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Old 03-27-2012, 04:57 AM   #1
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ZL-1 Insecurity issues

First let me be clear. I am in no way disrespecting the ZL-1. It's a beautiful car with some of the most modern gizmo's ever produced. But why is it when all of the prospective ZL-1 owners talk about HP, they say 580hp? Literally everyone that resides in Camaro5 talks RWHP. Is it because it just doesn't sound as mind blowing as BHP? Has the stock ZL-1 been dyno'd? If the math is correct or even sort of close it should be putting down around 460RWHP? Am I correct? There are many SS owners on here that get that with just a few mods. So other than some cool magnetic stuff and additional whistles and bells, a slightly modded SS will still beat the pants off a ZL-1 in stock form. So not sure what all the hype is about?

I say we all start using our BHP numbers. SO, that leaves me with a 560HP 2010 Camaro. Yeah, that does sound good. Thanks ZL-1!
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:46 AM   #2
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It really doesn't matter. Nobody has received their ZL1 yet, so they haven't been chassis dyno'd yet by the public. I suspect you will start to see some numbers soon after they are received by customers.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:51 AM   #3
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The reason people with modded cars talk RWHP is largely because they really don't know what the crank HP is. Sure,there are percentages you can use as a rule of thumb,but they can still be pretty far off & the only way to truly know with a modded car is to pull the motor and put it on the dyno stand.....which no one is going to do.


And I can only speak for myself,but I am not impressed at all that a modded car can best a stock one. I am,however,very impressed that with all the regulations GM is saddled with (CAFE,EPA), that they can produce a car such as the ZL1.

And unless one of your "few" mods is a supercharger(or a big ol' shot of NOS), you still aren't going to touch a bone stock,as delivered,ZL1.

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Old 03-27-2012, 05:54 AM   #4
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Because 580hp is what the motor produces according to GM. Just like the SS produces 426/400 according to GM. The aftermarket world rates at rear wheel because that's the easiest way to test without taking the motor out and testing only that. This tread would lead me to think that your the one the has insecurity issues.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:25 AM   #5
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Because 580hp is what the motor produces according to GM. Just like the SS produces 426/400 according to GM. The aftermarket world rates at rear wheel because that's the easiest way to test without taking the motor out and testing only that. This tread would lead me to think that your the one the has insecurity issues.
Yeah, you're probably right..
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:28 AM   #6
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The reason people with modded cars talk RWHP is largely because they really don't know what the crank HP is. Sure,there are percentages you can use as a rule of thumb,but they can still be pretty far off & the only way to truly know with a modded car is to pull the motor and put it on the dyno stand.....which no one is going to do.


And I can only speak for myself,but I am not impressed at all that a modded car can best a stock one. I am,however,very impressed that with all the regulations GM is saddled with (CAFE,EPA), that they can produce a car such as the ZL1.

And unless one of your "few" mods is a supercharger(or a big ol' shot of NOS), you still aren't going to touch a bone stock,as delivered,ZL1.
So you're saying that an N/A SS won't touch a ZL-1? I'll be there are some that can and will. Not that it matters. Again, I'm not really wanting to compare Camaro's to Camaro's. Just found it interesting that most of the forum reads I went through on the ZL-1, I read "580" a lot. I know that's the BHP but sure will be interesting to see what it puts down to the wheels in stock form.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:33 AM   #7
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First let me be clear. I am in no way disrespecting the ZL-1. It's a beautiful car with some of the most modern gizmo's ever produced. But why is it when all of the prospective ZL-1 owners talk about HP, they say 580hp? Literally everyone that resides in Camaro5 talks RWHP. Is it because it just doesn't sound as mind blowing as BHP? Has the stock ZL-1 been dyno'd? If the math is correct or even sort of close it should be putting down around 460RWHP? Am I correct? There are many SS owners on here that get that with just a few mods. So other than some cool magnetic stuff and additional whistles and bells, a slightly modded SS will still beat the pants off a ZL-1 in stock form. So not sure what all the hype is about?

I say we all start using our BHP numbers. SO, that leaves me with a 560HP 2010 Camaro. Yeah, that does sound good. Thanks ZL-1!
Maybe in a straight line. Good luck around a track. This has been discussed in depth in other threads. I would much rather buy a bone stock car that keeps its warranty than mod it up. It is different strokes for different folks. I will leave my z bone stock and original. I know how excited I used to get as a kid when I would see some of the few 30 year old muscle cars out and about for a cruise in the summer. That's what I'm looking for. Who knows how long this wonderful hp era will last with the green and government intruding. Every car in each of the motor manufacturers fleets might run on leaves in another 4 years. Lol
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:36 AM   #8
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Maybe in a straight line. Good luck around a track. This has been discussed in depth in other threads. I would much rather buy a bone stock car that keeps its warranty than mod it up. It is different strokes for different folks. I will leave my z bone stock and original. I know how excited I used to get as a kid when I would see some of the few 30 year old muscle cars out and about for a cruise in the summer. That's what I'm looking for. Who knows how long this wonderful hp era will last with the green and government intruding. Every car in each of the motor manufacturers fleets might run on leaves in another 4 years. Lol
We'll all be installing Mr. Fusion's on the back of our cars!
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:36 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by SixGracing View Post
First let me be clear. I am in no way disrespecting the ZL-1. It's a beautiful car with some of the most modern gizmo's ever produced. But why is it when all of the prospective ZL-1 owners talk about HP, they say 580hp? Literally everyone that resides in Camaro5 talks RWHP. Is it because it just doesn't sound as mind blowing as BHP? Has the stock ZL-1 been dyno'd? If the math is correct or even sort of close it should be putting down around 460RWHP? Am I correct? There are many SS owners on here that get that with just a few mods. So other than some cool magnetic stuff and additional whistles and bells, a slightly modded SS will still beat the pants off a ZL-1 in stock form. So not sure what all the hype is about?

I say we all start using our BHP numbers. SO, that leaves me with a 560HP 2010 Camaro. Yeah, that does sound good. Thanks ZL-1!
This is also probably the reason that the mustang guys all quote the new gt at anywhere from 650-670
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:38 AM   #10
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We'll all be installing Mr. Fusion's on the back of our cars!
No doubt!! I like the flux compasitor idea myself! I guess doc was ahead of his time! Lol
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:46 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by SixGracing View Post
First let me be clear. I am in no way disrespecting the ZL-1. It's a beautiful car with some of the most modern gizmo's ever produced. But why is it when all of the prospective ZL-1 owners talk about HP, they say 580hp? Literally everyone that resides in Camaro5 talks RWHP. Is it because it just doesn't sound as mind blowing as BHP? Has the stock ZL-1 been dyno'd? If the math is correct or even sort of close it should be putting down around 460RWHP? Am I correct? There are many SS owners on here that get that with just a few mods. So other than some cool magnetic stuff and additional whistles and bells, a slightly modded SS will still beat the pants off a ZL-1 in stock form. So not sure what all the hype is about?

I say we all start using our BHP numbers. SO, that leaves me with a 560HP 2010 Camaro. Yeah, that does sound good. Thanks ZL-1!
I own a Mustang MD2000 chassis dyno that is eddy current. We dyno all the time to tune cars. The big thing that people don't realize is that all these big numbers come from an inertia dyno. An inertia dyno will give almost 75 more horse power than ours and also how the driver drives the car on the dyno makes a big difference. We are tuners so we don't care if the numbers were between 1 and 10, all we car is did the engine like it and go up or did it not and go down. I'm sure there are guys out there that have big numbers on an eddy current dyno, but I'm sure the vast majority don't. So I guess what I'm saying is that all these big numbers don't impress me at all.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:46 AM   #12
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So you're saying that an N/A SS won't touch a ZL-1? I'll be there are some that can and will. Not that it matters. Again, I'm not really wanting to compare Camaro's to Camaro's. Just found it interesting that most of the forum reads I went through on the ZL-1, I read "580" a lot. I know that's the BHP but sure will be interesting to see what it puts down to the wheels in stock form.

Yea then when someone mods. their ZL1 then what...
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:50 AM   #13
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And I can only speak for myself,but I am not impressed at all that a modded car can best a stock one. I am,however,very impressed that with all the regulations GM is saddled with (CAFE,EPA), that they can produce a car such as the ZL1.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:08 AM   #14
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Yea then when someone mods. their ZL1 then what...
I dunno, then what? What if someone puts a jet engine on their SS. Then what? This really isn't about who's faster and again, where does it end? Shall we just compare stock for stock on all cars? Probably not since the Mustangs will make us all look bad. So, let's do our mods and have fun with our cars.

To the poster about tuning and dyno's. I agree. Dyno numbers can be manipulated. Like you, my tuner looks for gains and not too concerned about big worthless numbers. I'm sure you've seen the Cartek video with the Camaro with 515RWHP run in the 10's. Weird since there are 600+ hp cars running high 11's. So HP numbers don't always mean fast or slow in some cases.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:13 AM   #15
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The reason people with modded cars talk RWHP is largely because they really don't know what the crank HP is. Sure,there are percentages you can use as a rule of thumb,but they can still be pretty far off & the only way to truly know with a modded car is to pull the motor and put it on the dyno stand.....which no one is going to do.


And I can only speak for myself,but I am not impressed at all that a modded car can best a stock one. I am,however,very impressed that with all the regulations GM is saddled with (CAFE,EPA), that they can produce a car such as the ZL1.

And unless one of your "few" mods is a supercharger(or a big ol' shot of NOS), you still aren't going to touch a bone stock,as delivered,ZL1.

Well said. I just got done doing heads and cam on my car and i have no idea where i am on HP, or TQ for that matter. There is no way to calculate it when you toss on parts unless its a kit you buy that has been tested.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:17 AM   #16
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haha another useless thread brought on by ZL1 envy..
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:19 AM   #17
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Another myopic view of a single thread of a diverse car. It's the whole package that makes us want to have a ZL1.

How many laps around a road course can you go in your SS before your oil, rear diff, tranny and engine oil are all too hot and how many times can you get hard on the brakes before they start to fade and you go slower and slower and slower?
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:22 AM   #18
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Even if you Dyno the car it's really only useful as a yard stick to test performance mods. Stock Boss 302's (444 HP) were putting down RWHP numbers from the low 360's to the mid 410's. Different days, different dynos, different drivers and yes, even some variation in the motors.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:30 AM   #19
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Another myopic view of a single thread of a diverse car. It's the whole package that makes us want to have a ZL1.

How many laps around a road course can you go in your SS before your oil, rear diff, tranny and engine oil are all too hot and how many times can you get hard on the brakes before they start to fade and you go slower and slower and slower?
This thread was only about how HP numbers are quoted. I started it off by saying in no way am I disrespecting the ZL-1. Hell, I wish I had known these were coming out when I bought mine. I would have waited. The ZL-1 is an awesome car and I'm glad to be a Camaro/GM owner because of it.

I knew everyone was going to get their panties up in a wad, it's why I started it. Another way to find entertainment on a slow work night.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:32 AM   #20
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Actually it's just more of the same. Thanks for letting us help entertain you.
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:41 AM   #21
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Even if you Dyno the car it's really only useful as a yard stick to test performance mods. Stock Boss 302's (444 HP) were putting down RWHP numbers from the low 360's to the mid 410's. Different days, different dynos, different drivers and yes, even some variation in the motors.
Only if people truly understood this. Instead you get guys who say "oh wow my 444 hp Boss 302 dynoed at 410 rwhp, with 15% drivetrain loss I'm really making ~480hp! All Boss 302s are underrated!!!"

I only used an example of a Boss 302 to build off your example. I've seen someone in every auto community/fanbase try to justify factory underrating by happy dynos....
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Old 03-27-2012, 07:45 AM   #22
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I own a Mustang MD2000 chassis dyno that is eddy current. We dyno all the time to tune cars. The big thing that people don't realize is that all these big numbers come from an inertia dyno. An inertia dyno will give almost 75 more horse power than ours and also how the driver drives the car on the dyno makes a big difference. We are tuners so we don't care if the numbers were between 1 and 10, all we car is did the engine like it and go up or did it not and go down. I'm sure there are guys out there that have big numbers on an eddy current dyno, but I'm sure the vast majority don't. So I guess what I'm saying is that all these big numbers don't impress me at all.


On eddy current dynos, C6Z06s will make 430-440 rwhp. On inertia dynos you get guys making 460 rwhp and sometimes as high as 480 rwhp.

BUt reputable corvette engine builders like Katech who have and use actual engine dynos will tell you 99% of all stock LS7s will dyno 505-508 bhp.

If there is an SAE certified rating (the ZL1 is SAE certified IIRC), chances are that is exactly what the engine makes.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:00 AM   #23
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I always have a hard time with the modded vs factory comparisons. Sure, there are plenty of ways to get more power out of a car through the aftermarket, but will the complete package be as good as a factory car with similar power?

I happen to think that the millions of dollars and thousands of man hours that went into developing the ZL1 are going to produce a factory car that will be hard to replicate in the aftermarket at a similar price point. I have no doubt you could build a quicker SS for similar money, but the overall package is what the ZL1 is about to me. The idea of a car that is comfortable enough to daily drive yet will hold its own on both the road course and the strip without falling apart are the reasons I want this car.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:07 AM   #24
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2012 ZL1 Dynos at 580HP - SAE Certified

This is old news
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:11 AM   #25
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Another "mine is bigger than yours" thread? Geeeeeez just look at the title. Fail.
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