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Old 04-06-2012, 08:35 AM   #1
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The time has come for the truth to be told

This thread is directed to the Fbodfather:
Scott, You are and have been a huge influence in the Camaro community for a long time. I think I can speak for a lot of people and say "Thank you" for all you've done to make the car that we all love to own and drive. You have also always been truthful in your responses to thread rumors by dispelling them or flat out saying that is false. So the question I have to you this morning is this:
Are the rest of the orders for those of us that faithfully laid down hard earned money to GM on Oct 29th or there after going to get their 2012 cars built? It's a easy question to answer because the decision has been made and the people deserve to be told the truth. For some, what ever the answer it won't change their minds to go forward with their desire for the ZL1, but for others it will help them face the cold hard facts that what they thought was a grand opportunity to own something special is now gone. I for one want a 2012 ZL1 and played the GM game the best I could. I waited outside the dealership from 7:30 until 9 on Oct 29th when they opened and was the first to order that day. Now I sit and read threads which say they are done with the 2012 builds and the MY 2013 are about to begin. I just need to know from the one person we all love and respect what the true answer is.I will quitely sit back and hope for the best, but be prepared for the worst.
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Old 04-06-2012, 08:45 AM   #2
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I couldn't have said it better! I placed my order the same day as you and was priority 1 at my dealership. The sad part is some guys have already sold their vehicles to be able to buy one. What bothers me the most is that there are people who placed their orders after January who have already received their ZL1s!!
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:00 AM   #3
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There was a memo that went out that stated there would be 500 additional allocations picked up for the 12MY, and the rest would be rolled over to the 13MY. The dealers will find out this coming week, which orders will be picked up.


Post #113 ... Read the PDF

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showth...=212861&page=5
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:26 AM   #4
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I couldn't have said it better! I placed my order the same day as you and was priority 1 at my dealership. The sad part is some guys have already sold their vehicles to be able to buy one. What bothers me the most is that there are people who placed their orders after January who have already received their ZL1s!!
I'm one of those people that sold their other camaro's (and my Harley) to purchase a ZL1. I am a dedicated GM loyalist and always will be and can't believe I might get the shaft from them. I ordered 11-3-11 and was the one and only allocation at my dealership. I would like to have a 2012, that's what I ordered. I we don't get built for 2012 and are pushed back to 2013, I sure hope GM would have the decency to put us at the top of the list! I've been waiting for this car for 6 years! please don't make me wait any longer!
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:27 AM   #5
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ZL1 Orders

Hopefully, he has an answer for all. But...

You paid a deposit for an order at a dealer, how about putting the salesman to work finding out if your car will be built.

If your dealer got an allocation (not all did) and you have an order number, you should get your car.

(This a least sounds logical on paper!)

Best of luck in getting the car, hopefully you will know soon.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:31 AM   #6
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And if you don't get a 2012... FREE UPGRADE to a 2013 :-)
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:39 AM   #7
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And if you don't get a 2012... FREE UPGRADE to a 2013 :-)
free with the exception of a potential change in MSRP (whatever that ends up being)
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:42 AM   #8
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I for one would much rather have a 2013 or 2014. Bugs will be worked out and upgrades made. Guys, don't let perceived collectibility cloud your mind unless you intend to keep the car in a glass case. This is NOT a limited edition car. Frankly, the last of the Shelby line will be the car to collect if that's what you're into.
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Old 04-06-2012, 09:48 AM   #9
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If you ordered/expected a 2012(and have to wait for a 2013), get your deposit back and look elsewhere. Most GM dealers would care less.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:28 AM   #10
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I have to get the exact same deal on a 2013 that I would have received on a 2012 - including the $600 ECF hood credit and $1,000 GM Visa point bonus - for me to be happy and it has to be built in the first cycle. My rationale is that I put a deposit on an allocation and was promised a 2012. I understand that problems came up and that's OK, but if that didn't occur, I would be getting the car that I was promised and I think GM needs to make up for that. If I don't get that deal, I will also cancel my order for my 2012 CTS that I have a deposit on and be done with GM on the principal of the matter.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:52 AM   #11
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... I put a deposit on an allocation and was promised a 2012. I understand that problems came up and that's OK, but if that didn't occur, I would be getting the car that I was promised and I think GM needs to make up for that. If I don't get that deal, I will also cancel my order for my 2012 CTS that I have a deposit on and be done with GM on the principal of the matter.
People may want to rethink stating that they were "promised" a 2012 ZL1 by General Motors.

I think it would be wise to read the language from the 2012 Camaro ZL1 Coupe Estimated Production Guide dated October 24, 2011, before stating that one was "promised" a 2012 ZL1 by General Motors:

"These numbers are only "estimates" and not a guaranteed allocation. The total numbers of units used to calculate the Estimated Production Guide Numbers were based on anticipated production for 2012 model run of the Camaro ZL1 Coupe. Every attempt will be made to honor these numbers, but given the nature of production and unforeseen issues, actual dealer allocation for the ZL1 will not be determined until final production numbers are determined for 2012 model run."

One is certainly free to cancel one's order should one so choose, but remember that the caveats with respect to ordering a 2012 ZL1 were available for one's consideration before one placed one's order.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:58 AM   #12
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I have to get the exact same deal on a 2013 that I would have received on a 2012 - including the $600 ECF hood credit and $1,000 GM Visa point bonus - for me to be happy and it has to be built in the first cycle. My rationale is that I put a deposit on an allocation and was promised a 2012. I understand that problems came up and that's OK, but if that didn't occur, I would be getting the car that I was promised and I think GM needs to make up for that. If I don't get that deal, I will also cancel my order for my 2012 CTS that I have a deposit on and be done with GM on the principal of the matter.


I think that is very reasonable. I have a business with several company vans. Normally I purchase 3 - 4 new Chevy Express Vans every two years. I also buy 1 new 3/4 ton Silverado Duramax at 55k+ , loaded Chevy Tahoe 50k+ and misc vehicles like the Camaros at least every two years. I think that I may re-think my future purchases as well depending on how this plays out.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:21 AM   #13
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My contract was with my dealer and I was told "we can definetly get you a 2012 ZL1 as we have an unsold allocation....but, we need your deposit today to gaurantee you a 2012". I have that in writing via email. My dealer is my respresentative for GM and if my promises are not met, then I hold both my dealer and GM responsible. I run a manufacturing company and would definitley handle this situation as I stated above and I might do a little more for a customer that is dropping $115,000 in one month.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:26 AM   #14
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If I could have a 2013 by Mid July, I would be ok with that. I kinda wanted
a 2012 MY for the novelty of it. I could care less about the collectable side of it, I won't live long enough to ever see that happen.
I had a post on this thread earlier on that sounded like a fictional novel of
my experiances for the past 15 months. I since deleted that post just because I wrote it because i was getting so frustrated. I'm trying really hard to be patiant and understanding at this point, but its hard.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:27 AM   #15
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Threats of losing buisness really don't matter to GM in this case due to circustances beyond their control. Their only obligaion is to ensure that the product they ship is free from defects and meets the expectaions of the consumer. Period. They owe us nothing. No one twisted our arms and made us order this car. Am I disappointed I may not have a 2012? Am I disappointed I won't have a car in time for Camaro5Fest III? Am I disappointed that I may only get the car in time to lay out several thousand dollars for new wheels and winter tires in order to drive the vehicle more that a couple of weeks? Absolutely on all three counts. Very disappointed indeed. But trying to blame GM for not owing a crystal ball to give them solid dates for delivey is like trying to hold the weather man accountable for having to shovel 6 " of snow from your drive way when partly cloudy was his forecast. I'm still stuck at 1100, I'm waiting to see what comes of things this week when the new allocations are announced, but no matter what, I'll wait. I don't have a choice it this is what I want, and as I have stated many times on this forum, I have been waiting 40 years for this car, and I am not a patient man.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:33 AM   #16
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No offense, I don't understand the 2012 thing unless you are 20 years old and planning to rarely drive it and keep it for 40 years in hope it will be a worth significant $$ one day....$ you will personally enjoy ir yourself, not your kids. This is not a COPO car, it is mass produced and there are no special options to make them rare. Barrett Jackson sure affected a lot of people's perspective on cars and investing. Let the 2012 guys find out all the problems the new car will surely have and enjoy a 2013 ZL1 that will benefit from those discoveries and fixes. I will.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:34 AM   #17
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I can assure you that any business person worth their salt takes threats of losing business VERY seriously. It makes us carefully consider the situation and we always err on the side of the customer. That doesn't mean we bend over for every whiny Willie that comes along with a complaint, but if we feel that the complaint has any merit, we normally make ammends to save the relationship for future sales.

In my example above, it would not cost GM or my dealer one single cent more than it would have cost them to fulfill my contract for a 2012. So, as a business person, why wouldn't you do it?
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:40 AM   #18
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I for one would much rather have a 2013 or 2014. Bugs will be worked out and upgrades made. Guys, don't let perceived collectibility cloud your mind unless you intend to keep the car in a glass case. This is NOT a limited edition car. Frankly, the last of the Shelby line will be the car to collect if that's what you're into.
I don't understand why people always say this. It will be the same assembly line and will be built in the same year if you get a 2013 vs the 2012. There won't be anything wrong found in the 2012 that won't be found in the 2013. And who knows if there will be a 2014 for this styled ZL1. As little as we are going to drive our 2012s in 2 months I doubt we will put enough miles on them to catch any flaws before the 13s hit the street.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:47 AM   #19
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I don't understand why people always say this. It will be the same assembly line and will be built in the same year if you get a 2013 vs the 2012. There won't be anything wrong found in the 2012 that won't be found in the 2013. And who knows if there will be a 2014 for this styled ZL1. As little as we are going to drive our 2012s in 2 months I doubt we will put enough miles on them to catch any flaws before the 13s hit the street.
Haha. funny one. Just ask us early 2010 guys. It didn't take long for the problems to show and get corrected.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:48 AM   #20
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No offense, I don't understand the 2012 thing unless you are 20 years old and planning to rarely drive it and keep it for 40 years in hope it will be a worth significant $$ one day....$ you will personally enjoy ir yourself, not your kids. This is not a COPO car, it is mass produced and there are no special options to make them rare. Barrett Jackson sure affected a lot of people's perspective on cars and investing. Let the 2012 guys find out all the problems the new car will surely have and enjoy a 2013 ZL1 that will benefit from those discoveries and fixes. I will.

2013 or 2012. It's the same car.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:50 AM   #21
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I don't understand why people always say this. It will be the same assembly line and will be built in the same year if you get a 2013 vs the 2012. There won't be anything wrong found in the 2012 that won't be found in the 2013. And who knows if there will be a 2014 for this styled ZL1. As little as we are going to drive our 2012s in 2 months I doubt we will put enough miles on them to catch any flaws before the 13s hit the street.
Not true. If you search this forum, you'll find that there have been common problems associated with each MY. Although you can never completely be bug free, there is still the possibility for less error the more you know the product you are building.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:55 AM   #22
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No offense, I don't understand the 2012 thing unless you are 20 years old and planning to rarely drive it and keep it for 40 years in hope it will be a worth significant $$ one day....$ you will personally enjoy ir yourself, not your kids. This is not a COPO car, it is mass produced and there are no special options to make them rare. Barrett Jackson sure affected a lot of people's perspective on cars and investing. Let the 2012 guys find out all the problems the new car will surely have and enjoy a 2013 ZL1 that will benefit from those discoveries and fixes. I will.

Some people wanted the chicklets and some didn't care. It's the same with the model year. Its all a matter of personal fulfillment.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:56 AM   #23
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Actually I bought a 2010 2SS so I've been down this road before. The difference was the gap between production of the model years..there were a lot more 2010s built in the model year than there will be 2012 ZL1s. So what I am saying to everyone that says ok I will wait until July and get a 2013 that has no issues or that has gotten the bugged worked out...I say "hello it is the same year of being built, same assembly, and there is only going to be a 2 month period between 2012-2013's so it is not likely that a 2012 owner will drive it that much to substantiate your claim that it is better to get a 2013. Now if there will be a 2014 I would agree with your theory. It does apply in most first run situations but not this time around."
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:13 PM   #24
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My contract was with my dealer and I was told "we can definetly get you a 2012 ZL1 as we have an unsold allocation....but, we need your deposit today to gaurantee you a 2012". I have that in writing via email. My dealer is my respresentative for GM and if my promises are not met, then I hold both my dealer and GM responsible. I run a manufacturing company and would definitley handle this situation as I stated above and I might do a little more for a customer that is dropping $115,000 in one month.
Dealers are independent franchises and separate entities from General Motors. General Motors has very little, if any, control over what individuals dealers do and say, and absolutely nothing to do with a dealer's deposit. You can hold your dealer responsible for misleading you if you like, but GM provided the appropriate caveats for the customer, as evidenced by the 2012 Camaro ZL1 Coupe Estimated Production Guide, and it's the customer's choice if one wants to disregard those caveats.

I know that I believe what General Motors officially states, rather than what someone at a dealer states. It's only common sense. For example, how many times has there been evidence of clueless dealers posted on Camaro5?
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Old 04-06-2012, 12:16 PM   #25
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I also run a business like most of the posters above. I can't even begin to tell you how many of our projects looked GREAT on paper and produced lots of money in back-testing models. When we deployed them into the real world the results were much different because of unforeseen circumstances.

In business things don't always go as planned. A complex business like auto manufacturing will never run like a well oiled machine, there's just to many moving parts for something not to go wrong.

There was delays with the SS's in the end everyone got their car and was happy and moved on in life. There are now delays with the Volt from what my dealer tells me.
There will be many more delays with 1st year production models. We all knew that was a possibility when we placed our order.

To blame GM because of delays or limited 2012 MY models that will be produced is just plain wrong. Think about it they are a FOR PROFIT business, do you think if they could have produced more ZL1's they wouldn't.

I am as frustrated as everyone else i am still at 1100 placed my order in Dec. I try to look at the bright side, if my order gets pushed to 2013 MY i will get the goodies. 7" touch screen radio, nav. hopefully by July. Either way i don't think my 1100 status order would make it to me before May-June.
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