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Old 03-27-2012, 05:11 PM   #51
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
I'm sorry you feel the way you do.


"Kept their mouth shut" -- I must respectfully disagree with you - I don't know of any other manufacturer that has people who spend more time on an enthusiast site and answering questions than the Camaro team and GM. Further - no matter WHAT one says, it won't keep people happy unless you tell them exactly - EXACTLY - what they want to hear....I refuse to tell anyone 'exactly what they want to hear' -- that's the quickest way I know to lose hard-earned credibility.

The interior is not just like the ZL1. True - the black wheels are the same as the ZL1 - but the hoods and front fascia are different.....let me assure you that the ZL1 does NOT look like every other Camaro from the front or side....

I'm not exactly sure what we could have done to keep you happy with the entire process - but I will say this: Everything we do - EVERYTHING we do with Camaro has the customer first and foremost in our minds.

In fact, we're taking the 'Disciples' out very shortly to talk to them about many more things - remember - the "12 Disciples of which there are 15" have been involved with the Camaro since shortly after we unveiled the Concept Camaro..........we intend to continue our dialogue and meetings with them because THEY are your voices --- and we DO care!

I can't make your decision - that's something you'll have to do.

BUT - I'd suggest that you go back and re-read what the media is saying about the car -- and perhaps that will aid in your decision.......
GM kind of had to listen to our voices. If they didn't the Camaro wouldn't be what it is today unfortunately no matter which way you look at it. GM put themselves in a situation to become bankrupt, so whoevers idea was it to listen to an euthusiast site deserves all the creditability in the world.

The moment GM starts not to listen to us is when they will fail.

If you don't mind me asking whats the youngest age whom belongs to the "Disciples"?
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:13 PM   #52
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Not to mention that Janet here is one of them and collected all our input and brought it with her. I don't know what better example you can have that they listen and on fact solicit input. I don't know of anyone else that does that.

Thank you GM!
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:16 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcePick06 View Post
No my post was more to the fact that MOST AFTERMARKET units let your OPERATE THE NAVIGATION FUNCTIONS while driving. I have FACTORY NAV in my LEXUS IS350 and I hate that when I'm moving more than 1mph the screen locks up and I can't use it...aftermarket units don't do this. I would NEVER watch a damn movie while driving!
Gotcha! Sorry about that. Totally agree. What sense is the NAV when you can't change it while driving? Or for that matter if you have a passenger, they can't change it. My daughter has a Lexus GS350 whatever it is and her Nav is like that too.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:17 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by garcmol View Post
My nav system is my beautiful wife and a map. No buttons and it's voice activated. She may have a touch screen, but that's none of your business!
I have one of those voice systems too. Mine directed me to the wrong city so I disabled it.
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Old 03-27-2012, 05:17 PM   #55
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I'm sure there are quite of few ZL-1 owners that won't admit it. Some will cancel and get the 2013 model especially since the delays and the new features/upgrades 2013 models get. I'm glad I'm waiting instead of rushing out to be the first on the road with one.
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Old 03-27-2012, 06:12 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by MY1STCAMAR0 View Post

If you don't mind me asking whats the youngest age whom belongs to the "Disciples"?
For our very first Disciple meeting our youngest member had graduated from college the day before she got on the plane to travel to Detroit. I am one of the oldest, if not the oldest at age ummm....ummmm....old. I no longer actively race, but I believe I can still handle a Z06 and hopefully a ZL1 on a racetrack.

Just as Camaro5 covers the full spectrum so does the group of Disciples. Our job is to represent all of you.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:25 PM   #57
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Isn't it ironic that some complain that GM doesn't listen to their customers (like us on this site) and others complain that a touch/nav systems was added for 2013.
I believe I remember many complaints about a 60k ZL1 should at least offer a better stereo with nav system. It looks to me like when GM acts on our feedback it is a problem and if they don't act on our feedback it is a problem.

My view is Thanks GM for listening and actually taking action for your customers based on your customers wants and needs. Thanks for all of the information that you provide, even though us couch auto engineer marketing people always want more and always know what is best for someone else's company.
I will get down off my soap box now and go back to checking the couch for my 2013 ZL1 savings fund. I want one of these ZL1s before the ram jet engine and flight navigation system is installed.
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:36 PM   #58
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Originally Posted by mickey123456 View Post
I just want to express how disappointing it is to be waiting for a car for months only to find out it's going to be upgraded for 2013. The fact that there will be a touchscreen on a car that maybe comes out 1-2 months later is frustrating. I don't want to hear those of you that talk about "you'll never get a car if you wait for next years updates." This is not a very intelligent comment for this situation because the 2013 comes out a couple of months after the 2012. Also, there those of you that talk about how the 2012 will give you a "permagrin." Wouldn't the 2013 do the same, but with better options? Companies shouldn't update a car that isn't even in the hands of the customers. This is a fail by GM. To me there are a couple of options, and I'd like to know what you guys would do of you were me.

1. Cancel 2012 and wait for 2013.
2. Cancel order all together, keep SS, and keep around 35k cash.
3. Wait it out and hope GM offers the touch screen as an option for the 2012 ZL1.

Primarily, I'd like to hear what you guys are doing to see if I am the only one who is disappointed.

The 1LE gets the touch screen and it's only the radio from what i've seen.
Someone correct me if i'm wrong...
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:47 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
I'm sorry you feel the way you do.

"GM Dragged their Feet" -- would you have us put the cars out early if things weren't as they should be? Let's not forget that the auto industry has been thru the most harrowing time in its history...not to mention bankruptcies not only at GM and Chrysler, but hundreds of suppliers as well...that put the ZL1 project way behind in terms of when we wanted them to hit the market.....

"Kept their mouth shut" -- I must respectfully disagree with you - I don't know of any other manufacturer that has people who spend more time on an enthusiast site and answering questions than the Camaro team and GM. Further - no matter WHAT one says, it won't keep people happy unless you tell them exactly - EXACTLY - what they want to hear....I refuse to tell anyone 'exactly what they want to hear' -- that's the quickest way I know to lose hard-earned credibility.

The interior is not just like the ZL1. True - the black wheels are the same as the ZL1 - but the hoods and front fascia are different.....let me assure you that the ZL1 does NOT look like every other Camaro from the front or side....

I'm not exactly sure what we could have done to keep you happy with the entire process - but I will say this: Everything we do - EVERYTHING we do with Camaro has the customer first and foremost in our minds.

In fact, we're taking the 'Disciples' out very shortly to talk to them about many more things - remember - the "12 Disciples of which there are 15" have been involved with the Camaro since shortly after we unveiled the Concept Camaro..........we intend to continue our dialogue and meetings with them because THEY are your voices --- and we DO care!

I can't make your decision - that's something you'll have to do.

BUT - I'd suggest that you go back and re-read what the media is saying about the car -- and perhaps that will aid in your decision.......


What he said.
I agree with Fbod..
I'm just so glad I'm fortunate enough
to even be part of the ZL1...
I feel like a school boy in love, can't
imagine the feeling when I get my beast....
so glad GM built this one...
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:53 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
I truly love to read the passion you have for these great cars that keep getting better. I too am starting to get impatient ,but I know it will be worth the wait. My biggest worry is what is wrong with these cars that is keeping them off the streets for so long, not whether or not the 2013 has Nav and mine doesn't.

It really hasn't been that long...
They just started production at the end of Jan.

Give Gm a break...Their workin their butts off
to give us a perfect ride....and Perma-Grin
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Old 03-27-2012, 08:57 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by CAM....ZL1 View Post
It really hasn't been that long...
They just started production at the end of Jan.

Give Gm a break...Their workin their butts off
to give us a perfect ride....and Perma-Grin
When you consider that they have been sitting built for over a month now, it's a long time. I already went threw the same thing with my 2010 and ended up with a lemon. I hope It doesn't go that way again.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:41 PM   #62
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Originally Posted by tmandoug1 View Post
I am not canceling my order, but I am not happy right now. What can you do though, I have to renew my loan on April 10th, starting to get that feeling in my stomach. You know the one, do I need this right now, should I wait and shop around, or put that payment into the house and just get a chevycruze off the lot,,,lol.



I'd say get the Cruze.......Not..
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:46 PM   #63
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What's cool about the ALPINE system is even the AC controls are touch screen; the FACTORY unit looks like it retains the stock AC controls and just uses the screen. So the "CLEAN" look of aftermarket is really what I'd prefer anyway. I wouldn't use MYLINK anyway, Most people use an iPod/iPhone with all their playlists anyway and both units have PANDORA so I don't see the benefit in wanting to stream music from your phone with MYLINK . You can even download your phonebook and make calls without touching your phone from the ALPINE unit...a few people on this forum have installed it and gave it good reviews
I think you lose the RETRO look of the intrerior with the ALPINE, I prefer the OEM one for that reason.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:51 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Janet View Post
For our very first Disciple meeting our youngest member had graduated from college the day before she got on the plane to travel to Detroit. I am one of the oldest, if not the oldest at age ummm....ummmm....old. I no longer actively race, but I believe I can still handle a Z06 and hopefully a ZL1 on a racetrack.

Just as Camaro5 covers the full spectrum so does the group of Disciples. Our job is to represent all of you.
Janet



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Old 03-27-2012, 09:51 PM   #65
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The point is that GM dragged their feet, kept their mouth shut and negatively surprized everyone but adding features to the 13 when the 12 is not even out yet. It's like spitting in the face of all the people that put money down and waited 5 months. Then they give the same interior and wheels to the 1LE which cost 30% less money! So I pay to have the top of the line/unique car just to find out that 5 months later it looks like a regular car. That's great marketing, unfortunately agains the customers for ZL1.

This will be my first GM car and so far I'm very dissapointed with their approach. I pray to God that it's as good as they say it is when I drive it, otherwise I'll drop it in a hurry. Maybe they'll finally do something to positively surprize us soon. I think it's overdue. Sorry, I'm running out of patience here.
This is why you don't buy a car until it is physically on the market.

Sorry, but I have no sympathy for all the "OMG I GOTTA BE THE FIRST. I HIT STATUS 7628410 TODAY" people. You made your bed and committed for whatever reason, so deal with it.

Welcome to the daily-evolving auto industry.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:55 PM   #66
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Right or wrong, I don't think people who haven't got ZL1's on order should be telling the ones who do how they are supposed to be feeling about the delay.
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Old 03-27-2012, 09:56 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by motorhead View Post
When you consider that they have been sitting built for over a month now, it's a long time. I already went threw the same thing with my 2010 and ended up with a lemon. I hope It doesn't go that way again.



Sorry to hear about your 2010, no problems with mine..
And about the " delay" I guess if there wasn't a c5 forum
There wouldn't be a delay , just like there wasn't before c5
hope that makes sense to you...meaning if you Had no info,
Just a order, when you got your car you would think it was
Right on time.




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Old 03-27-2012, 09:57 PM   #68
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Right or wrong, I don't think people who haven't got ZL1's on order should be telling the ones who do how they are supposed to be feeling about the delay.
Hence the reason i don't have a zl1 on order. To avoid predicaments like this.

I will never blindly buy a car I can't see or touch or drive in person first.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:24 PM   #69
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1) I will give up my order when someone pry's it from my dead body.
2) I could care less if it didn't even have a radio.
3) Nav is useless to me, I don't even have a cell phone. I think they are ridiculous.
4) I wouldn't care if it didn't have power windows, power seats,Onstar, or hud.
5) Less is sometimes more.
6) I don't like the wait, but I have made peace with the wait.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:32 PM   #70
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If any of you impatient first 500ers are going to cancel a rally yellow ZL1 pm me. I will take it, then I don't have to wait for 2013...SERIOUSLY....
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:39 PM   #71
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The rear camera Display in the touch screen rather than in the rear view mirror would be a nice touch. Is the touch screen worth canceling and waiting for a 2013? I dont know. It isnt as easy to accept with the delays that have almost pushed it into 2013 and the $60k price. If it was an SS, it wouldn't be as big of a deal, but + $20k for a ZL1 makes it proportionally more disappointing.
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Old 03-27-2012, 10:57 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IcePick06 View Post
I already planned on going with ALPINE's AFTERMARKET unit anyway and it looks to be WAY BETTER than any FACTORY system... so I don't care if GM offers a 7" touchscreen and MYLINK. Most aftermarket systems let you do more anyway like WATCH DVD's and use the navigation while moving and ALPINE'S unit appears to be fully integrated into the CAMARO as if it were OEM anyway:

http://www.crutchfield.com/p_700CMO9...ssi=4&skipvs=T

Highlights:
  • package includes the Alpine INA-W910 navigation receiver, with Perfect Fit dash adapter and steering wheel controls interface package for 2010-up Camaro<LI class=list-heading>General features:
  • DVD/navigation receiver with 7" touchscreen and AM/FM tuner
  • Perfect Fit dash adapter package works with any 2010-up Camaro
  • internal amp (18 watts RMS CEA-2006/50 peak x 4 channels)
  • steering wheel controls interface included
  • built-in Bluetooth® for hands-free calling
  • built-in HD Radio™
  • free lifetime traffic subscription
  • works with free PANDORA® iPhone app
  • fits double-DIN (4" tall) dash openings<LI class=list-heading>Audio/video features:
  • plays DVD Video, DVD-R/RW, DVD+R/RW, CD, and CD-R/RW
  • plays MP3, WMA, and AAC files on CD and DVD
  • 24-bit Burr-Brown digital-to-analog converter
  • compatible with Alpine's PXA-H800 IMPRINT audio processor<LI class=list-heading>Expandability:
  • built-in iPod control via USB input
  • compatible with SXV100 XM satellite radio tuner
  • inputs: USB input, A/V input, rear camera input
  • outputs: A/V output, 6-channel preamp outputs (4-volt front, rear, subwoofer)
wow they finally made one thats not too ugly!
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:00 PM   #73
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Isn't it ironic that some complain that GM doesn't listen to their customers (like us on this site) and others complain that a touch/nav systems was added for 2013.
I believe I remember many complaints about a 60k ZL1 should at least offer a better stereo with nav system. It looks to me like when GM acts on our feedback it is a problem and if they don't act on our feedback it is a problem.

My view is Thanks GM for listening and actually taking action for your customers based on your customers wants and needs. Thanks for all of the information that you provide, even though us couch auto engineer marketing people always want more and always know what is best for someone else's company.
I will get down off my soap box now and go back to checking the couch for my 2013 ZL1 savings fund. I want one of these ZL1s before the ram jet engine and flight navigation system is installed.
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:19 PM   #74
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Well I hate to say it....but due to the economy I will have to cancel my order.
I just completed a refinance on my home and had to take advantage of the low rates.
Sorry GM, but I had to take advantage of Obama's mistakes...lmao
2013 ZL1....I will see you in da future!
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Old 03-27-2012, 11:31 PM   #75
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For our very first Disciple meeting our youngest member had graduated from college the day before she got on the plane to travel to Detroit. I am one of the oldest, if not the oldest at age ummm....ummmm....old. I no longer actively race, but I believe I can still handle a Z06 and hopefully a ZL1 on a racetrack.

Just as Camaro5 covers the full spectrum so does the group of Disciples. Our job is to represent all of you.
Janet
Let me assure those of you reading this: Janet can take you around the track at Spring Mountain Motorsports Park - and most will scream like 'lil school girls. This woman can DRIVE! (she's featured in some of our old Autoshow SS videos.......)


Disciples:

8 men
7 women
2 Canadians
the rest from various states

When we started: Youngest was 20 - oldest was ........well........I ain't sayin.....

All four Generations of Camaros were represented AS WAS Firebird and Corvette. (Janet is our "Corvette" representative....) (and she's patiently awaiting her ZL1 which is sitting in Oshawa and is "Bro Zeke's" twin brother.....

We have engineers, teachers, software engineers, marketing managers, business owners, Telecommunications engineers, guidance counselors, Service managers, Website owners, Website moderators, Body shop owners, Urban Planners, drag racers, autocrossers, - we even have one that works for NASA!

...suffice it to say that each of the disciples is well-known within their enthusiast communities........and they are all 'rabid' Camaro Enthusiasts.

..and the most amazing part? THEY LOVE EACH OTHER! (they love to get together and celebrate these great cars and trucks....) They are not bashful in telling us what we need to hear........
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