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Old 05-07-2009, 08:39 AM   #101
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I guess I'm lucky as a late comer to this site in that my frustration is just not having it yet and I didn't have to go through all the panics. When I read about the battery cable issue I was hoping it was a one time deal and just a fluke. Finding out that it went beyond that really bummed me but I was really glad that GM is jumping on this unforseen problem right now instead of later. I think all the negativity is really caused by this and other boards and the information age. Prior to the internet none of the problems of an early production model would have been known so nobody would have had any worries. I'm sure these problems and much worse go on with any new car from any manufacturer so I just can't get myself worked up over it.

Fbodfather, I'm not going to threaten to take my business elsewhere. I don't need this car, it makes no economic sense for us at the moment, it won't fit my whole family. On the other hand, I NEED THIS CAR! There is nothing else out there that we would stretch our budget for. I will however threaten to introduce a whole bunch more squirrels to your yard and you can forget about my GI Joe Army coming to your rescue! Keep on rockin
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:39 AM   #102
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Originally Posted by 2002b4c View Post
I had a buddy that used to say, "Don't argue with an idiot - people will not be able to tell the difference!" I think some people on this site just want to be negative.
If you look at most forums on the internet, the majority of the post are people complaining about something. If you look at most of the world, unfortunately, majority of people complain about anything and everything. If they dont have anything to complain about then they will search for something. Whether it be the government, the production of a material item, or the fact that someone double parked; most people are not happy unless they have something to gripe about. It's a crappy thing but its just the way it is now-a-days.
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:46 AM   #103
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Thanks for your input scott! And thank for writing to us! I have been looking at buying a camaro since Apr 2007 but I could not order from the R6P order since I was planning to get married and I need to see how my finances will look like with lots of planning. I just order my camaro 2 weeks ago and hoping that I will get the car before my wedding in july. But I'm starting to think that will not have it by then. I wanted to have my wedding with car and take pictures with it on one of the happiest days on my life. But I do not think I will get it by then... Oh well....
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Old 05-07-2009, 08:53 AM   #104
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I haven't heard of any pre-order v6 deliveries, have you? Even if this were the case, the only reason would be the battery wire issue as only SS's have to be fixed.

Sorry but noone is beyond reproach in my book. If fbodfather is going to continue to make fallacious statements, I'm going to continue to take him to task for it.
Look dude, the point is that fbodfather and GM are doing the best they can. If you think you can run an international company better, step up and do so.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:01 AM   #105
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Look dude, the point is that fbodfather and GM are doing the best they can. If you think you can run an international company better, step up and do so.
I don't think I could. I just expect that they do the right thing and make some sort of effort to prioritize preorders ahead of orders placed after 3-16. I don't see why it requires decades of experience in the auto industry to see that that is the right thing to do. They did it for celebrities, they can do it for preorders.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:06 AM   #106
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Fbodfather once again has taken the time to eductate us on the complexities of such a vast undertaking. Thanks Scott! Many times we not take time to remove the "ASS" out of our "PASSION" before we speak. The Camaro is still breathtaking every time I see one. My car will be in soon. I am OK waiting an extra week to ensure it is right. We are truly lucky to have input from various people in the know from Chevy, the assembly line, GM Workbench and dealerships. Thanks to all for keeping us updated.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:16 AM   #107
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fBodFather, thanks for the write up, its given me a little more understanding and patience to carry on and wait. I ordered my Baby on 10/13/2008. I was there before the dealership opened and was the first order placed that day. I wait, as patiently as I possibly can... but somewhat perturbed by the steady stream of people who ordered in 2009 getting there Baby's ahead of mine. Anyway, thanks again for your time and insight... and thanks to the entire Camaro team for their efforts too.

On another note, I didn't realize all the members of this forum that were at Classic Chevy in Grapevine last night. I took my son and we really enjoyed seeing all the classic Camaro's and even sitting in one of the new ones. Had I realized you were in attendance, I'd of worked to stay longer in hopes of meeting you in person!
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:23 AM   #108
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Posted by Fbodfather:
We also found out in the pre-order activity that the V8 percentage was even higher than we’d thought it would be – so we also decided to make the “one Camaro per dealer’ a V6 – thereby accomplishing two objectives:
1. To preserve the V8 components for ‘R6P’ orders
2. To put a V6 in the showroom so that people who would not normally think about Camaro – would see the car – see the value – and perhaps purchase one. (we need to continue to sell Camaros in volume – and that means ‘conquest’ sales.)

Now for the real world,
I just got off the phone with Bachman Chevrolet as to what is the color the their 2010 LT dealer car.
It WAS Victory Red but they sold it after the unveiling.
I really have to think that GM really does care about the "our Loyal Enthusiasts ", i.e. those willing to pre-order, pay full MSRP, wait for their order while others just buy off the lot.
I love the Camaro. Yes I love the Camaro. I feel very pissed in how GM treats their " Loyal Enthusiasts". They know how much they can take advantage because the "enthusiasts" will take it.
You do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because it is the easy thing.
You build pre-orders first.
Oh yeah, as of yesterday, I'm still awaiting to be pulled.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:25 AM   #109
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Thanks Scott, for everything.

I know you understand where some of us come from wanting our cars.

I understnad both sides, and know some people take this too far.

Thanks again.
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:26 AM   #110
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Brilliant note Fbodfather !

The internet is a powerful tool for good or ill

A few years ago most folks would not have heard of some of the 1 off issues being seen on early cars - but now the data is online and worldwide in the blink of an eye

Main thing is that the Camaro is here, it is well designed on largely, well proven subsystems and we need to give the end to end process to keep up with demand while inevitable early teething problems are worked out.

I have waited this long for a car that at one time I thought was dead - so a few more months is not an issue (as long as my current Z28 keeps plugging away beyond the 200,000 mile mark
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:36 AM   #111
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I pre-ordered in Nov. I don't have my car yet, but it is scheduled to get built next week. I don't see why all the bitching and whining about not having a pre-ordered car is so popular here. I've waited since 2002 to get another Camaro, I can wait another few months if needed. I'm just GLAD to see that they actually built the cars, and that the general population is now getting them. Yes, some people got their cars earlier than others. Big deal. Life isn't fair. If you just HAD to have a car today, I'm sure the right amount of zeroes on a check could persuade a current 2010 owner to let theirs go.

I look forward to having one in my garage soon!
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:41 AM   #112
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How is it even possible for a dealer to charge more for a car you ordered?And this is the exact reason I'm waiting for 2011 when all the hoopla has died down,gas is on the rise again and the excitement will quickly fade for many,I'm looking everyday at new Camaro's and have the itch to own another
I parted ways with my 02 35th Annv.SS a couple of years ago for a new silverado and when i saw that the Camaro was reality once again I started planning to ride once again,and there are other cars that I like but I'm drawn to the camaro like a moth to the light,this will no doubt remain a heated debate for a little while longer so good luck getting your cars and enjoy I will be joining the fun later hopefully with less of a headache
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:57 AM   #113
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I think the issue what’s going on is that those getting their cars before the preorders is not due to the fact that they were ordered first, but how many slots dealers have. If Dealer “A” had 10 slots but received 20 orders before march 13 the extra 10 slots will probably have to wait. If Dealer “B’ had 10 slots but only presold 6, then he is still entitled to the 4 slots like Dealer “A”. Those dealer “B”’s are filling their slots now that’s why I believe they are getting bumped ahead of others.

In my case I called every dealer within 350 miles from me (in April) to see who still had allocations, luckily I found a dealer that still had a slot that was not sold during the presold time frame. In fact he still has 2 slots available….

A lot of dealers put their order in before the public in their name (salesman, owner) to get the car ahead of you and then turn around and sell them. This happened with Dodge on their SRT models….I preordered also and saw that mine got built after others that came in after me….. thus the reason I waited to order…

Is this fair??? NO but it’s the dealers that are creating this mess not GM. Now for the Avis deal they probably had an order with GM for their fleet vehicles even before we got to preorder…..
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Old 05-07-2009, 09:58 AM   #114
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Scott,

First of all, I respect everything you do and say. It is very much appreciated. However...

Quote:
Originally Posted by fbodfather
We countered with ‘no – that’s not true’ – and shortly thereafter announced we were going to build a V6 for each dealer. That started conjecture that R6P orders with V6s would be delayed. That wasn’t true either – but it certainly gave peoples’ blood pressure a test!
You can't honestly tell me that my order V6 Manual Transmission order hasn't been delayed. I was the first to order at my dealership on October 13th. My car hasn't even been built yet and there is actually no schedule for it to be built. This dealer has had over 4 cars built already but not mine, which was ordered first. Nobody has any answers why it hasn't been built. Yes, they were on constraint initially (constraint=delay). But my order was pulled by GM over a month ago and hasn't been built yet. Quite honestly, this whole order is becoming ridiculous. And since GM has been so quiet about this we are left to speculate. Why have no V6 Manuals been built aside from maybe 3-6? There are rumblings about a problem with the transmission and people are having their potential build weeks pushed back over a month!! And there is no constraint on this. If I wasn't so emotionally invested in this order already I would have walked long ago. Please help.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:08 AM   #115
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Originally Posted by PieNsky View Post
You do the right thing because it is the right thing, not because it is the easy thing.
That's the definition of Integrity right there... doing the right thing, for no other reason than it's the right thing to do.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:09 AM   #116
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Thanks fbod, glad to see an enthusiast is behind the project
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:14 AM   #117
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What i didn't see in this was why are some dealers getting 10 or more when there are a lot of dealers that haven't got a single one. I think its awesome that GM wants to get us the best Camaro that you can which makes me happy...however i am frustrated by the fact some dealers are getting a lot of cars while others have not even got a single one. I understand Big dealer vs small but that still doesn't justify a small dealer getting jiped for a large one to have more. My dealer i guess is average to small size in Mulvane, ks...but thanks for the information fbodyfather gave me insight to a few things.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:19 AM   #118
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Excellent right up fbodfather. You certainly have my respect.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:24 AM   #119
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Originally Posted by ClaymoreZ28 View Post
Brilliant note Fbodfather !

The internet is a powerful tool for good or ill

A few years ago most folks would not have heard of some of the 1 off issues being seen on early cars - but now the data is online and worldwide in the blink of an eye

Main thing is that the Camaro is here, it is well designed on largely, well proven subsystems and we need to give the end to end process to keep up with demand while inevitable early teething problems are worked out.

I have waited this long for a car that at one time I thought was dead - so a few more months is not an issue (as long as my current Z28 keeps plugging away beyond the 200,000 mile mark


Fbodfather....thank you for the direct thoughts...no flames from me!

I've worked many years in the marketing/manufacturing industry and understand your position all too well. I completely understand that proprietary data and knowledge of problems in manufacturing is always best kept to yourself, but info flows soooo freely today, it's become impossible to keep a lid on things.

In the internet age, I'm wondering how you look back on the handling of the release of information to the public and acknowledgement of issues like the computer re-flashes, cracked fascia, and caliper weights and I'm curious to know what you would do different next time. (Like the unveiling of the Z28!....and no, I don’t expect a reply on that one!) Personally, I would suggest quicker responses and simple explanations to mitigate the rumor fires as you’ve offered with this thread….just sooner.

The early order activity led many to believe that first entered meant first built in the order they were received by GM...Clearly that was not the case and I'm sure was never promised as there is a bigger marketing campaign beyond us relatively few die-hard followers. I’m sure there is a team of troubleshooter working the early build cars waiting for updates, but it would be best if GM would make a statement about when the R6P orders will be prioritized.

My dealer just called...MY car is being unloaded...gota go!

Thanks again!!!

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Old 05-07-2009, 10:25 AM   #120
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LOL its awesome... he said "newbie" HAHAHAHA...

Scott you freakin' rock man. Thanks for putting up with some of the... well lets just put it out there... IDIOTS that post on these forums, enthusiast or not some shit just dont need to get aired.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:27 AM   #121
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well written Fbodfather, now please help trm0002(from 5thgen) find his number 72 car lol. i feel real bad for him :(
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:33 AM   #122
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DragonCamaro View Post
What i didn't see in this was why are some dealers getting 10 or more when there are a lot of dealers that haven't got a single one. I think its awesome that GM wants to get us the best Camaro that you can which makes me happy...however i am frustrated by the fact some dealers are getting a lot of cars while others have not even got a single one. I understand Big dealer vs small but that still doesn't justify a small dealer getting jiped for a large one to have more. My dealer i guess is average to small size in Mulvane, ks...but thanks for the information fbodyfather gave me insight to a few things.
Just like Corvettes, dealers "earn" their allocation amounts based on previous sales figures. If you sell enough GM cars, your dealership gets priority on the hot items. Just the way it is. Physical size of the dealership, or the size of town the dealership is in, are no longer a factor with this age of internet selling. Some smaller dealerships have pushed one specific model so much and sold enough of that model, that they have become almost a center of activity regarding that model. Volume of car sales = more allocations. If some podunk town Chevy dealership had an aggressive internet sales manager and beat the country's pricing, he would sell a lot of Camaros online and ship them all over the country. Then his allocation would also be huge for Camaros.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:34 AM   #123
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There really shouldn't have been a pre-order.
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:35 AM   #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Primus View Post
Scott,

First of all, I respect everything you do and say. It is very much appreciated. However...



You can't honestly tell me that my order V6 Manual Transmission order hasn't been delayed. I was the first to order at my dealership on October 13th. My car hasn't even been built yet and there is actually no schedule for it to be built. This dealer has had over 4 cars built already but not mine, which was ordered first. Nobody has any answers why it hasn't been built. Yes, they were on constraint initially (constraint=delay). But my order was pulled by GM over a month ago and hasn't been built yet. Quite honestly, this whole order is becoming ridiculous. And since GM has been so quiet about this we are left to speculate. Why have no V6 Manuals been built aside from maybe 3-6? There are rumblings about a problem with the transmission and people are having their potential build weeks pushed back over a month!! And there is no constraint on this. If I wasn't so emotionally invested in this order already I would have walked long ago. Please help.

Again...because of the internet age, GM needs to convey explanations of this delay to calm the nerves of those that it affects.

I think the V6 manual is a quality issue discovered and deemed un-salable to the public in Mid-March just about the time regular production began...probably after your order was pulled. I'm sure a fix has been engineered, but it takes a few weeks to rework existing materials and get the correct products to the assembly line.

Hang in the Primus!
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Old 05-07-2009, 10:36 AM   #125
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Thanks Fbod, but at this time just don't see the pre orders the same way. I understand you want a quality product for you consumer that I 100% agree with and the rental car companies are a bigger buyer then me I also 100% understand. The pre ordering process has not been perfect and I know it's not going to be just was thinking it had room for improvement that's all. I will be patiently waiting for are car. Thanks you and the GM family for the hard work they have poured into the Camaro and will hopefully be a proud owner soon.
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