gear_ratios.shtml

I used 27.8544 for the tire diameter, 6,600 for the rpm.

So with the 3.45 Final and the transmission gearing listed for the SS I get max speeds of
1st: 53 mph
2nd: 77 mph
3rd: 111 mph
4th: 159 mph
5th: 189 mph
6th: 278 mph

With the new 3.91 Final and the transmission gearing listed for the 1LE I get max speeds of

1st: 53 mph
2nd: 79 mph
3rd: 108mph
4th: 140 mph
5th: 189 mph
6th: 280 mph

It looks like first gear comes out to exactly the same.

Second gear is actually slightly taller on the 1LE, but very minimal (around 100 rpm)

Third gear is a little shorter on the 1LE, but not much again (around 100 rpm)

Now 4th gear is where you notice the shorter gearing of the 1LE.

The overdrives are pretty much exactly the same as well so it looks like you can still sip fuel in granny mode. Very nice. It looks like this is still a great daily driver.

Of course, that's if my calculations are correct???

My last impression of the rental camaro was that it was too damn quiet and refined, but I can see how some people might like that. I was going to solve that with an aftermarket exhaust, but maybe the dual mode exhaust on the 2013's will be exactly what I wanted stock!
Aren't the transmission ratios the same for both cars? I can't see where they changed.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:45 AM   #606
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post
Thank you GM!

I rented a camaro some time ago and my impressions were. Engine: Excellent. Brakes: Excellent. Handling: Good....but not Excellent. However, the ride quality was amazing. Compared to the cars I have it handled like a luxury car which was impressive.

So naturally when they made changes to the suspension in 2012 I was going to get one of those, but now the 1LE package is available on the 2013's which seems exactly what I would want. Since this will be more DD and less track car (for now) I have to ask to make sure I'm making the right choice:

How much harsher are we talking about? The SS that I rented was excellent on bumps. I could live taking it from excellent to good in ride quality for excellent instead of good handling. I just don't know if I want to handle bone jarring.

As for the transmission. Are the cooling and gearing changes all there is or has it been beefed in other ways? Any changes to the syncro's or other parts?

I have also taken a look at the new final ratio and gear ratios and I am not a speed calculating expert, but here is what I got using this calculator. Can someone tell me if this is accurate or if I should go back to math class?

http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/gear_ratios.shtml

I used 27.8544 for the tire diameter, 6,600 for the rpm.

So with the 3.45 Final and the transmission gearing listed for the SS I get max speeds of
1st: 53 mph
2nd: 77 mph
3rd: 111 mph
4th: 159 mph
5th: 189 mph
6th: 278 mph

With the new 3.91 Final and the transmission gearing listed for the 1LE I get max speeds of

1st: 53 mph
2nd: 79 mph
3rd: 108mph
4th: 140 mph
5th: 189 mph
6th: 280 mph

It looks like first gear comes out to exactly the same.

Second gear is actually slightly taller on the 1LE, but very minimal (around 100 rpm)

Third gear is a little shorter on the 1LE, but not much again (around 100 rpm)

Now 4th gear is where you notice the shorter gearing of the 1LE.

The overdrives are pretty much exactly the same as well so it looks like you can still sip fuel in granny mode. Very nice. It looks like this is still a great daily driver.

Of course, that's if my calculations are correct???

My last impression of the rental camaro was that it was too damn quiet and refined, but I can see how some people might like that. I was going to solve that with an aftermarket exhaust, but maybe the dual mode exhaust on the 2013's will be exactly what I wanted stock!
I think you need to double check your calculations There is NO Camaro that can do those top speeds that you have calculated. I believe the SS (stock) is top rated @ 165 mph and it's governed to 155 mph. The impression I've gotten from some of the members here that do partake in HPDE (High Performance Driving Events) the main focus of the car I believe is for those track days that speeds will average from 20 - 120 mph and to be able to handle twisties at higher than normal g's for extended periods of time.

I also rented a Camaro 2SS a few months and was extremely happy with the ride quality (compared to my old Camaros and rides as well if not better than my DD).

To somewhat answer your question about the ride quality with the 1LE option package, I remember Fbodfather stating it was "eye-squinting" as opposed to bone-jarring. If you're looking to use the Camaro as a DD, my recommendation would be to get the SS of your choice and then when you feel you are ready to begin your adventures on the track, you could trade it in for another SS w/1LE package. Good luck in your quest
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Old 03-30-2012, 03:40 AM   #607
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post
Thank you GM!

I rented a camaro some time ago and my impressions were. Engine: Excellent. Brakes: Excellent. Handling: Good....but not Excellent. However, the ride quality was amazing. Compared to the cars I have it handled like a luxury car which was impressive.

So naturally when they made changes to the suspension in 2012 I was going to get one of those, but now the 1LE package is available on the 2013's which seems exactly what I would want. Since this will be more DD and less track car (for now) I have to ask to make sure I'm making the right choice:

How much harsher are we talking about? The SS that I rented was excellent on bumps. I could live taking it from excellent to good in ride quality for excellent instead of good handling. I just don't know if I want to handle bone jarring.

As for the transmission. Are the cooling and gearing changes all there is or has it been beefed in other ways? Any changes to the syncro's or other parts?

I have also taken a look at the new final ratio and gear ratios and I am not a speed calculating expert, but here is what I got using this calculator. Can someone tell me if this is accurate or if I should go back to math class?

http://www.apexgarage.com/tech/gear_ratios.shtml

I used 27.8544 for the tire diameter, 6,600 for the rpm.

So with the 3.45 Final and the transmission gearing listed for the SS I get max speeds of
1st: 53 mph
2nd: 77 mph
3rd: 111 mph
4th: 159 mph
5th: 189 mph
6th: 278 mph

With the new 3.91 Final and the transmission gearing listed for the 1LE I get max speeds of

1st: 53 mph
2nd: 79 mph
3rd: 108mph
4th: 140 mph
5th: 189 mph
6th: 280 mph

It looks like first gear comes out to exactly the same.

Second gear is actually slightly taller on the 1LE, but very minimal (around 100 rpm)

Third gear is a little shorter on the 1LE, but not much again (around 100 rpm)

Now 4th gear is where you notice the shorter gearing of the 1LE.

The overdrives are pretty much exactly the same as well so it looks like you can still sip fuel in granny mode. Very nice. It looks like this is still a great daily driver.

Of course, that's if my calculations are correct???

My last impression of the rental camaro was that it was too damn quiet and refined, but I can see how some people might like that. I was going to solve that with an aftermarket exhaust, but maybe the dual mode exhaust on the 2013's will be exactly what I wanted stock!
I must agree with you on the last point, when a car is super refined and quiet it makes the car feel slower then it really is.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:26 AM   #608
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro View Post
I think you need to double check your calculations There is NO Camaro that can do those top speeds that you have calculated. I believe the SS (stock) is top rated @ 165 mph and it's governed to 155 mph. The impression I've gotten from some of the members here that do partake in HPDE (High Performance Driving Events) the main focus of the car I believe is for those track days that speeds will average from 20 - 120 mph and to be able to handle twisties at higher than normal g's for extended periods of time.

I also rented a Camaro 2SS a few months and was extremely happy with the ride quality (compared to my old Camaros and rides as well if not better than my DD).

To somewhat answer your question about the ride quality with the 1LE option package, I remember Fbodfather stating it was "eye-squinting" as opposed to bone-jarring. If you're looking to use the Camaro as a DD, my recommendation would be to get the SS of your choice and then when you feel you are ready to begin your adventures on the track, you could trade it in for another SS w/1LE package. Good luck in your quest
Those top speeds in 5th and 6th a theoretical based on if the car had the power to reach redline (6600 rpm) in 5th and 6th gear. It doesn't have the power obviously so it won't reach those speeds, but the gearing could accommodate such speeds if the power was available.
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:33 AM   #609
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock36 View Post
Those top speeds in 5th and 6th a theoretical based on if the car had the power to reach redline (6600 rpm) in 5th and 6th gear. It doesn't have the power obviously so it won't reach those speeds, but the gearing could accommodate such speeds if the power was available.
Thanks for that information Wow, imagine if it did have that kind of power, it would give warp drive a whole new meaning
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:35 AM   #610
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I guess with that kind of power, we're talking Funnycar dragsters with 2000+ HP
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Old 03-30-2012, 05:38 AM   #611
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Originally Posted by revychevy View Post
This is awesome news, I want this bad, but I just paid off my car and the wife wants no car note for a while. Dang! (can Pedders mod this suspension?)
Yes! It's not MRC, already talked to Pete!
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:20 AM   #612
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Yes! It's not MRC, already talked to Pete!
Just noticed something cool. If you take the 1LE and SS and combine them, you have 1LESS. Which means 1 Less as in 1 lb less than 3850. 3849 lbs.
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Old 03-30-2012, 08:48 AM   #613
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Originally Posted by PYROLYSIS View Post
Just noticed something cool. If you take the 1LE and SS and combine them, you have 1LESS. Which means 1 Less as in 1 lb less than 3850. 3849 lbs.
Or 1 less than a real ZL1
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Old 03-30-2012, 09:00 AM   #614
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Originally Posted by Bad@ssCamaro View Post
Thanks for that information Wow, imagine if it did have that kind of power, it would give warp drive a whole new meaning
Considering that Warp 1 = Light Speed... I don't really think so... 280Miles/hr is nothing compared to 186,000Miles/sec.

Given that Warp is calculated with in TOS and in TNG, it's not even close...
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:05 AM   #615
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Quote:
Aren't the transmission ratios the same for both cars? I can't see where they changed.
Not according to the spec.

SS:
1st: 3.01
2nd: 2.07
3rd: 1.43
4th: 1.00
5th: 0.84
6th: 0.57
Final Drive Ratio: 3:45

1LE:
1st: 2.66
2nd: 1.78
3rd: 1.30
4th: 1.00
5th: 0.74
6th: 0.5
Final Drive Ratio: 3.91

Quote:
think you need to double check your calculations There is NO Camaro that can do those top speeds that you have calculated. I believe the SS (stock) is top rated @ 165 mph and it's governed to 155 mph.
Quote:
Those top speeds in 5th and 6th a theoretical based on if the car had the power to reach redline (6600 rpm) in 5th and 6th gear. It doesn't have the power obviously so it won't reach those speeds, but the gearing could accommodate such speeds if the power was available.
Exactly. Those are theoretical speeds and the highest ones are for the overdrive gears which are typically just used for fuel economy by lowering rpms. The car doesn't have enough power for its weight and aerodynamics to reach the theoretical speeds (at least not the 300 mph). That and there's a governor. The govenor can easily be solved. Extra hp takes a little more effort. Enough to reach 300 mph takes a lot more effort.

Quote:
I must agree with you on the last point, when a car is super refined and quiet it makes the car feel slower then it really is.
I'm still curious if someone can expand on the ride quality as I would like to order my camaro ASAP. And there aren't many people that can comment on this right now other than someone like fbodfather....hint hint.....the person that question was directed toward.

As it stands right now the SS I drove was awesome for comfort both with the suspension and the seats. I know this is suppose to be a muscle car and all, but damn I liked it. I could take this thing cross country. I could give up some of that for better handling, which I thought was slightly lacking. I just want to know how much I am giving up. I am thinking that even with the improvement this thing will still be more comfortable than anything I have now.

What is the major improvements to handling? Is it the tower brace and the thicker roll bars or is it more than that?

Last edited by cbass; 03-30-2012 at 10:39 AM.
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Old 03-30-2012, 10:36 AM   #616
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbass View Post
Not according to the spec.

SS:
1st: 3.01
2nd: 2.07
3rd: 1.43
4th: 1.00
5th: 0.84
6th: 0.57
Final Drive Ratio: 3:45

1LE:
1st: 2.66
2nd: 1.78
3rd: 1.30
4th: 1.00
5th: 0.74
6th: 0.5
Final Drive Ratio: 3.91
Cool thanks for the clarification on the transmission ratios. I'm curious then why bother? The overall gearing in both cars remains nearly unchanged.

SS
1st gear: 3.01*3.45 = 10.38
2nd gear: 2.07 * 3.45 = 7.14
3rd gear: 1.43 * 3.45 = 4.93
4th gear: 1 * 3.45 = 3.45
5th gear: 0.84 * 3.45 = 2.898
6th gear: 0.57*3.45 = 1.97

1LE

1st gear: 2.66 *3.91 = 10.40
2nd gear: 1.78 * 3.91 = 6.96
3rd gear: 1.30 * 3.91 = 5.08
4th gear: 1 * 3.91 = 3.91
5th gear: 0.74 * 3.91 = 2.894
6th gear: 0.50*3.91 = 1.95

The gearing ends up nearly the same except for 4th gear will benefit noticeably from the 3.91 gears in the back, and to a lesser extent 3rd.

I guess actually that makes sense as 3rd and 4th gear are geared a little bit lower than an SS, because you will probably spend most of the time on road course in those two gears... I can especially see the lower ratio helping out in 4th where you would likely be when blasting down a straight. The rest of the ratios remain the same (an nearly identical for 5th a 6th for cruising).

I think I answered my own question, while I was writing. That is actually a pretty good way to improve the gearing where it matters most on the track (i.e. 3rd and 4th), and keep the rest the same for daily driving balance and MPG ratings while cruising.

Good stuff, it all make sense to me now.
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