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Old 04-12-2017, 10:23 AM   #1
acammer
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Aftermarket Hurst Short throw and fast shift grinds (switch to MGW/other?)

Hey guys. Quick background - I've been driving stick cars for a couple decades now, from econo-beaters to an SVT Contour, to a T56 LT1 Camaro, built Saab 9 5 wagon, and a bunch of other stuff I probably forgot. I've never had problems grinding a fast upshift until I bought my 2011 SS. When I drove this on the test drive I pulled a 1-2 grind on my very first shift. The car had 16k miles on it, and an aftermarket (the 44% reduction) Hurst short throw.

I quickly learned that I couldn't rush the shifts on this car, and I was fine. I race the car on the dragstrip or in Mexico pretty routinely. It never grinds cold or when driving easy, but if I tried to crack off hard, fast, maximum effort shifts, or if the car was getting loose and my focus was on driving and not the 1-2 shift, it would grind and/or lockout second. Usually just grind. Even on the 2-3 if I was really quick, it would "crunch" that shift.

So, after doing some extensive research I concluded that the stock clutch master cylinder was not flowing sufficient volume at sufficient speed to release the clutch before grabbing my next gear. So, I picked up a Ideal Garage modified master cylinder, and installed that a few nights ago along with a remote reservoir. Carefully bleed the system, and went out for a test drive. It definitely would let me shift faster - but I can still get a grind if I went maximum effort.

I'm at the point where I'm really frustrated with this car. I really don't think I have a synchro issue - the car shifts up and down, at high revs just fine, you just cannot go real quick with it. I can pull a relatively quick shift, but I cannot forget it's clutch then shift, and not just one motion like I've used in a dozen vehicles before.

Is it this Aftermarket Hurst shifter? I've done a lot of reading and it seems like there are a few instances of people attributing a grind to the speed of the shifter. I don't mind the feel of the shifter, it's definitely got some notchiness to it, and the left/right play is plenty sloppy, but doesn't hurt shifting, I've never grab the wrong gear with this. Would I be better off with an MGW or something else? Or do I just need to manage my expectations with this car and drive around this? I really appreciate any input you guys have - especially any experiences with the Aftermarket Hurst vs. other shifter you've used. I'm ready to go to a ZL1/1LE even if it'll settle this down and I can enjoy the car a little more.
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2011 Camaro 2SS SGM - American Racing Headers/X-pipe and cats, cutouts behind the axle, Cold Air Inductions CAI, New Era Ported TB, 169* T-stat, Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder and remote reservoir, 4.10 gears. 412rwhp. 12.59@113.4mph.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:29 PM   #2
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Some video for discussion. First clip at the drag-strip is the original master cylinder with the aftermarket Hurst. Those sound/look slow to me. Second clip is today on the way back from lunch, with the same shifter but the addition of the Ideal Garage master cylinder. 1-2 still seems slow to me, but I really can't go any faster or it'll grind. 2-3 was pretty money.

Am I just expecting too much?

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2011 Camaro 2SS SGM - American Racing Headers/X-pipe and cats, cutouts behind the axle, Cold Air Inductions CAI, New Era Ported TB, 169* T-stat, Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder and remote reservoir, 4.10 gears. 412rwhp. 12.59@113.4mph.
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Old 04-12-2017, 01:47 PM   #3
LsxDoctor
 
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I was having the same issue. I now row through the gears a few times before I drive the car (while its at idle) and no more grinding.
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Old 04-13-2017, 10:14 PM   #4
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Anybody? I don't usually try to kick stuff back to the top, but I figured this thread would get a little more action than this. Either that or your silence is telling me to deal with it, you've got what you've got.
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2011 Camaro 2SS SGM - American Racing Headers/X-pipe and cats, cutouts behind the axle, Cold Air Inductions CAI, New Era Ported TB, 169* T-stat, Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder and remote reservoir, 4.10 gears. 412rwhp. 12.59@113.4mph.
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Old 04-13-2017, 11:33 PM   #5
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Try synchromesh fluid, I also have a like new 1le shifter if you want to get rid of the mgw.

I personally tried mgw's on a cobra, gt500, and z06. None were worth a shit, ended up going back to stock on the cars. I can make a 6spd sound like a auto with stock so sure others can too
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Old 04-14-2017, 03:07 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devcon 7 View Post
Try synchromesh fluid, I also have a like new 1le shifter if you want to get rid of the mgw.

I personally tried mgw's on a cobra, gt500, and z06. None were worth a shit, ended up going back to stock on the cars. I can make a 6spd sound like a auto with stock so sure others can too
I really feel like it's a timing issue with this Hurst. It's so fast that you can't start your pull when you start your clutch step, you've gotta wait. But I haven't found a way to get my brain to tell my hand that I've gotten half way through the clutch step, so it's clutch step, then shift, and that's slow. Maybe with something a little slow I can shift it like everything else I've ever driven and be fine. I'm looking for a ZL1/1LE shifter to try at this point - I think you may be right that stock is best.
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2011 Camaro 2SS SGM - American Racing Headers/X-pipe and cats, cutouts behind the axle, Cold Air Inductions CAI, New Era Ported TB, 169* T-stat, Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder and remote reservoir, 4.10 gears. 412rwhp. 12.59@113.4mph.
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Old 04-14-2017, 06:17 PM   #7
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It's the Hurst shifter. I had the exact same problem. Pissed me off to no end. Took the Hurst shifter back out and went back to stock....no more 1-2 grind.

I'm highly dissapointed in the Hurst shifter. For a brand name like that for a shifter for a Camaro, they should have got this perfect. And it's just plain poor performance. Do some searching here and you'll find many threads about this.
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Old 04-15-2017, 10:35 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cc-rider View Post
It's the Hurst shifter. I had the exact same problem. Pissed me off to no end. Took the Hurst shifter back out and went back to stock....no more 1-2 grind.

I'm highly dissapointed in the Hurst shifter. For a brand name like that for a shifter for a Camaro, they should have got this perfect. And it's just plain poor performance. Do some searching here and you'll find many threads about this.
I appreciate that input. It really frustrates me. Spent some time out on the street last night and in the heat of the moment (especially on cold dark streets where hooking first is impossible) it's so easy to grind that stupid thing. I'm really hoping a ZL1/1LE will be the magic bullet for this. I'm actively looking!
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Old 04-23-2017, 01:43 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Devcon 7 View Post
Try synchromesh fluid, I also have a like new 1le shifter if you want to get rid of the mgw.

I personally tried mgw's on a cobra, gt500, and z06. None were worth a shit, ended up going back to stock on the cars. I can make a 6spd sound like a auto with stock so sure others can too
You are the 1st person that I have ever heard saying this about MGW shifters.
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Old 04-24-2017, 09:29 AM   #10
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You are the 1st person that I have ever heard saying this about MGW shifters.
I've not heard too much bad about MGW either. I have read in a few different threads that people had a grind issue with the Hurst Billet Plus 2. Barton is really near where I live, and I think I'm going to give their shifter a try. It's a similar amount of throw as the Hurst, but a supposedly much better product. They've got a 30 day satisfaction guarantee so kinda hard to go wrong there.

I have resigned myself to the fact that the trans may just be hosed. But it would seem like if that was the case it would grind the shifts regardless of how I shift it. I'll update once I land on a new shifter with the changes - I'm still chasing down a stock/ZL1 to try as well.
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Old 04-24-2017, 08:25 PM   #11
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I have the same issue with my hurst, I honestly hate it lol just made a post about it. I'm looking into getting a zl1 or mgw shifter. If you change out the hurst before I do let me know the difference!
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Old 04-26-2017, 01:19 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by Dbunch9 View Post
I have the same issue with my hurst, I honestly hate it lol just made a post about it. I'm looking into getting a zl1 or mgw shifter. If you change out the hurst before I do let me know the difference!
I've sourced a stock low miles SS shifter to try out - should be going in Friday night. I'll definitely update this thread with my findings. Hoping that's the "magic bullet" that'll cure this grind.

Those of you guys with aftermarket Hurst shifter that grind, how are the bushings? Mine have a lot of side to side play - which I wouldn't think would have a dramatic impact on shift engagement. But I do have a small amount of forwards/backwards play, which I would think could potentially reduce/inhibit shift action - especially when coupled with that side to side play, and reduced leverage with the shortened throw.

I meant to add earlier to this conversation - I switched to Redline D4 ATF last fall. It helped with the notchy-ness of the gearbox a little, but did nothing to impact the grind issue.
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2011 Camaro 2SS SGM - American Racing Headers/X-pipe and cats, cutouts behind the axle, Cold Air Inductions CAI, New Era Ported TB, 169* T-stat, Ideal Garage clutch master cylinder and remote reservoir, 4.10 gears. 412rwhp. 12.59@113.4mph.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:46 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acammer View Post
I've sourced a stock low miles SS shifter to try out - should be going in Friday night. I'll definitely update this thread with my findings. Hoping that's the "magic bullet" that'll cure this grind.

Those of you guys with aftermarket Hurst shifter that grind, how are the bushings? Mine have a lot of side to side play - which I wouldn't think would have a dramatic impact on shift engagement. But I do have a small amount of forwards/backwards play, which I would think could potentially reduce/inhibit shift action - especially when coupled with that side to side play, and reduced leverage with the shortened throw.

I meant to add earlier to this conversation - I switched to Redline D4 ATF last fall. It helped with the notchy-ness of the gearbox a little, but did nothing to impact the grind issue.
I just changed the bushings on mine last Wednesday. Before, a good 1 1/2" - 2" of side to side play and 1/2" forward/backward play. After, 3/4" side to side play and 1/4" forward/backward. Other than that the shifts feel the same, still rough going into gears and rattles WOT. Haven't had a chance for a fast 1-2 shift yet so idk if it grinds anymore. Went to a local dealer to see if they would sell just the stick for zl1 shifter since the housing seems the same as the SS but I have to buy the whole assembly, woulda grabbed just the stick if I could have.
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Old 04-26-2017, 02:49 PM   #14
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I hated the Hurst that came with the car, switched to MGW and never missed a 2-3 to this day.
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