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Old 04-01-2012, 09:35 AM   #1
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160 degree Tstat question

If I'm running a ud pulley would a 160 degree Tstat be worth puttin in? Next time I go to the dyno I'm going to have the fans programmed to come on sooner but I've heard this Tstat does nothing? Advice?
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:14 AM   #2
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I have been told by some top tuners not to use them as these engines are designed to run at the warmer temps, take that for what its worth.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:16 AM   #3
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I've heard the same, it does nothing. What I've been told by mechanics is that its possible to be more of a problem than helpful.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:15 AM   #4
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I've read to where the LS engines like the higher temps but I was curious with the ud pulley and slower water pump rotation would it put it back to the normal operation temps or be a headache. 2 for no and 1 lsx doc for yes. Other opinions?
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:25 AM   #5
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LOL, I put a 160 degree in ever LSx car I have ever owned and built, worth every penny! I've been working on these motors for about 13 years.

Motors running 'higher temps is good for emissions and that's it. Why do you think people let they cars cool off between runs at the track and get better times? Following you guys' logic you car should get faster the more it gets hot lapped and heat soaked.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:48 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The LSX Dr. View Post
I have the same set up on my Silverado with no problems. With the combination of the underdrive pulley and lower temp t-stat it puts the engine in the optimum operating temp. Keep in mind there are variables on what the climate is where you live.

With a 160 T-stat the engine will typically run in the mid 180s.
The stock T-stat is rated at 186. The engine will run a bit over 200. There is the ability to fine tune operating temperature with fan settings.
Told by all tuners aluminum engines run best 190-205 for best power,so yeah set fans to be on 185-200 or so as stat will run in that range anyway. My old ls1 ran right at 190(fan 1) and 200(fan 2). was good for 5 hp
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Old 04-01-2012, 02:17 PM   #7
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http://performanceunlimited.com/cobr...hermostat.html

Years ago I ran across the above link. Near the bottom of the page was the reason I've never ran a thermostat colder than 180 (stock on my Impala SS was 195). But my cars have always been high mileage daily drivers. Being in the mid west, during the winter, even the 180 wouldn't allow the cabin to get warm even after my 26 mile drive to work.
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Old 04-01-2012, 03:56 PM   #8
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I read your link and it makes a good arguement and I didnt consider this until I did the UD pulley and noticed it runs a lil bit warmer and its going to get real hot here in NC pretty soon. I figure for 30 bucks cant hurt.
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:00 PM   #9
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What about your ring gap? Aren't you running your rings at a larger gap at a lower temperature? Seems like a bad idea.

Alos, heat soak is more about the intake temps not the block temps, no?

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LOL, I put a 160 degree in ever LSx car I have ever owned and built, worth every penny! I've been working on these motors for about 13 years.

Motors running 'higher temps is good for emissions and that's it. Why do you think people let they cars cool off between runs at the track and get better times? Following you guys' logic you car should get faster the more it gets hot lapped and heat soaked.
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:43 PM   #10
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What about your ring gap? Aren't you running your rings at a larger gap at a lower temperature? Seems like a bad idea.

Alos, heat soak is more about the intake temps not the block temps, no?
What most people don't understand is that you run a 160 degree thermostat so your car runs at 175-185 degrees.

A 160 degree thermostat

WILL NOT

make your car run at 160 degrees.

It means the thermostat is closed until 160 degrees. At 160 degrees the thermostat begins to slowly open and isn't fully open until about 185 degrees (put one in a pot of boiling water and watch it work, it's actually pretty cool).

The absolute coolest my car runs is maybe 177ish and the hottest it runs is about 186ish.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IndeedSS1 View Post
http://performanceunlimited.com/cobr...hermostat.html

Years ago I ran across the above link. Near the bottom of the page was the reason I've never ran a thermostat colder than 180 (stock on my Impala SS was 195). But my cars have always been high mileage daily drivers. Being in the mid west, during the winter, even the 180 wouldn't allow the cabin to get warm even after my 26 mile drive to work.
Reading that article it looks like even more of a reason to run a 160 degree thermostat. But then again, it also looks like they don't understand how a thermostat works.

Quote:
That "magic" number lies in the 175-180 degree range, which requires a 180 degree thermostat..The all too commonly used 160 degree thermostat is way too low to be considered for performance or engine longevity.
Like I said earlier a 160 degree will put you temps in the 175-185 degree range. Exactly where their graph says is the best.
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:48 PM   #11
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How can any tuner say that running an LS motor at 185* is bad? Lol

Thats rediculas!
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Old 04-01-2012, 04:54 PM   #12
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How can any tuner say that running an LS motor at 185* is bad? Lol

Thats rediculas!
Those must be some really good tuners!

My tuner puts a 160 degree thermostat in EVERY car. His personal 5th gen runs 9s in the 1/4 and he is shooting for mid 8s this year.
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Old 04-01-2012, 06:44 PM   #13
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Ok SUX2BU and LSX doc sold me. 160 tstat ordered. Thanks for all the opinions and such.
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:19 PM   #14
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:30 PM   #15
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How fast has he gone in these cars?
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Old 04-01-2012, 07:42 PM   #16
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How fast has he gone in these cars?
You would have to ask him, he does a lot of big builds. I remember reading his take on the thermostat, and it makes sense. Like him or not, he is a well respected builder and tuner, as you know.
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Old 04-01-2012, 08:11 PM   #17
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We suggest the 160 t-stat as a decent mod. The cars run 175-185 most of the time, heat up just as fast as the stock t-stat and have no bad affect. We've specialized in building just LSX based car for over 10 years.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:00 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by 2012REDSS View Post
If I'm running a ud pulley would a 160 degree Tstat be worth puttin in? Next time I go to the dyno I'm going to have the fans programmed to come on sooner but I've heard this Tstat does nothing? Advice?
I went with a 180 and a UD pulley. Most all the time mine is at 186 degrees. So from what I'm reading here I'm in the sweet spot.
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:45 PM   #19
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We have gone 10.1 in and L99 camaro with stock bottom end, and yes, it has a 160 stat. We are also on the south where it gets over 100* pretty often in the summer so we rather a car run 185* in the staging lanes rather than 225*.......

Lowering temps to be able to run more timing is what its all about, theres no voodoo involved
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:21 PM   #20
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I see you quoted me - but you did not speak to any of my points. I agree your engine will run hotter than the rating on the thermostat. You are still running it cooler than the design intent. meaning your ring gap is larger, meaning less compression and more blow by. Heat soak is a refference to IM temperature so not sure what your point was in refference to the coolant temp. Some tuners will put a a 160 thermostat in forced induction cars to prevent thermal shock when engaged.... But everyone has an opinion and ya gotta believe in something. If 160 tstat is your magic rabbit foot it likely won't hurt anything, or at least I hope not. You could be causing piston slap with the extra clearance. Eh, No worries.

Ps - I do realize this entire thread is about the v8 - but the v6 has proven to make more power when running hotter not cooler. Likely for the reasons above.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SUX2BU View Post
What most people don't understand is that you run a 160 degree thermostat so your car runs at 175-185 degrees.

A 160 degree thermostat

WILL NOT

make your car run at 160 degrees.

It means the thermostat is closed until 160 degrees. At 160 degrees the thermostat begins to slowly open and isn't fully open until about 185 degrees (put one in a pot of boiling water and watch it work, it's actually pretty cool).

The absolute coolest my car runs is maybe 177ish and the hottest it runs is about 186ish.



Reading that article it looks like even more of a reason to run a 160 degree thermostat. But then again, it also looks like they don't understand how a thermostat works.



Like I said earlier a 160 degree will put you temps in the 175-185 degree range. Exactly where their graph says is the best.
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Last edited by formare; 04-01-2012 at 10:32 PM.
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Old 04-01-2012, 11:34 PM   #21
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I see you quoted me - but you did not speak to any of my points. I agree your engine will run hotter than the rating on the thermostat. You are still running it cooler than the design intent. meaning your ring gap is larger, meaning less compression and more blow by. Heat soak is a refference to IM temperature so not sure what your point was in refference to the coolant temp. Some tuners will put a a 160 thermostat in forced induction cars to prevent thermal shock when engaged.... But everyone has an opinion and ya gotta believe in something. If 160 tstat is your magic rabbit foot it likely won't hurt anything, or at least I hope not. You could be causing piston slap with the extra clearance. Eh, No worries.

Ps - I do realize this entire thread is about the v8 - but the v6 has proven to make more power when running hotter not cooler. Likely for the reasons above.
Like I said earlier, these motors were intended to run hot for emissions, not because they make the most power. I have been racing LSx motors for over a decade and my experience is that they always run better at 185 degrees than at 210+ degrees. If your vast experience with these motors shows that they run better at higher temperatures, then by all means share your data. Maybe I have been doing it all wrong for over 13 years.

We have composite intakes so the intake manifold getting heat soaked isn't as big a deal as it was on old school cars. Heat soaked just means that something has more heat in it. Just because you use it to describe the intake manifold doesn't mean that's the only thing that can get heat soaked. When I'm done with a 1/4 mile run I park my car, shut it off and pop the hood. I don't do this to cool the intake, I do this to cool the whole motor/cooling system and not let it get heat soaked by just idling there. Just like all racers do at the track, but maybe they should listen to you and keep their cars running with the hoods shut so they can stay the the correct higher operating temperature.
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Old 04-02-2012, 12:37 AM   #22
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To be honest, it's one of those things where you just don't know who to trust. Both sides offer valid points with logical conclusions. I would easily trust Ted Jannetty with my car, as I would with Lethal. And SUX2BU, being such an experienced racer, I'm sure has picked up on one or more tips to ensure his engine runs/performs as well it can.

So I'm really interested to see if anyone else chimes in. I haven't picked a side yet, but I will offer something for you to think about.

Now apply what I'm about to say directly to this instance, and not to some example outside this discussion.

If something (such as a thermostat) is extraordinarily crucial to the performance and life of an engine, and if one product in particular has been deemed to be unequivocally "bad" for that engine, do you really think seasoned individuals would still be using it? Better yet, do you think it would still be in production?
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:52 AM   #23
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I know on all the old stuff I have played with running a 160 worked very well but it was 100+ outside where i was at. If you live where it is 80 or so on race day/nights I bet the OEM stat would be fine with a bit of a cool after a run.
I think it comes down to what environment your car is in. In Alaska I do not think a 160 be that good. Just my 2c
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Old 04-02-2012, 07:03 AM   #24
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I only offered the other point of view for people to think about. There is more mention of the track than longevity. Perhaps it just comes down to what's more important to the individual.

Just out of curiousity, what does your daily driving engine temps look like with a 160 thermostat? On my L67, going from a 195 to a 180 and adjusting the fans kept the temps right at 180.
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Old 04-02-2012, 08:06 AM   #25
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How fast has he gone in these cars?
Faster than most go with Fully Built motors.

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