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Camaro V6 LFX Engine, Exhaust, and Bolt-Ons For all LFX related parts

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Old 04-12-2012, 01:39 AM   #1
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Intake manifold insulator for the LFX?

Any news on products being worked on for the LFX yet? Will they even be available to this engine? Sure hope so, thanks!
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:10 AM   #2
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Well knowing the manifold for you guy's is an composite IM I believe it doesn't get as hot as the 10-11's. I think they will come out with something, the LFX is slowly coming out with the vararam and ported TB soon
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:11 AM   #3
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Mmmmmmm vararam mmmmmmmm!
Cant wait!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Franklin's Bee View Post
Well knowing the manifold for you guy's is an composite IM I believe it doesn't get as hot as the 10-11's. I think they will come out with something, the LFX is slowly coming out with the vararam and ported TB soon
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Old 04-12-2012, 10:14 AM   #4
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Just need a local car to testing the 2012 VMax CNC TB and it will be released soon....
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Old 04-12-2012, 12:21 PM   #5
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The purpose of the insulator is to disconnect the metal intake manifold from the engine thus reducing its temperature and reducing the air temperature as it passes through the intake manifold. Since the 2012 intake manifold is composite, it seems like it wouldn't be necessary.

Now I do understand that the added bonus is it also elongates the runners on the LLT, that'd still be an applicable mod on the LFX.
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Old 04-12-2012, 01:31 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
Just need a local car to testing the 2012 VMax CNC TB and it will be released soon....
Sweet!!


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Old 04-12-2012, 02:04 PM   #7
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Quote:
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...

Now I do understand that the added bonus is it also elongates the runners on the LLT, that'd still be an applicable mod on the LFX.
This.

There is probably not much of a point of using an insulator to keep the manifold cool on the LFX since it is composit...it should work well for that on its own. But there could be some benefit from the added runner length to help provide some low end TQ.

I'd like to see this for the LFX.
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Old 04-12-2012, 02:32 PM   #8
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Yeh, in that case it'd just be a spacer instead of an insulator.
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:37 PM   #9
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Does this upgrade require a tune?
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Old 04-12-2012, 05:42 PM   #10
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Does this upgrade require a tune?
Not that anyone has noticed because like whats been said on the LLT the main gain is from where reduction in heat on the IM.
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Old 04-13-2012, 06:20 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by SC2150 View Post
Just need a local car to testing the 2012 VMax CNC TB and it will be released soon....
Sorry, last post was in regards to this item. Does this item require a tune? What gain did the 2011/2010 get from this item. I have a 2012.
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Old 04-13-2012, 11:55 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HopeRidesAlone View Post
Not that anyone has noticed because like whats been said on the LLT the main gain is from where reduction in heat on the IM.
Not true HOPE. I know there's been tons of debate over this ever since mace and vmax came out with the insulators, but the independent dyno that hapi provided for both insulators on the same engine and on the same day both ran within an hour clearly show that the extra increase in runner size provided alot more hp/tq in the low to mid rpm over the vmax. The increased runner size however did have a small downfall pass 6k rpm but nothing significant.

I am 100% positive the LFX can also benefit with extra runner length. GM engineers clearly stated that the extra hp bump was due to increased intake valve size and more efficient cylinder head design with it's integrated exhaust manifold. Not because of heat reduction due to plastic manifold. The plastic manifold was simply a cost reduction change and nothing more.
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Old 04-13-2012, 02:34 PM   #13
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It's essentailly doing the same as the old cross-ram manifolds on the dual 4-barrel Z-28s in the 1st generation. Increases the flow of air into the cylinder due to the dynamic pressure and size/volume/length of the air column.
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Old 04-13-2012, 03:44 PM   #14
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The VMax cnc LLT unit shows 4-6 rwhp.

On the heat issue, this one subjet (and its rare) I disagree w/bmore.

We have been doing the heat reduction HP increases for the past 20 plus years. Examples.

BBK 90 MM aluminum intake VS composite LS6 75mm. We saw the LS6 outperform the BBK aluminum in every type testing we did (the 90mm should have more than made up for the heat, but did not). But, when we iced the intake down between runs the BBK would gain 12-18 rwhp for that next run and then heat back up and loose the power.

Our 1000 plus HPdrag motors, we would see 20 plus HP gain with a thin heat shield, but when running methanol that made the alum single plane cool to the touch w/out the spacer we gain more than the spacer alone (Methanol gives extra power over race gas anyway).

And then look at the the videos.....we are reducing a solid 30-35* the temp of the LLT alum intake manifold with the VMax Iceolator....and that is more cooler than the Honda 4 cylinders we used to make these for where we saw around 12 whp gain from the same thickness.

Now, that is not to discount the runner legnth adding some torque, as we did this for years with early fuel injection on our race motors. We would tune each runner length to that specific cylinder. We then did a ton of sheetmetal intake designs to move the powerband, and look at the old Mopar Max Wedge cross-rams....they were 3' long!

The heat issue is something we have worked with for over the past 20 years and can show gains on any motor we cool the intake on.

One last example: My old Dodge Viper. We tried to design and manufacture a composite intake manifold years ago for the power gains from eliminating the heat soak the aluminum intake was experiancing but it would have been close to a $500-700k investment and we could not follow through. What we did see, was run it on the dyno warmed up, ice down the intake maniold, and we would do a run and see between 40 & 60 rwhp more. That was also no runner length change, only the temp difference (that was close to 50* F).

But, we aregoing todoa 1" thick Max iceolator for testing and will report back on the findings. We also have a few othersurprises instorebut cant say more until they are proven.

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Old 04-13-2012, 06:56 PM   #15
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But, we aregoing todoa 1" thick Max iceolator for testing and will report back on the findings. We also have a few othersurprises instorebut cant say more until they are proven.

Very..very interesting.
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Old 04-13-2012, 07:14 PM   #16
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I respect your opinion tracy and im positive the cooling factor could play "some" role in reducing intake air charge that could possibly give few more ponies. some could take bigger advantage with temp theory over other cars since every car is not the same. We seen hapisok's comparison result on the same dyno done on the same day which clearly show much more power gain in the low to mid rpm with 25mm extra runners. One thing we have to take into account is that on the dyno we usually wait until each cool down between runs, unless we are purposely trying to heatsoak the vehicle. Whatever the case might be, I believe both parts are extremely worthy, but GM enginner did state that the extra power for the LFX did not come from cooler temp from the plastic IM but from a larger intake valve and mote efficient cylinder head design. I know one side is saying temperature is the main reason and the other side is saying the increased runner. Both theory work, but which one actually work better for our LLT particularly is still pretty much debateable LOL. I personally would have to say the same reason why GM made our LLT IM into a cross ram design to give that ram push of air into the cylinders. Add more length from the IM to the valves and I believe the effect could be greater which showed on the dyno. Denser air is always good but the question for me is, does it affect more in gain vs increased runners? dyno doesn't think so and the GM engineers also verified that the extra gain with LFX was not because of cooler plastic LFX IM.

Both are awesome regardless



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Old 04-13-2012, 07:29 PM   #17
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Not true HOPE. I know there's been tons of debate over this ever since mace and vmax came out with the insulators, but the independent dyno that hapi provided for both insulators on the same engine and on the same day both ran within an hour clearly show that the extra increase in runner size provided alot more hp/tq in the low to mid rpm over the vmax. The increased runner size however did have a small downfall pass 6k rpm but nothing significant.

I am 100% positive the LFX can also benefit with extra runner length. GM engineers clearly stated that the extra hp bump was due to increased intake valve size and more efficient cylinder head design with it's integrated exhaust manifold. Not because of heat reduction due to plastic manifold. The plastic manifold was simply a cost reduction change and nothing more.
Thanks Bmore for clearing that up i was misinformed.
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