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Old 05-06-2009, 01:54 PM   #1
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Stock 2010 GT500 vs. Magnuson 2SS

Okay, I know this particular scenario is going to get played out at some point, so I thought I would be preemptive and offer this comparison between a 2010 2SS RS Camaro with the TVS blower kit installed and a stock 2010 GT500. Please feel free to comment or correct me if I have made an incorrect assumption in the comparison.

First, let me spell out what I am comparing to be sure there are no misunderstandings about what is being represented.

1) I am basing the comparison between a 2010 GT500 with a MRSP of $49,000 (base MSRP of $48,475[including destination and gas guzzler tax] + $525 HID headlight option) to a 2SS manual Camaro with the following options (RS package, ground effects package, IO interior package and hood strip kit) that would make it comparable to what you get with a base 2010 GT500. In this configuration, the Camaro would MSRP around $38,660.

2) The difference in price between the two cars, as optioned, would be $10,340.


As delivered, the GT500 would be 100% stock from the factory featuring 540HP and 510TQ with a full factory warranty and a driveline engineered to support the power levels it is making. It’s curb weight would be ~3925lbs.

Now, let’s assume that we wanted to up the ante on the performance level of the Camaro with the addition of the new Magnuson TVS 2300 blower kit. This kit MSRP’s at $7,400 complete, and it is estimated that it would cost an additional $700 or so to have it professionally installed. (Yes, you could save money by doing it yourself, but then if something goes wrong, you’re screwed.) This brings the total cost for the 2SS to $46,760 and should get you in the neighborhood of 565HP and 550TQ by all credible estimates.

In this configuration, the Camaro will have, in all likelihood, voided its factory power train warranty, will be making much more power than the driveline was engineered to handle and would have increased its curb weight by at least 100lbs, bringing its total curb weight to around 3960lbs.

So, in the end, you would have a modified Camaro making more power (565hp/550TQ) than a stock GT500 (540hp/510tq) but with a greater curb weight, no factory warranty, a drive train that is not engineered for the power its making and a price tag that is within $2,240 of what you would have paid for a 2010 GT500 with a full factory warranty and tons of room to grow in power with the stock drive train should you ever elect to forego the factory warranty.

And that is not even taking into account the fact that if/when you go to sell the GT500, it’s residual value will be based on a GT500 not a Mustang GT whereas the Magnuson-fortified Camaro will have the same resale value as its normal 2SS brethren despite having over $8,100 in additional parts and labor in it.

Hmmmm….I’m still in the corner of the GT500 in terms of what you are getting for your $$, all things considered.
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Old 05-06-2009, 01:59 PM   #2
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I'm curious to see how you know how much the Camaro's drivetrain can handle.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:05 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
So, in the end, you would have a modified Camaro making more power (565hp/550TQ) than a stock GT500 (540hp/510tq) but with a greater curb weight, no factory warranty, a drive train that is not engineered for the power its making and a price tag that is within $2,240 of what you would have paid for a 2010 GT500 with a full factory warranty and tons of room to grow in power with the stock drive train should you ever elect to forego the factory warranty.
Sir, 565hp for the camaro is RWHP. the 540hp u claim for the rustang is BHP, which will probably result in at around 450rwhp.

Yes the drive train is not engineered for the power, neither is the rustang, except the motor. i'm sure if u got ur rustang to 560rwhp, clutch, rear, driveshaft wont handle that as either.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:14 PM   #4
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I just cant get into the comparing Ford Premium Sports Car to GM's secondary one even at the price point off the showroom floor.
Ford
1. Ford GT
2. GT500
3.Mustang GT
4.Mustang

GM
1.ZR1
2.Z06
3.C6
4.Camaro SS
5. Camaro

No matter how you look at it there will always be some sort of Chevy whoopin your ass.
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I'm curious to see how you know how much the Camaro's drivetrain can handle.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:17 PM   #5
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Sir, 565hp for the camaro is RWHP. the 540hp u claim for the rustang is BHP, which will probably result in at around 450rwhp.
No, the 565HP I quoted was at the crank. I've been playing with high-horsepower cars for 20 years now; I know the difference between crank and rear-wheel HP. A stock LS3 makes, on the high end, about 384rwhp. I'm saying a Magnuson equipped Camaro will safely and dependably make about 515-520rwhp.

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Yes the drive train is not engineered for the power, neither is the rustang, except the motor. i'm sure if u got ur rustang to 560rwhp, clutch, rear, driveshaft wont handle that as either.
My "Rustang" is making over 650rwhp as I drive it every day on the stock drive train, exhaust, fuel system, etc. and it has made multiple drag passes on the same components at 700+rwhp on many occasions. I'd say you need to spend a little time on researching the GT500 before you post comments you can't back up.

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Old 05-06-2009, 02:20 PM   #6
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No, the 565HP I quoted was at the crank. I've been playing with high-horsepower cars for 20 years now; I know the difference between crank and rear-wheel HP. A stock LS3 makes, on the high end, about 384rwhp. I'm saying a Magnuson equipped Camaro is safely and dependably make about 500-520rwhp.

My "Rustang" is making over 650rwhp as i drive it every day on the stock drive train, exhaust, fuel system, etc. and it has made multiple drag passes on the same components at 700+rwhp on many occasions. I'd say you need to spend a little time on researching the Gt500 before you post comments you can't back up.
How much do you have in your GT500? including cost of the car?
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:26 PM   #7
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Also, what makes you think that is all the stock drivetrain on the SS can handle???????????????????? I love the way you lean so heavily to the mustang but try to look as though you are open minded and NOT bias!!!!
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:27 PM   #8
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For $200.00 you can buy the drivetrain warr. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!!!!
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:30 PM   #9
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if it the LS3 will handle the boost at 550whp then that will be a monster car
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:37 PM   #10
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No matter how you look at it there will always be some sort of Chevy whoopin your ass.

Doesn't matter what you drive, there will always be someone who can beat you. See, I'm not a "Ford" guy, so I have no problem with a "Chevy" beating me. From the sound of your attitude, you would have a problem if a Ford beat your Chevy.

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Also, what makes you think that is all the stock drivetrain on the SS can handle???????????????????? I love the way you lean so heavily to the mustang but try to look as though you are open minded and NOT bias!!!!
That would be biased not, bias. And where did I ever say the stock Camaro drivetrain could not handle that additional power? I said it was not engineered to do so and therefore, it would be suspect until it is proven otherwise. The GT500 drivetrain is a known quantity. Reading comprehension is your friend.

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How much do you have in your GT500? including cost of the car?
~$49,000

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Old 05-06-2009, 02:39 PM   #11
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~$49,000
Thanks
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:41 PM   #12
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Sir, 565hp for the camaro is RWHP. the 540hp u claim for the rustang is BHP, which will probably result in at around 450rwhp.

Yes the drive train is not engineered for the power, neither is the rustang, except the motor. i'm sure if u got ur rustang to 560rwhp, clutch, rear, driveshaft wont handle that as either.
No it's not. MAYBE if your including every bolt on (that haven't even been made), including dangerously high boost/timing curves.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:42 PM   #13
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I do agree with others though in that the driveline is an unknown variable.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:46 PM   #14
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the guy who said the mustang won't be able to handle 550rwhp is right (they can handle 450rwhp safely), but the SVT cars (terminator and shelby) definetely can. they are enginereed to be able to handle that power.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:46 PM   #15
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Thanks
Your welcome?
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:51 PM   #16
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I need to find that GXP information - BRB...
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:51 PM   #17
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Your welcome?
Cousin owns a Ford Dealership in Denver and is letting 2009 GT500's go for $41k out the door he only has a few left. Although I am Chevy to the core, I thought about getting one just to mess around with it and mask it as the car that my "mrs." drives because she actually likes mustangs (shes from ND and they worship fords there for some reason) Anyway, I respect performance of any American vehicle and I rarely leave anything stock. I've never built a mustang and was just thinking about it.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:52 PM   #18
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I need to find that GXP information - BRB...
I think I have it bookmarked..hmmmmm
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:59 PM   #19
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Wasn't it almost 560+ with a catback? I'll get to my point once I can support my thoughts.
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Old 05-06-2009, 02:59 PM   #20
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the guy who said the mustang won't be able to handle 550rwhp is right (they can handle 450rwhp safely), but the SVT cars (terminator and shelby) definetely can. they are enginereed to be able to handle that power.
But that is what we are talking about in this thread, a SVT-engineered GT500 Mustang. Not a modified Mustang GT. I don't even know why that was brought into the conversation in the first place.

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Wasn't it almost 560+ with a catback? I'll get to my point once I can support my thoughts.
I'm pretty sure that GXP was cammed, as well. You're referencing the Livernois tuned car, correct?

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Old 05-06-2009, 03:06 PM   #21
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For $200.00 you can buy the drivetrain warr. Put that in your pipe and smoke it!!!!!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by garagelogic View Post
Doesn't matter what you drive, there will always be someone who can beat you. See, I'm not a "Ford" guy, so I have no problem with a "Chevy" beating me. From the sound of your attitude, you would have a problem if a Ford beat your Chevy.
Seems like you are a blue oval guy to the bone, by the way you always put down the Camaro as you seem to believe it is inferior to your GT500. The GT500 is a great machine with lots of potential, I can't argue there, but with a Maggy strapped on the SS I believe it will put up a nice fight. If I remember correctly a Camaro engineer or scott(Don't quote me on it) said the drivetrain was able to withstand up to mid 700's lb-ft of torque.
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:19 PM   #22
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This thread is just another one of those chevy v ford v mopar endless arguments that is really not winnable.

Do what ya gotta do to your cars to make them fun for you and race 'em.

Honestly, I am a complete chevy freak but love anything that can roast tires and makes heads turn when you punch the peddle.

You can argue 'till your blue in the face but the car is really a personal thing that has plusses and minuses that an individual needs to decide which plusses he wants and which minuses he can live with.

For instance, if your goal was pure 1/4 mile speed then build a top fuel dragster and dont buy a mustang GT or camaro SS. If your goal is a fast daily driver then you have some more choices and decisions to make.

In the end, there really is not a right and wrong answer (expect for a mopar - they are the wrong answer...lol... just kidding)
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:20 PM   #23
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Seems like you are a blue oval guy to the bone, by the way you always put down the Camaro as you seem to believe it is inferior to your GT500.
I'm not even going to bother to respond to this unsupported kind of accusation for the bazillionth time on this board.

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Wasn't it almost 560+ with a catback? I'll get to my point once I can support my thoughts.
Like I said, I have no problem adjusting the variables in the original post if I am off-base. I'm pretty sure I read on one of the G8 boards of a supercharged GXP making around 550-560rwhp, but I don't remember all the details.

Even if that is the case, I still hold out that the 2010 GT500 is the better bang-for-the-buck option once you begin making performance modifications to the vehicles and do all the math. (P.S. Making that statement is NOT "putting down" the Camaro)
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:28 PM   #24
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Okay, I know this particular scenario is going to get played out at some point, so I thought I would be preemptive and offer this comparison between a 2010 2SS RS Camaro with the TVS blower kit installed and a stock 2010 GT500. Please feel free to comment or correct me if I have made an incorrect assumption in the comparison.

First, let me spell out what I am comparing to be sure there are no misunderstandings about what is being represented.

1) I am basing the comparison between a 2010 GT500 with a MRSP of $49,000 (base MSRP of $48,475[including destination and gas guzzler tax] + $525 HID headlight option) to a 2SS manual Camaro with the following options (RS package, ground effects package, IO interior package and hood strip kit) that would make it comparable to what you get with a base 2010 GT500. In this configuration, the Camaro would MSRP around $38,660.

2) The difference in price between the two cars, as optioned, would be $10,340.


As delivered, the GT500 would be 100% stock from the factory featuring 540HP and 510TQ with a full factory warranty and a driveline engineered to support the power levels it is making. Itís curb weight would be ~3925lbs.

Now, letís assume that we wanted to up the ante on the performance level of the Camaro with the addition of the new Magnuson TVS 2300 blower kit. This kit MSRPís at $7,400 complete, and it is estimated that it would cost an additional $700 or so to have it professionally installed. (Yes, you could save money by doing it yourself, but then if something goes wrong, youíre screwed.) This brings the total cost for the 2SS to $46,760 and should get you in the neighborhood of 565HP and 550TQ by all credible estimates.

In this configuration, the Camaro will have, in all likelihood, voided its factory power train warranty, will be making much more power than the driveline was engineered to handle and would have increased its curb weight by at least 100lbs, bringing its total curb weight to around 3960lbs.

So, in the end, you would have a modified Camaro making more power (565hp/550TQ) than a stock GT500 (540hp/510tq) but with a greater curb weight, no factory warranty, a drive train that is not engineered for the power its making and a price tag that is within $2,240 of what you would have paid for a 2010 GT500 with a full factory warranty and tons of room to grow in power with the stock drive train should you ever elect to forego the factory warranty.

And that is not even taking into account the fact that if/when you go to sell the GT500, itís residual value will be based on a GT500 not a Mustang GT whereas the Magnuson-fortified Camaro will have the same resale value as its normal 2SS brethren despite having over $8,100 in additional parts and labor in it.

HmmmmÖ.Iím still in the corner of the GT500 in terms of what you are getting for your $$, all things considered.
Eh, I'll find it later.

Using your comparison and the way you equipped the SS, I think it's a pretty fair battle. I don't agree with the power rating though; I can't find what I thought I read, but I swear there was a recent GXP that put down about the power you speculated at the tire, but I also believe it had exhaust. Assuming I'm remembering correctly, I'd call the power a little more thought because even if the exhaust was taken out of the equation, I think that car is still in the neighborhood of about 500 RWHP, through IRS. I don't know what the '10 GT500s are putting down but I think it's gotta' be close to 470-490 RWHP through SRA. Assuming that's in the neighborhood, I think Camaro will probably hold a slight edge in power-to-weight. I don't know that the LS3 is going to handle too much more power without fuel system mods' though, whereas I'm sure that GT500 is just barely scratching the surface as far as power potential from the factory. If the LS3 had a forged bottom end (or at least one equal to the LSA) I think the playing field would be more level.

Chassis-wise, I think the Camaro is already set up pretty good. Throw the rest of the money saved on the SS at some suspension, and I'm sure it would get out on the GT500 and lay waste when the pavement is rough. SS already has great brakes but I'm not sure upgraded rotors wouldn't be beneficial. I don't know that the OEM ones are bad yet, so I'm calling that a draw and unnecessary to replace. I know that it was stated the rear was good through 600 horsepower, however, under what conditions, and whether-or-not that is true is unknown. That may not be a problem until some sticky tires are bolted on, so I'll call that a draw since it wasn't in the original post.

I'm not really on board with the resale evaluations though. I'm not buying Camaro for it's resale value. I won't argue that you didn't make a good point and it's probably pretty accurate, but I really don't think it's that essential.

The warranty is already covered in another post.

I guess my bottom line is that I agree with certain parts of your senario. There are still too many unknowns with Camaro to make it fair, however, in terms of speed, performance, and reliability, I think these cars, equipped close to how you've outlined, would be pretty close, and even closer, if not Camaro coming out ahead, with my additions. I don't even really care about the resale. I will definately conceed, with little to no argument, that the potential to make more power is easily won by the Shelby. Now, if Camaro were to come with the LSA from the factory instead of the LS3, with equipment similar to the way you've equipped it, the potential just got closer with my only reservations being the rear and driveshaft. I don't think one can boost an LSA to the extent of the 5.4L because of the hypereutectic pistons and PM rods, but it'll probably handle another 50-75 horse pretty easily. Later-model GTOs faired well with pretty simple rear end modifications that were pretty inexpensive and with the staggerred half-shafts, I think Camaro is already a little ahead of the OEM '05-'06 GTOs.

JMHO.
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Old 05-06-2009, 03:33 PM   #25
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These two paragraphs say it all to me. You say:
SS has Greater weight
No warranty
Minimal price difference
More GT500 potential + Warranty

In the second paragraph you are only worried about money spent on adding HP and total price, some of us dont care as much and want the car we want.
To be fair, I think the comparison should be a 2010 GT500, comparing NEW to NEW, and I dont think anybody will be paying less than 50K for a 2010 so the numbers might be a little farther apart.

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So, in the end, you would have a modified Camaro making more power (565hp/550TQ) than a stock GT500 (540hp/510tq) but with a greater curb weight, no factory warranty, a drive train that is not engineered for the power its making and a price tag that is within $2,240 of what you would have paid for a 2010 GT500 with a full factory warranty and tons of room to grow in power with the stock drive train should you ever elect to forego the factory warranty.

And that is not even taking into account the fact that if/when you go to sell the GT500, itís residual value will be based on a GT500 not a Mustang GT whereas the Magnuson-fortified Camaro will have the same resale value as its normal 2SS brethren despite having over $8,100 in additional parts and labor in it.
I know you are a Camaro fan and want to buy one and I hope to one day have a GT500 in my garage right next to my 2010 SS. Sometimes it comes off as you are trying to "bash" the Camaro but I know it is a rational argument.
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