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Old 06-15-2012, 07:20 AM   #301
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All I am going to say is I have two Camaro's and I love them. Yes I had to have a top replaced, but I worked with the Service Manager and told him my concerns. They fixed it in two days while renting me a car. I cannot complain at all. Maybe I am a lucky one, but I cannot see why everyone has to complain so loudly.
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Old 06-15-2012, 08:22 AM   #302
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difficulty understanding

you are one of the lucky ones. if your car stank from water in the back seat until you were ashamed to take anyone for a ride, believe me, you would find in your heart some understanding for those of us who want to be heard.
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Old 06-15-2012, 12:43 PM   #303
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Update on mine...(not complaining, just informing others).

I started my whole leak repair process by informing everybody and their brother about it within GM. I emailed Jack Pantaleo's boss (since Jack is out), created a case number through Chevrolet Customer service and dropped my car off at the dealer all on the same day. Basically, everything but the BBB just to give my dealer a chance. My dealer is completely new to these top issues, so I wanted to minimize my return trips to the dealer.

They performed all service bulletins that they knew of and it still leaked. At that point I requested a new top based on the February 2012 build change (top revision change). I requested that through my service rep and Chevrolet Customer service.

My service rep just informed me that the GM district manager was at my dealer today and gave the service shop something like 21 more things to check on the top and water management system. He is resisting the top replacement request. My service rep also told me the district manager is lining up a GM Engineer to visit my dealer to assist with my car. Not sure what's going on here because all this attention has got to be way more expensive then just replacing the top. Either way, it proves to me that the old saying "the squeaky wheel get the grease" is true.

The good thing, I am saving them a loaner because my garage floor is being urethane coated and I need a place to store the car for a few more days. At the rate they are "repairing" my car, I estimate losing three weeks of Upstate NY summer weather use of my car. That is going to add up to something financially. I'm thinking stripes, performance features or something.

I'm really looking forward to getting my vert back. Absence makes the heart grow fonder!

Last edited by SSTOKED; 06-15-2012 at 12:46 PM. Reason: forgot a word.
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:09 PM   #304
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Stoked that is great a field engineer is coming out. If they would of done that with my first car I would still have it. I saw what they did to the top on my old car. WOW is all I can say
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Old 06-15-2012, 01:22 PM   #305
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Stoked that is great a field engineer is coming out. If they would of done that with my first car I would still have it. I saw what they did to the top on my old car. WOW is all I can say
Becky just called me and told me they had their Tech (who was trained by the GM Engineer over top design) has gone over the car I am picking up monday and made a few adjustments that didn't look right to him and put his seal of approval on it.
Here is a couple pictures she sent me.
Attached Images
  
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:04 PM   #306
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My convertible top is still on back-order after more than a month now!
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:15 AM   #307
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Originally Posted by SSTOKED View Post
My service rep also told me the district manager is lining up a GM Engineer to visit my dealer to assist with my car. Not sure what's going on here because all this attention has got to be way more expensive then just replacing the top. Either way, it proves to me that the old saying "the squeaky wheel get the grease" is true.
One of the steps of the process. I just went through this part (with a "we'll get back to you" at the end of the meeting).

If they want to have a meeting with you (and I would suggest that you try to have that happen if you can. Otherwise their meeting is about how they are going to get out of this. You have nobody there for your defense), best thing you can do is be prepared. Have support for your positions (I took a lot of info off here and our FB page) and be straightforward but insistent in what you EXPECT GM to do to solve the problem. Have some links ready on a piece of paper to give to them, use the Josh Holder vid if necessary, use the Al O quote if needed, use simple but straight forward rational thought (you do not "fix" a design with tape. You temporarilly overcome a symptom. If these marks are normal, then why do some cars not have them? Use all the examples of multiple top replacements without changing the mechanisms. Why a TSB? etc.). I liken this to taking a test. Be prepared for what will come and it becomes easier to come up with the answers.

Make no mistake, this will be a three on one. They will appear to want to be buddy buddy, but you and I both know (because of the effort and "squeaky wheel" that you took just to get to this point) the end run for them is to get out of this situation the cheapest and easiest. Not what's best for you.

I know, maybe I'm telling you something you already know, but I just want people to be prepared and know what's going to happen, as they go through this process.

Good luck.
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Old 06-16-2012, 09:55 AM   #308
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One of the steps of the process. I just went through this part (with a "we'll get back to you" at the end of the meeting).

If they want to have a meeting with you (and I would suggest that you try to have that happen if you can. Otherwise their meeting is about how they are going to get out of this. You have nobody there for your defense), best thing you can do is be prepared. Have support for your positions (I took a lot of info off here and our FB page) and be straightforward but insistent in what you EXPECT GM to do to solve the problem. Have some links ready on a piece of paper to give to them, use the Josh Holder vid if necessary, use the Al O quote if needed, use simple but straight forward rational thought (you do not "fix" a design with tape. You temporarilly overcome a symptom. If these marks are normal, then why do some cars not have them? Use all the examples of multiple top replacements without changing the mechanisms. Why a TSB? etc.). I liken this to taking a test. Be prepared for what will come and it becomes easier to come up with the answers.

Make no mistake, this will be a three on one. They will appear to want to be buddy buddy, but you and I both know (because of the effort and "squeaky wheel" that you took just to get to this point) the end run for them is to get out of this situation the cheapest and easiest. Not what's best for you.

I know, maybe I'm telling you something you already know, but I just want people to be prepared and know what's going to happen, as they go through this process.

Good luck.
Excellent points and I will start printing out the material.

I'm also going to hit them with the fact that I'm a manufacturing engineer at GM (Rochester, NY) and I know about design revisions and how important it is to contain suspect product from getting out to the customer when there are known manufacturing/design problems. We work very hard in our plant to control quality and it is very apparent to me they missed the boat on this one. I also happen to know somebody at the Camaro plant so they can't fool me (I wished I called him before I purchased). I'm going to voice my opinion to them for all of you and how disappointed I am on how this problem is being handled. It hurts my paycheck when they lose future customers over problems like these. Employees are just regular customers so even I get screwed on stuff like this! Keeps us real and makes me focus on making the best product we can in our plant
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Old 06-17-2012, 07:42 AM   #309
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I'm also going to hit them with the fact that I'm a manufacturing engineer at GM (Rochester, NY) and I know about design revisions and how important it is to contain suspect product from getting out to the customer when there are known manufacturing/design problems. We work very hard in our plant to control quality and it is very apparent to me they missed the boat on this one. I also happen to know somebody at the Camaro plant so they can't fool me (I wished I called him before I purchased). I'm going to voice my opinion to them for all of you and how disappointed I am on how this problem is being handled. It hurts my paycheck when they lose future customers over problems like these. Employees are just regular customers so even I get screwed on stuff like this! Keeps us real and makes me focus on making the best product we can in our plant
Good idea. Excellent positioning!

Fwiw, as part of the "conversation" I had with those three, I brought up my insistance for a 10yr 100k warranty. The immediate response was that I got the most that GM could give out (4yr 65k). I said calmly (but quite happily because this is one of the many traps I set up for this meeting), that no, "GM rep's have given out more". I then opened my file and listed various people who have better warranties given to them from GM. I even offered to give him phone numbers and copies of warranties (heh heh, it was one of those priceless moments where the GM rep had nothing to say). I then pulled out the quote from Josh Holder as support for my position on the 10yr 100k.

I got an awkward silence and then the District Manager decided that maybe we'll revisit that after we solve my top problem, lol (really this is exactly the way it went down).

That interaction was all thanks to this forum and the facebook page.

Guys, GM is going to get away with the strategy of blowing people off. Its a numbers game. But they shouldn't get away with it on anybody in this forum. You have tons of support and information and emperical evidence to fight them off with. I know they like to try to blow you off with "anything on the internet is not believable" (its a way for them to disregard all your support). But if you give them names and locations and listing of people who have had multiple tops done (or whatever), its very hard for them to blow you off.

Funny thing is, I know that GM is watching these forums and I am putting myself and my strategies and my encounters out there for all to see. This is akin to allowing the other side to see all my notes and cheat off me . I'm positive I could go the BBB route and get a new top and mechanism. But that's not going to help anybody but me.

No, I'm no Micheal Moore or Erin Brockovich (and this certainly isn't as important a problem as people dying of cancer. Far from it). But I just don't want to sit idly by while this big, non caring, company rolls over people and tries to sweep this under their proverbial rug while they spout off disingenuos things like "We are very sorry to hear" "We apologize for any inconvience" "I am sorry to hear the frustrations you are experiencing with your vehicle". All while telling people to basically go pound sand.

Actions vs words folks. Actions vs words.
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:30 PM   #310
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My turn on Friday.....

My salesman sent me an e-mail last Thursday asking how I liked my car and I replied telling him about the bubble forming on my dash, the gear shift knob loosening up and last but not least that I was unhappy with my top's appearance.

Well, today, the service manager called me and I discussed it with him along with my angst about having the top replaced because of all the other issues others have had with leakage, etc. and he assured me that they sent one out to a top specialist and it came back perfect. So far, he has been very very good and concerned with making me happy. I told him about my '93 Oldsmobile that I had a canvas top on and how it still looked perfect when I sold it years ago and about this forum and others with the same issues. He listened and said he understood my concern.

Friday morning at 10 AM I have an appointment for them to take a good look at it and we will see what they come up with for me. I also told him if it does need a new top that I know a totally new mechanism was released by GM and I would expect that to be replaced also. I'm sure it will need one because I can see the fabric on each side getting frayed and will eventually turn into a hole.

And so it goes.........
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Old 06-18-2012, 04:41 PM   #311
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How widespread are these issues? Any idea? I know that it's easy to think there are tons of problems when you're on a forum like this where folks are specifically asking/posting about their issues.

I have been looking all day online at verts for sale, but I don't want to encounter these top problems!!!! Maybe I'll just wait.
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Old 06-18-2012, 06:32 PM   #312
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How widespread are these issues? Any idea? I know that it's easy to think there are tons of problems when you're on a forum like this where folks are specifically asking/posting about their issues.

I have been looking all day online at verts for sale, but I don't want to encounter these top problems!!!! Maybe I'll just wait.
I started a pole to find out jut that, what are the problems and how many have them.
you may want to follow this one.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=229648

so far the ones with just rubmarks and wrinkles plus the no problems at all are more than the ones having the holes and broken bows.

My experiences with the Convertible tops on two Saturns are they will show rub marks if you put them down. period. but they should dissapear with the next washing. Wrinkles are something that some tops get and some don't. but the ones with holes and broken bows seem to be the worse. Myself I feel confident that the problems will be addressed and fixed, and after seeing several having theirs replaced and are satisfied now with them gave me the confidence to buy a early 2012 build Convertible today. from what I understand the ones being built now, saying the late 2012 and the 2013 ones should be just fine.
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Old 06-18-2012, 09:05 PM   #313
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Who is Josh Holder?
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Old 06-19-2012, 03:11 AM   #314
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Who is Josh Holder?
Josh Holder is an engineer and rep for Team Camaro.

What do I win?
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Old 06-19-2012, 05:22 AM   #315
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Who is Josh Holder?
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228149
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Old 06-19-2012, 09:38 AM   #316
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My salesman sent me an e-mail last Thursday asking how I liked my car and I replied telling him about the bubble forming on my dash, the gear shift knob loosening up and last but not least that I was unhappy with my top's appearance.

Well, today, the service manager called me and I discussed it with him along with my angst about having the top replaced because of all the other issues others have had with leakage, etc. and he assured me that they sent one out to a top specialist and it came back perfect. So far, he has been very very good and concerned with making me happy. I told him about my '93 Oldsmobile that I had a canvas top on and how it still looked perfect when I sold it years ago and about this forum and others with the same issues. He listened and said he understood my concern.

Friday morning at 10 AM I have an appointment for them to take a good look at it and we will see what they come up with for me. I also told him if it does need a new top that I know a totally new mechanism was released by GM and I would expect that to be replaced also. I'm sure it will need one because I can see the fabric on each side getting frayed and will eventually turn into a hole.

And so it goes.........
Please let us know how everything goes at your service appointment. They should be able to address all of your concerns. I look forward to your updates.

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Old 06-19-2012, 05:06 PM   #317
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Maybe it is one of those automated online help desk people.... this has become simply bizarre...
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Old 06-19-2012, 10:58 PM   #318
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My last update from GM on Monday was that even though I've waited 6 weeks on a replacement top that they have no idea when a new top will become available since there is currently a wide-spread shortage.
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Old 06-19-2012, 11:17 PM   #319
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If there is a widespread shortage shouldn't that tell all of us that this is a major problem? I mean, the first tops are going to the ones on the line and the leftovers are sold through parts warehouses and dealerships for service. Just read between the lines a bit on this one.
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Old 06-20-2012, 12:17 AM   #320
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I hope the 50th Anniversary Camaro has the modified top.
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:35 AM   #321
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If there is a widespread shortage shouldn't that tell all of us that this is a major problem? I mean, the first tops are going to the ones on the line and the leftovers are sold through parts warehouses and dealerships for service. Just read between the lines a bit on this one.

Exactly. I've been waiting since the beginning of May. What a joke. I go for a few days vacation, including from my cell phone, and the GM Cust Assist Center tells me (after 6 months of this crap) that they have "been trying to reach out to me and have not been able to contact me.." THE PAST THREE DAYS... And, "...since we cannot contact you we will close your case file at this time. Please call us if we can be of further....." I am beyond pissed off right now. "Reach out" to me? Yeah right. Just a head's up to folks out there using the GM Cust Assist Center, they are basically worthless. And they have yet to listen to or meet my demands for the "advertised" expectations of this car. The top is screwed, and the service records are 3 inches thick with a plethora of warranty issues with this car.

So, my demand is still for a new mechanism and top. We'll see what they send. Meanwhile, the car is back finally from fixing the hydroelectric plant I had on the rear floor.

I was told there is a new mechanism prototype by the GM Assist Center just last week. This is the reason they told me I could not "get a new mechanism". Hey I'll wait. Because, GM, you're going to get this car back constantly for the same problem until it is REPLACED. Sorry guys, just plain tired of this shit, I've been nice, now it's time to turn the "nice light" off. I'm told I'm in line for the new canvas....it had better have a matching newly designed mechanism attached.
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Old 06-20-2012, 01:37 AM   #322
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you are one of the lucky ones. if your car stank from water in the back seat until you were ashamed to take anyone for a ride, believe me, you would find in your heart some understanding for those of us who want to be heard.
OMG man, you're right on point with that smell.....like rotting trash wasn't it? Bleah! Ours literally could not be driven, nobody could open the door without a gag reflex. Seriously.
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Old 06-20-2012, 07:19 AM   #323
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Stink Solution?

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OMG man, you're right on point with that smell.....like rotting trash wasn't it?
Have you tried those little pine trees that hang from the rear-view mirror?
Don't use more than three at one time, because the weight will pull the mirror off the glass.
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Old 06-20-2012, 03:59 PM   #324
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Have you tried those little pine trees that hang from the rear-view mirror?
Don't use more than three at one time, because the weight will pull the mirror off the glass.
Funny thing is, the day we took delivery, I went to adjust the mirror and it fell off in my hand.
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Old 06-20-2012, 04:09 PM   #325
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Sounds like an omen.....the mirror reflects on the car after all.

Mine goes back to the shop tomorrow. The 'fix' didn't resolve rub marks, the wind noise is worse and now has a whistle to it....oh and the wife found a cable sticking out from the driver side of the top. Classy!

*sigh*
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