Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
autoguy
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics

Camaro Z/28 Forum - Z/28 Specific Topics Discussions related to the 5th gen Camaro Z/28 model

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-09-2012, 11:13 PM   #201
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
yadda yadda yadda....over the years GM and Chevy got all ass backward. They placed SS badges on alot of models. Some of which they should have not been. The Z28 got trumped out by an SLP upgrade SS? It was an agreement, an enterprise. Not in the best interest of the Camaro as a whole. As a result the Camaro died because of lack of forsight and interest by it's manufacturer. It was stale and not contemporary within the buyers interest. The competitior stayed focused and continued to meet the market demand and still remains a lineage. So sorry for us Camaro guys.
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-10-2012, 12:22 AM   #202
Bhobbs


 
Bhobbs's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 2,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
yadda yadda yadda....over the years GM and Chevy got all ass backward. They placed SS badges on alot of models. Some of which they should have not been. The Z28 got trumped out by an SLP upgrade SS? It was an agreement, an enterprise. Not in the best interest of the Camaro as a whole. As a result the Camaro died because of lack of forsight and interest by it's manufacturer. It was stale and not contemporary within the buyers interest. The competitior stayed focused and continued to meet the market demand and still remains a lineage. So sorry for us Camaro guys.

That's why I think it would be a mistake for the Z28 to use the LS3. It would just blur the lines even more. The Z28 needs to be a stand alone car to the rest of the Camaro line up.
Bhobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 08:09 PM   #203
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
That's why I think it would be a mistake for the Z28 to use the LS3. It would just blur the lines even more. The Z28 needs to be a stand alone car to the rest of the Camaro line up.
Ok. Keyword is validation. LS3, LS7, LS9, LSA...none of which have had any mechanical changes that have changed the motors performance. Adding GMPP items, cross changing parts, or beefing up in any way will take a large effort by GM to re-validate the motor. I am not convinced they have the desire to do so. All of the LS family engines have been twisted and improved to make astounding levels of HP.....aftermarket. The LS3 can easily make HP numbers as a stock LS7. But, a stock 426 HP LS3 aint' gonna cut the mustard in a Z28. And a magical HP advertised increase such as has been done before within the GM camp on a motor that has not been upgraded won't do it either. There needs to be a concerted effort to A) Mix and match a LS3 up to snuff...or do whatever ot takes to put a LS7 in a Z28 to make it viable. There are no other silver bullets to be found within the LS family.
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 08:33 PM   #204
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,214
I agree.

If they did not increase power in the GS Vette LS3 they are just not going to do it. The LS engines are done in the not too distant future. A 5Gen Z28 either has a now available LS7 or a new GenV engine, or the 5Gen will be the only Camaro Generation without a Z28, and that would just be WRONG!
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-11-2012, 09:38 PM   #205
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
Agreed. Either they make a bold step and take a LS in one fashion or another to the skunk works and tweek it, or they sit on their hands and wait until the new DI motors arrive in a model upgrade. Shall we sit idly by and be complacent and satisfied while Ford has already raised the anty? What say you Chevy?
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 01:07 PM   #206
Bhobbs


 
Bhobbs's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 2,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
Ok. Keyword is validation. LS3, LS7, LS9, LSA...none of which have had any mechanical changes that have changed the motors performance. Adding GMPP items, cross changing parts, or beefing up in any way will take a large effort by GM to re-validate the motor. I am not convinced they have the desire to do so. All of the LS family engines have been twisted and improved to make astounding levels of HP.....aftermarket. The LS3 can easily make HP numbers as a stock LS7. But, a stock 426 HP LS3 aint' gonna cut the mustard in a Z28. And a magical HP advertised increase such as has been done before within the GM camp on a motor that has not been upgraded won't do it either. There needs to be a concerted effort to A) Mix and match a LS3 up to snuff...or do whatever ot takes to put a LS7 in a Z28 to make it viable. There are no other silver bullets to be found within the LS family.

If Ford can modify their 5.0 to the 302, why can't Chevy modify the LS3. I mean at the least, a modified LS3 in the Z28 may work out. If they wanted to do the bare minimum to make the Z28 have higher HP but not piss off the Vette guys, then why couldn't they do it?

Like I said before, the greatest Camaro ever doesn't even get its own engine. It's a transplant from another car. Wtf is up with that?
Bhobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 03:01 PM   #207
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
If Ford can modify their 5.0 to the 302, why can't Chevy modify the LS3. I mean at the least, a modified LS3 in the Z28 may work out. If they wanted to do the bare minimum to make the Z28 have higher HP but not piss off the Vette guys, then why couldn't they do it?

Like I said before, the greatest Camaro ever doesn't even get its own engine. It's a transplant from another car. Wtf is up with that?
Obviously GM has "more than" learned its lesson on being frugal.
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 04:24 PM   #208
LOWDOWN
Account Suspended
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,162
The rationale, or better stated as "Business Case", at this moment for a "unique" Z28 engine that has to pass all the hoops 'n hurdles in place today (vs. 1966-7) for an engine with a very finite life expectancy in a Gen-5 Camaro, simply doesn't exist...

So..."off-the-shelf" is the only answer, unless and until the next-Gen SBC (aka LT1 family) appears. Which should make their debut in the upcoming C-7 Vette and next-Gen trucks.

Could a Corvette-inspired high-horse n/a LT1 be readied for the final act of the Gen-5 Camaro as a Z28 motor-vator? I suppose so...

Failing that, "what's on the shelf", as an LS-based OEM-ready engine? And Chevy Performance (LS varient) crate engines don't count. Which leaves LS3 (SS-1LE)/LS7/LSA (ZL1)/LS9 (NGH)

Naturally-aspirated, high-horse certified/validated choices, for a vehicle with only MY '13.5-'14-'15 ahead, are few at this time.

If emissions compliance for the LS7 in a car the size/weight of the Camaro is a genuine issue, then our best bet for a Gen-5 ZEE is an early arrival of the LT1...
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 05:16 PM   #209
Bhobbs


 
Bhobbs's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 2,758
How would emissions be any harder for the Camaro than the Corvette?
Bhobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 05:53 PM   #210
LOWDOWN
Account Suspended
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,162
Well, idle test is marginal (source elsewhere on this forum), and added curb weight has to be accelerated...
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 05:57 PM   #211
Bhobbs


 
Bhobbs's Avatar
 
Drives: 2015 SS 1LE Red Hot, 1970 Chevelle
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Chino, CA
Posts: 2,758
Quote:
Originally Posted by LOWDOWN View Post
Well, idle test is marginal (source elsewhere on this forum), and added curb weight has to be accelerated...
So the issue is the engine working harder to drag the extra weight around?
Bhobbs is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 06:15 PM   #212
LOWDOWN
Account Suspended
 
Drives: Daily
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,162
That's only one factor, but it IS a factor...more "work" equals more fuel equals more potential emissions...
LOWDOWN is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-12-2012, 09:36 PM   #213
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhobbs View Post
If Ford can modify their 5.0 to the 302, why can't Chevy modify the LS3. I mean at the least, a modified LS3 in the Z28 may work out. If they wanted to do the bare minimum to make the Z28 have higher HP but not piss off the Vette guys, then why couldn't they do it?

Like I said before, the greatest Camaro ever doesn't even get its own engine. It's a transplant from another car. Wtf is up with that?
Well, assuming you are a Chevy guy as you report owning several, then you would already know Chevy and GM uses a corporate approach to engines and parts assemblies which are used throughout brands and lines. That was always a thing I liked about Chevy years ago about the interchangeabilty factor with parts. But, then is not now, and we don't have the wide arrray of choices in engines like in yesteryear. Today one has to dance with who brought you there. Chevy motors today are compilations of different materials built around the same basic blueprint, to meet different demands. It's a wiches brew. The LS7 is a stand alone LS. My understanding is the Ford model is a modular design that can be built upward, without different material used in connection rods, pistons, valves etc fom one version to another like the LS family.... I haven't spent much time on the subject but that's my basic understanding of the Ford engine. Like back when, a steel crank, forged rod's and pistons, build from the bottom up in any way you like and it will be a solid platform to move upward from. GMPP has the off road stuff....but no warranty. The factory LS's are concocted from specially blended materials. Validation is a time consuming and expensive measure GM does not wish to undertake. Put one different set of valve springs in a factory LS and they have to spend millions and counless hours testing the motor to meet fail safe standards. IMHO Chevy needs to address this issue within the corporate ladder and modify this seemingly unsurpassable hurdle it has in the engine development department to quickly adapt and modify a engine without so much red tape. I know I am wrong and don't wan't to be a downer but why could Ford make the adjustment so quickly in the power numbers department without a GG tax confounds me.
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 06:17 PM   #214
shaffe

 
Drives: 2012 Focus
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Burr Ridge
Posts: 1,216
Now dumb question here, and I'm not trying to stir the pot I swear .

Wouldn't a 427 powered camaro kind of go against what the Z28 was all about back in the day? That seems to be the consensus I see here is that people want a new Z28 to be what is was back in the day, and or a direct competitor to the boss.
shaffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 06:31 PM   #215
ChrisBlair
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 3,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaffe View Post
Now dumb question here, and I'm not trying to stir the pot I swear .

Wouldn't a 427 powered camaro kind of go against what the Z28 was all about back in the day? That seems to be the consensus I see here is that people want a new Z28 to be what is was back in the day, and or a direct competitor to the boss.
Kind of? For starters, the Camaro is way overweight as it is. When I look at it, my eyes see 'Camaro'. When I drive it, my brains say 'Chevelle'. It doesn't need a 427. It needs a diet

The Z/28 should be lighter than an SS. Less sound-deadening, etc. It should be Chevy's response to the Mustang Laguna Seca package. Z/28 buyers should be sacrificing a few creature comforts for more performance.
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 06:42 PM   #216
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,214
When was a Z28 made lighter than other Camaros?

It did not have a BB in it otherwise it could be ordered with everything, but an auto, vert. and air. The new 427 LS7 is a high revving SB just like the 302 was. Yes the Camaro is bigger for the 5Gen, but that doesn't keep it from being a Z28. Take a look at what Pedders has done with this chassis. The 5Gen has a very rigid chassis which is exactly what you need for a brilliant handling car.
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 07:11 PM   #217
ChrisBlair
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 3,976
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
When was a Z28 made lighter than other Camaros?

It did not have a BB in it otherwise it could be ordered with everything, but an auto, vert. and air. The new 427 LS7 is a high revving SB just like the 302 was. Yes the Camaro is bigger for the 5Gen, but that doesn't keep it from being a Z28. Take a look at what Pedders has done with this chassis. The 5Gen has a very rigid chassis which is exactly what you need for a brilliant handling car.
I didn't post that it was, actually. However.

I said the Z/28 should be lighter than an SS. We're not going to be able to expect Chevy to take a 283 and a 327 and mash them together this time. The original Camaro SS had a 350 as the smallest engine available, and later that year offered a 396. In the 21st Century, I doubt we can ever expect such a broad range of V8 engine choices ever again on one model car. The other way to increase power:weight is by removing pounds

The Z/28 was meant for racing in the Trans Am series, and you would agree that lighter cars would have an advantage in power to weight, I would bet Also makes them potentially more nimble

And originally, the Z/28 could not be had "with everything". You could not get air conditioning or an auto trans on the first Z/28s as you mention.

Certainly you can see how a car with a 302 CID engine, no air conditioning, and no auto trans at least had the potential to be lighter than a car with an auto trans, 350 CID mill, and a/c. Even the wheels were DZ specific on the original Z/28s
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 07:40 PM   #218
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
I didn't post that it was, actually. However.

I said the Z/28 should be lighter than an SS. We're not going to be able to expect Chevy to take a 283 and a 327 and mash them together this time. The original Camaro SS had a 350 as the smallest engine available, and later that year offered a 396. In the 21st Century, I doubt we can ever expect such a broad range of V8 engine choices ever again on one model car. The other way to increase power:weight is by removing pounds

The Z/28 was meant for racing in the Trans Am series, and you would agree that lighter cars would have an advantage in power to weight, I would bet Also makes them potentially more nimble

And originally, the Z/28 could not be had "with everything". You could not get air conditioning or an auto trans on the first Z/28s as you mention.

Certainly you can see how a car with a 302 CID engine, no air conditioning, and no auto trans at least had the potential to be lighter than a car with an auto trans, 350 CID mill, and a/c. Even the wheels were DZ specific on the original Z/28s
Sorry my question was rhetorical. Yes a lighter car is better, as long as it has a very rigid chassis with which the suspension can be at its optimum.
My point was that the 5Gen should not be without a Z28 because of its weight. It, the 5Gen can and does perform very well. And adding the LS7 will make it a Boss eater, which was its very mission many years ago.

BTW, a 1st Gen Camaro SS350 weighed very much the same as a Z28. Also the Z28 wheels were 15" vs. the 14" on an SS350.
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 07:49 PM   #219
ChrisBlair
Account Suspended
 
Drives: 1970 Buick, 2012 1SS LS3
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 3,976
Yes, about 3500 lbs. What the Z/28 lost in engine weight it made up in underpinnings...the F41(?) wasn't a light package if I remember right.
ChrisBlair is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 08:15 PM   #220
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisBlair View Post
Yes, about 3500 lbs. What the Z/28 lost in engine weight it made up in underpinnings...the F41(?) wasn't a light package if I remember right.


So let's get GM to build a 5Gen Z28 so the 5Gen has what the other Gens have all had!
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 09:01 PM   #221
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
As much as we would like to bring up nostalgia, Trans Am, Mark Donahue, 302's, or anything with that period, it has no real meaning to today other than some linking of legacy to a storied name....Z28.. The LSA runs and feels just a old time big block rat motor. The LS7, if you have ever been around one that is tweeked a bit, has a devilsh high whinning, screaming, devilish noise to it. It's a screamin demon small block for sure. We want NA in a Z28, not SC. Do not confuse CID #'s with motor configuration, a LS7 is a small block of the latest technology as there ever was one. Yes, weight's an issue, and a dead horse of topical discussion. Add on's with the ZL1, well thought out and planned within a pound conscious development program to bring the best beef to the table in it's leanest form, brings the ZL1 into a 1970 Chevelle LS6 range with an automatic. Not acceptable for a Z28. I know thats clear to all of us and it's no new news. We have discussed this time and over again. The car has been built here several times over...and is ready for delivery, GM just needs to give the green light. This topic is like Groundhog day....part 2, and 3, and 4...and.....
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 09:11 PM   #222
2cnd chance
It Will Be Mine
 
2cnd chance's Avatar
 
Drives: A Z06 or a 2015 1LE?
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: The Road
Posts: 6,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
As much as we would like to bring up nostalgia, Trans Am, Mark Donahue, 302's, or anything with that period, it has no real meaning to today other than some linking of legacy to a storied name....Z28.. The LSA runs and feels just a old time big block rat motor. The LS7, if you have ever been around one that is tweeked a bit, has a devilsh high whinning, screaming, devilish noise to it. It's a screamin demon small block for sure. We want NA in a Z28, not SC. Do not confuse CID #'s with motor configuration, a LS7 is a small block of the latest technology as there ever was one. Yes, weight's an issue, and a dead horse of topical discussion. Add on's with the ZL1, well thought out and planned within a pound conscious development program to bring the best beef to the table in it's leanest form, brings the ZL1 into a 1970 Chevelle LS6 range with an automatic. Not acceptable for a Z28. I know thats clear to all of us and it's no new news. We have discussed this time and over again. The car has been built here several times over...and is ready for delivery, GM just needs to give the green light. This topic is like Groundhog day....part 2, and 3, and 4...and.....
Does that make us Bill Murray?
2cnd chance is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:00 PM   #223
wildpaws

 
wildpaws's Avatar
 
Drives: 1999 Blazer
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Sorry my question was rhetorical. Yes a lighter car is better, as long as it has a very rigid chassis with which the suspension can be at its optimum.
My point was that the 5Gen should not be without a Z28 because of its weight. It, the 5Gen can and does perform very well. And adding the LS7 will make it a Boss eater, which was its very mission many years ago.

BTW, a 1st Gen Camaro SS350 weighed very much the same as a Z28. Also the Z28 wheels were 15" vs. the 14" on an SS350.
All true, and as you mentioned in your first response, back in the day no vert was available on the Z/28 either. Now while a SS350 vert with auto and ac would be heavier than a Z/28, you are correct that it had nothing to do with the Z/28 being made lighter in any way, it was just that the SS was heavier due to options ordered that could not be ordered on the Z/28 (again, exactly as you said). You can certainly count me as one of the more "purist" Z/28 fanatics on this forum, but I can get behind the LS7 fifth gen. Z/28 right away as a fifth gen version with it's added weight needs something like the LS7 to counteract that weight in a higher HP/torque, higher revving NA engine to make a good fifth gen Z/28. I just don't see a production LS3 being enough HP/torque for a practical fifth gen Z/28 (and forget about wilder LS3 crate engines, they are a long way from ever being certified for a production vehicle). So if you don't go with an LS3, you want a NA engine so that excludes the LSA and LS9, what production Chevy/GM engine does that leave for an honest 5th gen Z/28? Hmmmmm, the only practical choice I see left is...................................the LS7!
Clyde
wildpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:07 PM   #224
wildpaws

 
wildpaws's Avatar
 
Drives: 1999 Blazer
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Richmond, VA
Posts: 1,214
Quote:
Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro View Post
As much as we would like to bring up nostalgia, Trans Am, Mark Donahue, 302's, or anything with that period, it has no real meaning to today other than some linking of legacy to a storied name....Z28.. The LSA runs and feels just a old time big block rat motor. The LS7, if you have ever been around one that is tweeked a bit, has a devilsh high whinning, screaming, devilish noise to it. It's a screamin demon small block for sure. We want NA in a Z28, not SC. Do not confuse CID #'s with motor configuration, a LS7 is a small block of the latest technology as there ever was one. Yes, weight's an issue, and a dead horse of topical discussion. Add on's with the ZL1, well thought out and planned within a pound conscious development program to bring the best beef to the table in it's leanest form, brings the ZL1 into a 1970 Chevelle LS6 range with an automatic. Not acceptable for a Z28. I know thats clear to all of us and it's no new news. We have discussed this time and over again. The car has been built here several times over...and is ready for delivery, GM just needs to give the green light. This topic is like Groundhog day....part 2, and 3, and 4...and.....
That little short clip of the L28 that Pete posted, where it comes toward you then stops and backs up, is incredibly awesome to hear. Absolutely, positively screaming SBC at idle complete with big cam lope, man that takes me back and I'll bet an LS7 would sound and feel so right in a fifth gen with Z/28 emblems.
Clyde
wildpaws is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-13-2012, 10:09 PM   #225
OldScoolCamaro


 
Drives: Camaro's, always have, always will.
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Home of the brave
Posts: 4,858
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2cnd chance View Post
Does that make us Bill Murray?


...yes, ...in a weird, bizzare way, I think it does....
__________________
In Scott We Trust...all others must show proof.
OldScoolCamaro is offline   Reply With Quote
 
Reply

Tags
wtf is a z28?

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OK, I need Z/28 Therapy PLEASE HELP!!! Fandango Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 15 02-27-2010 01:00 PM
Why do you think the Z28 is the higher tier? The_Blur Camaro ZL1 Forum - ZL1 Specific Topics 181 10-14-2009 08:08 PM
Camaro SS manual shipment (not production) hold officially confirmed by GM (UPDATED) Tran 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 715 07-23-2009 11:05 PM
Top Trim? SS or Z/28 moto-camaro 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 22 04-13-2009 06:05 PM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:49 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.