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Old 04-04-2012, 07:15 PM   #1
ssmike
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Lost 3mm front and 6mm rear of drop after bush timing/alignment

I installed Pedders xa's over the winter and set the drop at 1 1/4" (32mm). The starting (OE) ride height was 686mm front and 698mm rear. The new ride height after installing the xa's was 654 front and 667 rear. I then drove the car to the alignment shop and they performed the Pedders recommended bush timing procedure and the aligned the car. When I got home it looked like the ride height was a little higher than before. I measured and sure enough the ride height came up by 3 mm front and 6mm rear. It now measures 657mm front and 673mm rear. Is this normal? If so, will it affect the alignment if I drop it the 3 and 6 to get it back to where the initial ride height was?
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:53 PM   #2
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I don't know if this is normal, since I didn't measure my final ride height until after the alignment, but if you change the ride height, it will affect the alignment. Now, is 3mm and 6mm enough to make a noticable difference, I don't know. I suggest you call or PM JusticePete at Pedders. He will know for sure.
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Old 04-04-2012, 07:55 PM   #3
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Just sent him a pm
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Old 04-06-2012, 07:58 AM   #4
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Anyone else have an opinion here? Pete? Rob? Where are you guys? I'd like to make the adjustment today if it isn't going to affect my alignment. Thanks!
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:24 AM   #5
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Think of it like a lever. When you lower the car, the lower control arm in the rear moves up. The top of the tire moves inward of the fender. Now, you have the car aligned/timed. When they bring the camber back to account for the angle change, the top of the tire moves outward of the fender. Those little changes will affect the ride height.

If you now adjust the coilovers to get the measurements you had, you're moving the top of the tire inward again and changing the camber.

Same in the front. When the adjust your camber, they bring the top of the tire outward which does the same thing.

Hope that helps some and it happened to me as well.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:37 AM   #6
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I kinda thought that was the case. I heard of others who had theirs timed and aligned and ended up lower. I guess it depends on where the camber ends up. I think another clue may be that I installed Coilovers and set the front clevis bolts all the way in , full negative camber. I also replaced the rear camber eccentrics and roughly set the camber.

The front cambers were -2.3L/-1.7R and the rears were -1.3L/-1.2R. So adjusting to near 0 rear and -.8 front would account for the change in ride height I guess. It's starting to make sense now!

Problem is, I would like the ride height lower. I wish I would have known this would happen so I would have set the initial ride height lower to compensate! I couldn't be there at the alignment shop to recheck the ride height so it is what it is I guess!

Thanks for your help. I'd still like to here from Pedders so I'll patiently await their reply!
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:49 AM   #7
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I hear you. Now, if you have the Pedders eccentric bolts in the rear you should be able to come down some more. But again, that'll affect your camber/toe.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:56 AM   #8
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Right! That's my question, will I need to re-align if I come down another 6mm? My guess is yes but I don't know just how much 6mm will affect camber!
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:10 AM   #9
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Book answer will be get another alignment and time the bushings again.

I can tell you that I didn't get mine realigned after some changes I made and I smoked a pair of P Zeros on a trip to Florida.

Alignments are cheaper than P Zeros
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:15 AM   #10
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Yea, you're right! I'll probably leave it the way it is for now. I may end up getting a set of caster eccentrics for the front to get the 8.0 setting up front, then I'll re-do!
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:20 AM   #11
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I lowered my previous car 1/2 inch without needing an alignment. I can't see 6mm throwing anything off enough to justify a new alignment.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:58 AM   #12
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Yea, you're right! I'll probably leave it the way it is for now. I may end up getting a set of caster eccentrics for the front to get the 8.0 setting up front, then I'll re-do!
Caster will improve, but dont expect 8*. I got between 6-7*. Probably 1-2* improvement over what you have now. You may get lucky and reach 8.
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Old 04-17-2012, 01:23 PM   #13
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Can you post your before and after alignment specs?
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Old 04-17-2012, 08:00 PM   #14
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I'll post them up tomorrow night! Thanks!
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Old 04-18-2012, 10:17 AM   #15
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This timing business is such a pain in the butt. I never had to time any of my previous cars. Does anyone sell replacement bushings so that you don't have to ever time them again? Something that doesn't use the ferrile cores like the OEM stuff?
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:54 PM   #16
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This timing business is such a pain in the butt. I never had to time any of my previous cars. Does anyone sell replacement bushings so that you don't have to ever time them again? Something that doesn't use the ferrile cores like the OEM stuff?
Give JusticePete a PM, Pedders makes a complete bushing package just for this!
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Old 04-18-2012, 06:59 PM   #17
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OK Pete, here's the printout! Keep in mind that this was a fresh XA coilover install as well as rear camber bolts which I did myself. The cambers in the front were set full negative when I tightened down the clevis bolts. The rear camber bolts were just rough adjusted.

Also, notice that he didn't achieve the .2 toe in the rear and is out of spec but he has them green. I gave him the new Pedders Aggressive street specs to go by! Thanks for your help!
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Old 04-18-2012, 07:36 PM   #18
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just a guess here but , drive the car and measure again and mark exactly where ur wheels are so u can get in the same spot , i would think it wont be exactly the same all the time but like i said just a guess
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:13 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmike View Post
OK Pete, here's the printout! Keep in mind that this was a fresh XA coilover install as well as rear camber bolts which I did myself. The cambers in the front were set full negative when I tightened down the clevis bolts. The rear camber bolts were just rough adjusted.

Also, notice that he didn't achieve the .2 toe in the rear and is out of spec but he has them green. I gave him the new Pedders Aggressive street specs to go by! Thanks for your help!

Mike,

The change in ride heights is directly related to the change in camber front and rear so you have NO WORRIES! Now the important question. How does your Camaro drive now?
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Old 04-19-2012, 12:26 PM   #20
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Mike,

The change in ride heights is directly related to the change in camber front and rear so you have NO WORRIES! Now the important question. How does your Camaro drive now?
It rides great! My question is can I lower the rear by 6 mm to gain back the drop I lost without having to re-align?
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:16 PM   #21
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It rides great! My question is can I lower the rear by 6 mm to gain back the drop I lost without having to re-align?
Alignments are done in fractions of a degree. A 6mm change in ride height will have require the alignment be touched up. Go back to the same shop and tell the tech you believe the front end will be fine as is, but you need the rear toe and camber adjusted. You are asking for a two wheel alignment which should cost less that a four wheel alignment.
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Old 04-19-2012, 02:23 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssmike View Post
OK Pete, here's the printout! Keep in mind that this was a fresh XA coilover install as well as rear camber bolts which I did myself. The cambers in the front were set full negative when I tightened down the clevis bolts. The rear camber bolts were just rough adjusted.

Also, notice that he didn't achieve the .2 toe in the rear and is out of spec but he has them green. I gave him the new Pedders Aggressive street specs to go by! Thanks for your help!
That's what I was trying to explain a while back. When they pull out that big negative camber number you actually lose some drop. Looks great now!

Turns like it's on rails now, don't it?
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:30 PM   #23
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Yes it does!
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Old 04-19-2012, 05:30 PM   #24
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Alignments are done in fractions of a degree. A 6mm change in ride height will have require the alignment be touched up. Go back to the same shop and tell the tech you believe the front end will be fine as is, but you need the rear toe and camber adjusted. You are asking for a two wheel alignment which should cost less that a four wheel alignment.
Will do! Thanks again Pete!
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