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Old 05-07-2009, 03:48 AM   #76
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OK I'm back... thanks again Scott for another great read that helps put things in perspective. I'm glad the Camaro is finally back, sometimes I come on here and other sites and just shake my head in disbelief because in 2002 I thought my dream of owning a BRAND NEW Camaro were over. But this is a very bittersweet time for me because although I'm estatic for all of brothers here and abroad it just feels so wrong that something I've waited for for so long is still so far out of my reach. My wife and I are both going back to school full time this year and needless to say that knocks a new $37k car out of my budget. I haven't been on here as much lately because it's really bothering me but I can't stay away. It doesn't hurt that I almost got into an accident a couple of weeks ago swinging a u-turn into Felix Chevy in L.A. when I saw a 1LT/RS in their lot... I molested that car for well over an hour and apologized to the salesman every couple of minutes for eating up his time. The car felt so right that it made it feel so, so, so very wrong that I wonn't have one for years. I'm praying to have enough money saved up and be out of school by 2011 so I can get a 2012 45th Year Anniversary edition. Scott, you guys did a great job and although the naysayers prove to be a very vocal minority 'round these parts, a job well done is something to be proud of... who says GM doesn't make a car Americans want?

You got it right when there were so many opportunities to get it wrong because you actually do care, and for that GM has forever earned my respect and my business. Now... is there someway you can help me get Jimmie Johnson's Camaro? lol

****Thanks to Silver Streak for the pic I used to make this sig****
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:58 AM   #77
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Nothing, apart from the lack of RHD, so far has really put me off the Camaro. Every new car has teething issues - admittedly some worse than others, but it's a car - built in the tens of thousands - the law of averages states some won't be perfect.

Ho hum. Roll on next year and "my" car.
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Old 05-07-2009, 03:58 AM   #78
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The personal attention we as enthusiasts have gotten with this iteration of the Camaro is awesome and without comparison. Thanks Team Camaro and especially the Fbodfather!

So far, as I understand it, the only way anyone has really been or is getting screwed is by bad Dealers and clumsy transport people.

Remember when people were screaming online about piston slap/oil consumption (early ls1/ls6), head ticking (03/04 Cobra), wheel hop, leaky t-tops, markups, sold pre-orders being handed to the highest bidder, and the many other problems that happen with many other cars?
These cries went unnoticed and for the most part without response unless some faceless people at the manufacturer through an unknown process issued a bulletin/recall. We the consumers have been and quite often are at the mercy of these capricious gods of the automotive world.
Until now.

This vehicle launch feels like no other I've ever experienced, and certainly this attention and disclosure means much more to me than some little signed badge on an engine.

Whatever problems I encounter when it's my turn will be met with a higher degree of understanding and patience than I've had in the past, because this Camaro is really worth it to me.

Sorry to those who've had a bumpy ride.
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Old 05-07-2009, 04:19 AM   #79
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Fbodfather: Maybe you could address the problem discussed in this thread?
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:28 AM   #80

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Wow! After reading all these posts, there sure are some upset folks out there. As someone who works in a manufacturing world (Not Cars), i fully understand the unforseen issues that pop up when a new process/product is being ramped up on a line. People think that their product is the only one affected and therefore should be looked at RIGHT now. Well in the case of those cars like mine that are in QC hold and getting retrofitted.. face it, there were 2k+ cars to be done and there aren't 2k+ people to do all those retrofits so it will take a little more time! I know I'm just as antsy as most and I control that 98% of the time.... just have patience.
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Old 05-07-2009, 05:32 AM   #81
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Double Orders and Other Thoughts

Interesting. I placed my order on 10/13/2008 then canceled (dealer was an arrogant a$$) only to order from another dealer on 11/29/08. I received 2 welcome kits and I knew that the original dealer was not going to cancel with GM. Perhaps this is some of what production has seen.

Regarding the hoopla about the pre-order queue being not exactly linear: I wanted this car and the inferred (keyword there) timing for delivery fit perfectly into my plans. Those plans "may" be significantly influenced by what is happening now and I have a moderately flexible timeline that I can commit to. That said there is a cutoff date for me in which I must move forward with other options. Unfortunately there are zero other US cars that appeal to me (and have a backseat). Such is a fact-of-life for my particular situation.

Thank you sir for being there for us and truly caring but as you stated GM has a business to run but I also have a life to lead.
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Old 05-07-2009, 07:35 AM   #82
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Thanks for the posts. They keep me waiting.

There are a lot of people that are still waiting and many of them will stick around untill the car shows up. This seems to include me at this time but this has been a challenging wait. I have to think there are quite a few customers out there that have one foot out the door at this point. Keep posting and we will keep waiting.

I have to drive a 15 year old, exhaust fume filled, cracked windshield, rumbly, inherited from my father in law, beater type car to work most days. People look at me funny when they see me in it. It looks WAY out of place in the parking lot. I keep driving it. Why? - Because you tell me to wait.

When the Camaro does finaly show up, I will arrive at the dealer and leave the motor running. I have decided that I will put up with no more shenanigans at that point. If ANYTHING wrong does happen, I will probably blast out of there in 10 seconds or less. The next post will be a picture of my new Audi S5 (REALLY PISSED) or just maybe even a Mustang (just a little pissed).

The only other thing I ever pre-ordered before without ever seeing in person was a Harley Davidson. It showed up in the wrong color and the dealer just offered to just give me back my deposit. He ended up throwing in some stuff for free but the truth is, I never ever got 100% over it being the wrong color. I sold it and never regretted it. I still like looking at Harleys but I will never ever own one again.

This car is about passion. If you kill the passion, you kill the need. I realy don't think I "NEED" this car as much as I did back in October 13th 2008. It's that close.:(

Thanks for letting me unload a bit here. You have done a great job at building a fantastic car.


Last edited by Stingr69; 05-07-2009 at 08:38 AM.
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:01 AM   #83

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Thanks for the info Scott.
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Bolt on best before blower 12.22@113.29 w/ nothing but ARH headers, catted x-pipe, ADM CAI and a tune on stock Pzero`s!

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Old 05-07-2009, 08:09 AM   #84
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Thank You Scott, for all you do for us!!!!
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:36 AM   #85
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What can I say Scott. You and your team have done a wonderful job. Yes I have my Camaro SS/RS. This car is everything I had hoped and more. The R6P code for early preorders IS something very special. I'm gonna keep this short, but suffice it to say
I appreciate your involvement with the new Camaro and I will be very proud driving my
SS/RS knowing you had a very large part in it's rebirth.
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:38 AM   #86
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I had a buddy that used to say, "Don't argue with an idiot - people will not be able to tell the difference!" I think some people on this site just want to be negative.

In many cases we have too much information. I remember when I was waiting for my 1999 Camaro SS - there was not much info out there - there was the SS Owners Association that had great info. Today we get all the gory details on everything.

We now know about the things that happen, that just a few years ago we never would have know about. My guess is no car has had the availability of information like the new Camaro.

Thanks Scott S for keeping us in the loop and fighting for a great car and a great company, and thanks to all the great people at GM that are working their buts off in very trying times to bring us a world class car! Way to go!

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Old 05-07-2009, 08:42 AM   #87
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For one, the passionate, and sometimes negative, discourse is a direct result of the fact that so many are so beside themselves w/ anticipation and excitement over this car you've built. It's unbelievable. While I've yet to throw stones, I absolutely understand SOME of the lack of patience because you built such a damn fine car (and I've had the pleasure of sitting in at least 10 different cars). Others, with their 'panic du jour' (so true) and the cutting negativity on so many boards out there, need to find another outlet (or target)...

So, to those who threaten to buy something else because they're tired of waiting (and some of you placed your order in 2009!): every time you see a Camaro cruising around, while you're making your monthly payments on some lesser vehicle will regret that choice for years.

Thanks Scott for sharing so much information, even though that's backfired badly in some cases. I am excited, but I CAN and WILL wait for my car to arrive. That baby is truly fantastic!

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Old 05-07-2009, 08:45 AM   #88

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Scott has spoken. All will be well. Remember there is a lot of s*** going down at GM these days not just the Camaro.
On the 8th day God created the Camaro and all is good.
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:46 AM   #89

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Thanks for posting Scott and following the thread.

My family and I want to thank you and all at GM for bringing the Camaro to us. My family really wants to thank you, John, Cheryl, Dennis and all the gang who worked on #230 and signed the cool poster they sent with their signatures.

And if all goes well tonight #230 will be sleeping in her new home. I just hope she gets along well with Franchesco (my wifes Acura RL). Meaning do not park to close to #230 and no door dings from my kids.

Thanks for all you have done and I can say that with you posting on the site it really lifts folks spirits up. Maybe when the launch calms down you can post once a week to whats up and going on. I really like you talking about your family stuff. Hits home!!!

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Old 05-07-2009, 08:49 AM   #90

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Originally Posted by UCF w00t View Post
And here's the minority party's rebuttal to GM party's State of the Union address

This should have been made more clear. When you said things like "we want you (collectively) behind the wheels of your Camaros AS SOON AS POSSIBLE!" to the average person that means that you are actually taking steps to make this happen, not just using us as guinea pigs. Nowhere did the official documentation state any of this. And, when you preorder something, it is assumed that yours will be among the first delivered.

I don’t think most of us really have a problem with the one-per-dealer decision. Not everyone agrees with it but it’s not the real point of contention.

Are you really giving examples of spy shots as to why GM shouldn’t share information? Why not give those spy shots to the public before they can even become an issue? What if you just posted more flattering pictures along with explanations that the interior wasn’t anywhere close to final and that the headlights were just for testing and the final ones weren’t finished? None of the panic would have happened!!! They've already let writers test Volt mules so it looks like the Camaro is being surpassed in the early information game.

Actually several people DID post that. Pictures were even posted of the pace cars showing no damage.

Again, more responses to non-issues. We know we can’t all have them NOW. We know not all dealers and customers are always ethical. The problem is that orders are still being entered into the system and placed….. right now……..that are going ahead of people that ordered several months ago. Why? >>>>

This is the stock response it seems. Blame it on the heavy hand of government. Then please explain how you were able to build all those cars for Avis? Shouldn’t they have to be evenly spread out? How come several NASCAR drivers got early cars? How come Dr. Phil and Jay Leno are getting the hook up? Do these same laws have a provision that states “If you’re incredibly rich, GM can build a car for you ahead of all the stupid normal people”? This just doesn’t add up. If you can do it for celebrities, you can do it for the not-so-celebrities that unwittingly agreed to be your guinea pigs.
I think that is really the only thing that continually remains unanswered...
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:51 AM   #91
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I am sorry that your sleep is only four hours a night. You should work on that. I know it takes time to produce a car and realize that your biggest customers get the first shot which happens to be Avis. They also preordered the same as us. What I totally dislike is that my dealer tries to keep me informed but I emailed Customer Service to see if I was going to be built this week as my dealer gave me the TPW which was on his screen. I got an email saying that my request is being transferred to another person and that I would be hearing from her. It has been several days and no answer from them. Last night I went to the May 6 event and sat in a 2LT and had some fun looking it over.
My dealer said he will try to get an update today but what happened to the Customer Service rep who was to respond back to me? This is why people are upset--no feedback.
My order number is NDZMPK ordered 10/29/2009 and first to be placed. However we see people coming in way after our dates and they have VIN's already. I worked at tier 1 supplier for all the big three and also trucks and I know how scheduling works. Orders are suppose to be filled in the order received. How can you explain this? Poor communication and unsupported delays for pre-orders are upsetting alot of people. Early orders need to be built and if there is a delay on manual transmissions then it needs to be brought to the dealers attention so customers can decide if they want an automatic or not to keep moving down the line. The bad thing is hearing it rumored on the websites and cannot find out if it is true or not. Not good for public relations on GM's part.
1100 on 10/29-1st to order
2000 on 4/16
2500 on 4/21
3000 on 4/21--TPW 5/4
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:58 AM   #92

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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
Dear ones.........[...]
..........and there are those who have opinions even though they have never worked in this industry, and thus, while it’s every person’s God Given Right to have an opinion – it is not necessarily so that the opinion has ANYTHING to do with fact.

….and thank you, once again, for “Keeping the Faith”
people have to stop jumping to conclusions!! they get on here and think that they know everything!! Thanks Scott, you really put so much of your time into these posts and it really means a lot!
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:05 AM   #93
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I get the same way from customers, business etc.. can't fall asleep, all kinds of s**t goes through your head, even when it has nothing to do with you or anything you can do about it.

As for the Camaro IMO the biggest loss of faith is/when the early cars are/were held up with no "real" explanation. This brought on a whirlwind of complaints and bashing when it could of easily been diffused by a single paragraph like you said. I don't think it does take as long as it is to repair any or all of these, but I am chalking it up to maybe the GM situation and loss of jobs that are slowing this down?

Thank you for your heartfelt information, it was needed to calm a lot of folks down.

hopefully #231 will get off the sitting rail and get here so I don't have to lose sleep over one more thing.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:05 AM   #94
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I did not order early (I tried to).
I know I have a long wait (I expect that).
The Camaro is worth waiting for.

Thanks for your thoughts.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:15 AM   #95
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Originally Posted by fbodfather View Post
I know that it may seem that way -- but in reality, most of our dealers are hard-working people who are trying to do the right thing -- and most of them are very benevolent to their communities.

(...and industry sales satisfaction and service satisfaction surveys will bear this out -- we're above industry average and many of the foreign manufacturers are the worst!)

The problem is that a few ruin and tarnish everyone else.

We constantly talk to our dealers --

You may also have heard that we're going to reduce the number of dealers across the country -- not sure how that's going to play out -- but you can be assured that 'sales and service satisfaction' will play a big part in who stays and who goes............. are correct, there are great dealers out here! Triangle in DeFuniak Springs, FL is one of them and is an important part of our small town. Triangle must stay! Order #NJMC53
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:18 AM   #96
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Great picture of the world as it exists. Really appreciated.

I only hope everyone on here would realize, that you and all your compadres at GM have a massive situation on your hands. Having to deal with rumors, unfounded or not, is disruptive.

I for one have been exceptionally please with how things are going with this car. I am fully prepared to wait for whenever my car will arrive. I even expected to wait until third quarter. It will get here when it gets here.

My dealer, while initially rather lackluster in my dealings is starting to catch on to what this vehicle is. I went to their unveiling last night and hadn't seen so many smiles in a dealership in a heck of a long time. Granted it is a small town dealer. But, I really believe their connection with the community is the basis for their long term existance.

Either way, my lovely Bride and I are waiting patiently for when our new Camaro arrives.

Let's enjoy this, we may never have an opportunity to enjoy this type of car again. ( I hope I am wrong in saying that.)
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:24 AM   #97
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***** Sigh ******

I'm so glad I have the patience to wait untill the hullaballo dies out. Everyone has their panties in a knot over delivery dates, allocations, front facias, side view mirrors, dealer mark ups, and who gets their car first.....

I am waiting a year. I will have my Camaro just like the rest of you..... but I will have paid less and gotten a car that has had all the kinks worked out of it. While you all need to take your blood pressure medication, I'm still laying around in my underwear sipping a margarita, laughing and watching you all get all bent out of shape
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:31 AM   #98

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You know, I've met a few famous people in my time in the Marines, but I never felt a need to ask for an autograph. I think fbodfather is about the only person I can think of that I would really want to meet and get an autograph from! You, sir, are an inspiration to all of us Camaro Faithful. Keep up the good work, and let me know if you swing through Iowa some day!
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:33 AM   #99

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Originally Posted by UCF w00t View Post
Somehow I left this out of my previous post...

That is 100% BS. Maybe you don't recall but customer v6 orders WERE delayed. Orders began being placed February 19th for the Camaro. There was a constraint preventing all v6 orders from being placed until March 19th! (and manual v6s still aren't being built). So yea, that's a delay of a month.
I think he was referring to the actual DELIVERY of the orders, not the placing of them. Calm down.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:35 AM   #100

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Originally Posted by fastball View Post
***** Sigh ******

I'm so glad I have the patience to wait untill the hullaballo dies out. Everyone has their panties in a knot over delivery dates, allocations, front facias, side view mirrors, dealer mark ups, and who gets their car first.....

I am waiting a year. I will have my Camaro just like the rest of you..... but I will have paid less and gotten a car that has had all the kinks worked out of it. While you all need to take your blood pressure medication, I'm still laying around in my underwear sipping a margarita, laughing and watching you all get all bent out of shape

Yeah I know that is true.
I pre ordered so long ago and am still at 1100, I justified it (paying full MSRP) by thinking I would be one of the first to get it.

Now I know that I will pay full MSRP most likely just before the fanfare dies down, along with the price,while others bought theirs right off the lot way before me.
Dude, I've got 289,000+ miles on my toyota, yeah it's a toyota but how much longer will it last? I driver 130 miles a day.
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