zl1 vs new 640 hp viper

[TiE2000]

Originally Posted by Stew

That was the last Viper

I caught that in my later posts...

Originally Posted by BriteCrawler

The new car shown this week is technically the 5th generation of Viper.

yea my bad... I’m not a viper aficionado...

[Synerbee]

Originally Posted by Stew

The people that think the new Viper is ugly are a VERY tiny minority, good thing looks are subjective........ Fact is, like it or not, ANY Viper is going to get MUCH more attention than any modern vette or Camaro, those are just the facts......

I doubt that. I probably get as many looks as a Viper. I have people sticking there cameras out the window to get a picture, I've had some people pull into parking lots where I was to ask about my car. I get thumbs up and waves from mostly Dodge's

[mcdoogle6969]

Originally Posted by Brettzel

Have you even considered the chassis and drivetrain, maybe even tires or gear ratios, or maybe even the tuning of the engine in your mini comparo Mr.Clutch.

Also. The ZR1 is already supercharged, which is how it reached the power level it did. Imagine this new viper with forced induction, then where will the ZR1 be?

Give the ZR1 2 more cylinders and see where it would be...



Go throw that money into the viper to FI it, throw the same amount of money in mods then at the ZR1 while your at it.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Dragnya

none of this really matters ! A Viper is still a Dodge ! And that equals junk, always has and always will be. Chrysler/Dodge has always been considered bottom of the rung in the car industry . I owned a Viper about five years ago for about two months, raggediest car Ive ever owned and Ive owned a bunch. It had decent power and tq but thats not everything, I can put decent power and tq in a lawnmower doesnt make it a high quality car. So to ever try and compare a ZR1 to a Viper is not fair to Dodge, Its like steak to Spam. Just look at the demand and on average resale value for Vipers and then look at the ZR1, there is a reason. Sorry Dodge guys just the facts. some of their cars do look good but the quality ? Yea not there. IMO !!! just my opinion And last time i checked we're still able to have one.

If you owned one, your opinion would change, our Dakota and Patriot have been great, my borthers 09 CTS on the otherhand has an interior waterfall in the rain, clunking front end, and a engine that misses (though i believe that got fixed, but took 5 annoying dealer trips to 2 different dealers, one of which tried to claim the ening missing is actually a tire out of balance). I won';t even go into my Parents 00 Regal and my 00 GTP with their crappy transmissions, failing ACs, interiors that literally fell apart in your hands...... I have owned lots of GM cars, but wouldn't now, my best one was probably my 96 Caprice, only real problems were a bad fuel pump, window got out of track, and that crappy dexcool stopping up my heater hoses (yes it sucks haveing to get out in the middle winter to pop the hood and squeeze heater hoses to get heat for at least 1/10th of a trip until you have time to get the whole freaking cooling system drained and flushed and it sucks even worse getting a mjor burn on your hand from having to squeeze the damn heater hoses halfway into a trip). try actually owning cars from both manufacturs (and as in my case more than one example from each) before spouting off.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Synerbee

I doubt that. I probably get as many looks as a Viper. I have people sticking there cameras out the window to get a picture, I've had some people pull into parking lots where I was to ask about my car. I get thumbs up and waves from mostly Dodge's

Maybe your area isn't as overrun with Camaros as it is here, but on average i can practically guarantee a viper will get more looks.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by mcdoogle6969

Give the ZR1 2 more cylinders and see where it would be...



Go throw that money into the viper to FI it, throw the same amount of money in mods then at the ZR1 while your at it.

I like the viper but I gotta agree.

Not only 2 more cylinders, but an extra 2.2L of displacement. That is more additional displacement than some entire economy engines.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Rock36

I like the viper but I gotta agree.

Not only 2 more cylinders, but an extra 2.2L of displacement. That is more additional displacement than some entire economy engines.

So what? GM chose to go with forced induction for the ZR1, Dodge went with natural aspiration. If it GM felt it important, they'd have stuck a 9.3L V12 in the Corvette. If Chrysler felt it important, they'd have stuck a supercharged 6.4 in there. They didn't, for whatever reasons each company has. But the important thing to remember is that the cars are different means to accomplish the same goal, in this case, kickass supercar-beating American beasts with 639 hp (+/- 1). There are advantages and disadvantages to each approach. But complaining that the Viper has sooo much more displacement, or that the Viper should be given a supercharger to make things 'even' is BS.

Should they both have supercharged V10s then, to make it fair? Should they therefore have the same weight too, for the same reason? Then the same transmission, the same tires, same wheels, brakes, wheel base, track width, weight distribution, suspension setup, drag co-efficient, frontal area, and so on? There will always be elements where one car is slightly better than another. But if they are competing cars, it makes no sense to propose things to 'even the playing field' because once you start, it only makes sense to keep going until the two are 100% indistinguishable from the other. You can't have it both ways. You can't insist that one 'needs ____ ' for parity, then ignore every other aspect where the two are unequal.

[SGOS252382]

My neighbor (few houses down the street) just bought a new Viper.
He went from a 350z to a 370z to a Porsche Cayman to a Viper. I can only wonder what's next?

He was zooming up and down the street while I was washing my car a little earlier. It looked nice, but it's too quiet for being such a monster.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

My neighbor (few houses down the street) just bought a new Viper.
He went from a 350z to a 370z to a Porsche Cayman to a Viper. I can only wonder what's next?

He was zooming up and down the street while I was washing my car a little earlier. I looked nice, but too quiet for being such a monster.

Is it new new or just 'new to him'? I ask because the last one rolled off the assembly line in early July 2010. I can't think it was sitting on the lot unsold for roughly 2 years.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Rock36

I like the viper but I gotta agree.

Not only 2 more cylinders, but an extra 2.2L of displacement. That is more additional displacement than some entire economy engines.

One thing that impresses me about the Viper is it still gets decent MPG for what it is. The 08-10s were rated at 22 MPG highway, all the GM cars with the SCed 6.2 are 19 (ctsv/ZL1) to 21 MPG hwy (ZR1). Considering the revised V10 is even lighter and more efficient i would not be at all surprised if that jumped to 23 or 24 hwy.

[Rock36]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

So what? GM chose to go with forced induction for the ZR1, Dodge went with natural aspiration. If it GM felt it important, they'd have stuck a 9.3L V12 in the Corvette. If Chrysler felt it important, they'd have stuck a supercharged 6.4 in there. They didn't, for whatever reasons each company has. But the important thing to remember is that the cars are different means to accomplish the same goal, in this case, kickass supercar-beating American beasts with 639 hp (+/- 1). There are advantages and disadvantages to each approach. But complaining that the Viper has sooo much more displacement, or that the Viper should be given a supercharger to make things 'even' is BS.

Should they both have supercharged V10s then, to make it fair? Should they therefore have the same weight too, for the same reason? Then the same transmission, the same tires, same wheels, brakes, wheel base, track width, weight distribution, suspension setup, drag co-efficient, frontal area, and so on? There will always be elements where one car is slightly better than another. But if they are competing cars, it makes no sense to propose things to 'even the playing field' because once you start, it only makes sense to keep going until the two are 100% indistinguishable from the other. You can't have it both ways. You can't insist that one 'needs ____ ' for parity, then ignore every other aspect where the two are unequal.

I think you need to reread my statement and who I quoted, who they quoted, and take it into context.

But I'll lay it out for you. The message trail began with someone saying what if the Viper had F/I like the ZR1; which implies that the S/C was some kind of crutch for the ZR1, then mcdoogle rightly pointed out that with additional displacement where would the ZR1 in a converse argument.

I supported mcdoogle's position by saying 2.2L is not an insignificant amount of displacement...meaning one car needs 2.2L of displacement, and the other needs a S/C to reach their very similar peak hp and tq figures. That is all, nothing more to it, not saying what is "fair" or whatever you think I said.

Maybe your comments are in general but you seem to be assuming a position I never took.

Again one car needs displacement, one car needs a S/C. Two methods to the outcome... ultimately going back to someone implying in their post that the viper should have a blower like the ZR1, while forgetting the viper already had a significant displacement advantage over the ZR1. That is the "so what".

[SRT8Tech]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Is it new new or just 'new to him'? I ask because the last one rolled off the assembly line in early July 2010. I can't think it was sitting on the lot unsold for roughly 2 years.

There are still alot of the 2010's on the lot. MSRP is right around 100k and the ACR's are near 115k. Still some of those on the lots too. Ask me why I know? Ive been looking into geting one but decided not to. Im leaning to something else now.

[mcdoogle6969]

Originally Posted by Rock36

I think you need to reread my statement and who I quoted, who they quoted, and take it into context.

But I'll lay it out for you. The message trail began with someone saying what if the Viper had F/I like the ZR1; which implies that the S/C was some kind of crutch for the ZR1, then mcdoogle rightly pointed out that with additional displacement where would the ZR1 in a converse argument.

I supported mcdoogle's position by saying 2.2L is not an insignificant amount of displacement...meaning one car needs 2.2L of displacement, and the other needs a S/C to reach their very similar peak hp and tq figures. That is all, nothing more to it, not saying what is "fair" or whatever you think I said.

Maybe your comments are in general but you seem to be assuming a position I never took.

Again one car needs displacement, one car needs a S/C. Two methods to the outcome... ultimately going back to someone implying in their post that the viper should have a blower like the ZR1, while forgetting the viper already had a significant displacement advantage over the ZR1. That is the "so what".

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

So what? GM chose to go with forced induction for the ZR1, Dodge went with natural aspiration. If it GM felt it important, they'd have stuck a 9.3L V12 in the Corvette. If Chrysler felt it important, they'd have stuck a supercharged 6.4 in there. They didn't, for whatever reasons each company has. But the important thing to remember is that the cars are different means to accomplish the same goal, in this case, kickass supercar-beating American beasts with 639 hp (+/- 1). There are advantages and disadvantages to each approach. But complaining that the Viper has sooo much more displacement, or that the Viper should be given a supercharger to make things 'even' is BS.

Should they both have supercharged V10s then, to make it fair? Should they therefore have the same weight too, for the same reason? Then the same transmission, the same tires, same wheels, brakes, wheel base, track width, weight distribution, suspension setup, drag co-efficient, frontal area, and so on? There will always be elements where one car is slightly better than another. But if they are competing cars, it makes no sense to propose things to 'even the playing field' because once you start, it only makes sense to keep going until the two are 100% indistinguishable from the other. You can't have it both ways. You can't insist that one 'needs ____ ' for parity, then ignore every other aspect where the two are unequal.

The only 2 evenly matched cars in the world are always going to be the same year, make, model, and trim. No competitors are truly evenly matched.

[Apex Paul]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Is it new new or just 'new to him'? I ask because the last one rolled off the assembly line in early July 2010. I can't think it was sitting on the lot unsold for roughly 2 years.

I would believe it; The Viper in my garage sat in the dealer showroom for 3 years. Dealer didn't want to sell it, used it as a display item.

[Dragnya]

Originally Posted by Stew

If you owned one, your opinion would change, our Dakota and Patriot have been great, my borthers 09 CTS on the otherhand has an interior waterfall in the rain, clunking front end, and a engine that misses (though i believe that got fixed, but took 5 annoying dealer trips to 2 different dealers, one of which tried to claim the ening missing is actually a tire out of balance). I won';t even go into my Parents 00 Regal and my 00 GTP with their crappy transmissions, failing ACs, interiors that literally fell apart in your hands...... I have owned lots of GM cars, but wouldn't now, my best one was probably my 96 Caprice, only real problems were a bad fuel pump, window got out of track, and that crappy dexcool stopping up my heater hoses (yes it sucks haveing to get out in the middle winter to pop the hood and squeeze heater hoses to get heat for at least 1/10th of a trip until you have time to get the whole freaking cooling system drained and flushed and it sucks even worse getting a mjor burn on your hand from having to squeeze the damn heater hoses halfway into a trip). try actually owning cars from both manufacturs (and as in my case more than one example from each) before spouting off.

Oh yeah 01 Dakota that's a real cream puff ! I'll " SPOUT OFF" what ever I want as I said in my post it was my opinion ****** and if you don't like it even better !. as I said Dodge has , is and always will Be at the bottom rung of the car industry. I don't need to own more than one Dodge to know that what I most everybody else knows is that they are a sub par car as they always have been, all you have to do is look where you see most of them parked. And as i said there isa couple off them that i like the looks of but looks arent everything, But hey if you like them more power to you, but unlike you I'm not going to tell you not to "SPOUT OFF" that you love them. It's your opinion and thoughts period. But just a little advice , when you get in a tiff and run your mouth in a negative way because my opinion differs from yours that just shows your insecurity in your own opinion !

[mcdoogle6969]

Originally Posted by Stew

If you owned one, your opinion would change, our Dakota and Patriot have been great, my borthers 09 CTS on the otherhand has an interior waterfall in the rain, clunking front end, and a engine that misses (though i believe that got fixed, but took 5 annoying dealer trips to 2 different dealers, one of which tried to claim the ening missing is actually a tire out of balance). I won';t even go into my Parents 00 Regal and my 00 GTP with their crappy transmissions, failing ACs, interiors that literally fell apart in your hands...... I have owned lots of GM cars, but wouldn't now, my best one was probably my 96 Caprice, only real problems were a bad fuel pump, window got out of track, and that crappy dexcool stopping up my heater hoses (yes it sucks haveing to get out in the middle winter to pop the hood and squeeze heater hoses to get heat for at least 1/10th of a trip until you have time to get the whole freaking cooling system drained and flushed and it sucks even worse getting a mjor burn on your hand from having to squeeze the damn heater hoses halfway into a trip). try actually owning cars from both manufacturs (and as in my case more than one example from each) before spouting off.

LOL @ you comparing a dodge to a caddy. Sounds like your brother beat the hell outta the caddy.

A dodge will never compare to a Cadillac. Your in the wrong league.
With that said, I do have a lot of respect for dodge. I really like the viper and I almost bought a Challenger over my Camaro.

[Stew]

Originally Posted by Dragnya

Oh yeah 01 Dakota that's a real cream puff ! I'll " SPOUT OFF" what ever I want as I said in my post it was my opinion ****** and if you don't like it even better !. as I said Dodge has , is and always will Be at the bottom rung of the car industry. I don't need to own more than one Dodge to know that what I most everybody else knows is that they are a sub par car as they always have been, all you have to do is look where you see most of them parked. And as i said there isa couple off them that i like the looks of but looks arent everything, But hey if you like them more power to you, but unlike you I'm not going to tell you not to "SPOUT OFF" that you love them. It's your opinion and thoughts period. But just a little advice , when you get in a tiff and run your mouth in a negative way because my opinion differs from yours that just shows your insecurity in your own opinion !

Love the way you ignore all the gm issues i have had lol

[Stew]

Originally Posted by mcdoogle6969

LOL @ you comparing a dodge to a caddy. Sounds like your brother beat the hell outta the caddy.

A dodge will never compare to a Cadillac. Your in the wrong league.
With that said, I do have a lot of respect for dodge. I really like the viper and I almost bought a Challenger over my Camaro.

Lol. If you bother to do some research leaks are a common cts problem, as is front end problems, and angine problems across the board for the 3.6di. The way i see it it should be better than my 07 patriot with 85k miles that has had to only have a speaker replaced. If had known all the issues the cts line had before he bought it, he probably wouldnt have. And yes a caddy should be in a different league, it should be built a hell of a lot better too. Please tell me what kind of abuse would cause the sunroof to leak or the nav system to constantly freeze up. Also dont ignore the fact i listed many gms i have personally had and all the posts from others about their gm issues and excellent chryslers. Nice try though, no not really............

[SGOS252382]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Is it new new or just 'new to him'? I ask because the last one rolled off the assembly line in early July 2010. I can't think it was sitting on the lot unsold for roughly 2 years.

My guess is it's probably been sitting some where looking for a home. He's a doctor and makes serious money. I also see Vipers out front of the local Dodge dealership and assumed their new (unsold).

I'll have to flag him down and ask him about his car.

[Apex Chase]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Is it new new or just 'new to him'? I ask because the last one rolled off the assembly line in early July 2010. I can't think it was sitting on the lot unsold for roughly 2 years.

Originally Posted by Apex Paul

I would believe it; The Viper in my garage sat in the dealer showroom for 3 years. Dealer didn't want to sell it, used it as a display item.

+1 That sort of thing is pretty common with low production "halo" cars. Dealers get them and want to keep them on the showroom floor. Paul's Viper is a good example but another one that comes to mind is about 3 years ago Paul and I stopped in at a rather large Ford dealer because we found out they still had a brand new 2006 Ford GT. Sure enough, we walk in and there it sat. We tried to engage a sales person and he told us that he didn't "think" they wanted to sell it. We asked him to check and he just kind of disappeared. Well, we decided to go strait to the sales manager ourselves and he was pretty apathetic about it as well. My opinion is that everything is for sale for the right price so I asked him if he could pick up the phone and get someone involved the might "know" something since we are talking about a $150,000 car. His solution was to get our info so he could give us a call once he found something out. We never heard anything from them and as far as I am concerned that dealer will never hear from us either.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by Stew

The people that think the new Viper is ugly are a VERY tiny minority, good thing looks are subjective........ Fact is, like it or not, ANY Viper is going to get MUCH more attention than any modern vette or Camaro, those are just the facts......

I was sure a MOPAR guy would have that to say. I wouldn't say "tiny" is the appropriate count for those who dislike the looks. More than a few on this forum agree. There is no question that the Viper would draw more attention. The ZR1 would draw as much if it were the only model GM made and the numbers manufactured and sold were as pathetically as low as the Viper. The Viper was never a great buy...with the high cost and lack of many of the ZR1s ammenities...like ABS and some other tech things...but, my word....this thing is fast. I truly believe the newest iteration is really unattractive. Yes, they've improved the running gear and it now has ABS and some other nannies to watch over things, but I bet the price will increase considerably.

[ParisTNDude]

Originally Posted by SlingShot

It is fact as stated, if at a car show and there is a dozen Vettes and one Viper, the Viper gets all the attention and that is fact.

When quoting "facts" you have to be careful using the word "all" since I doubt your "fact" would hold up in a survey. "Most" or "more" attentiion might be more appropriate, but not "all". (just pullin' your chain, man...I agree with you, the Viper would steal the show!).

We have had at least one Chrysler product in our garage for probably 15 years. No, I couldn't call them junk, by any means, but their resale value is poor and our 2010 Chrysler Town and Country rattles everywhere. Have they ever let me down...no way and I like them...just not a Viper fan!

A guy in our car club gets really mad when I comment that his Viper sounds an awful lot like a Chevy stovebolt with dual exhausts...they do sound like 6 cylinder cars and that's a FACT!

[Gordo]

HMMM wonder if they fixed that $hitty exahust note from the past.

[SRT8Tech]

Originally Posted by Gordo

HMMM wonder if they fixed that $hitty exahust note from the past.

Yeah, they fixed that in the 3rd gen.