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Old 04-20-2012, 07:34 PM   #51
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I was there and thats how it happen. Its because the car only have 250 miles on and it its not broken in. So the more harder you run it the more it brakes in. Thats why the number changes.



Jason, that was a bit too strong. lol
Yah your probably right. Sometimes you have to try and stop the trolls from getting starting. That's why I posted it in the Cali section. A Mod moved it, probably for good intentions. To much useless opinions and questions because they don't want to believe the numbers are true.
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Old 04-20-2012, 08:40 PM   #52
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Yah your probably right. Sometimes you have to try and stop the trolls from getting starting. That's why I posted it in the Cali section. A Mod moved it, probably for good intentions. To much useless opinions and questions because they don't want to believe the numbers are true.
Let people believe what everwhere they want to believe. You do not have to police them. lol
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:02 PM   #53
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Nice run but I would knocked some heads in when they were leaning on my car.

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Old 04-20-2012, 09:03 PM   #54
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Whats your oil psi at idle after dyno?
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Old 04-20-2012, 09:17 PM   #55
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Cool, can't wait to see you ZL1 tomorrow Alex...
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Old 04-21-2012, 09:58 AM   #56
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I got a new video of that day! That exhaust doing sound great!
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:55 AM   #57
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this same car put down 465 rwhp on our dyno dynamics dyno
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Old 04-23-2012, 12:04 PM   #58
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this same car put down 465 rwhp on our dyno dynamics dyno
How much drive train loss for a manual would you factor? I noticed stock SS cars lose about 50RWHP. Would 115RWHP loss seem excessive, or do you think the 580HP is over rated? Hopefully Ryne can shed some light on this.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:27 PM   #59
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It is not overrated at 580hp.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:36 PM   #60
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The number I keep seeing tossed around for manual drivetrain loss is 12%. That's freakin awesome, if you ask me.
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Old 04-23-2012, 01:49 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by Inferno LS3 View Post
How much drive train loss for a manual would you factor? I noticed stock SS cars lose about 50RWHP. Would 115RWHP loss seem excessive, or do you think the 580HP is over rated? Hopefully Ryne can shed some light on this.
There are mustang dynos, then there are dynojets. They record the power differently. A dynojet typically yields higher numbers than a mustang dyno because it is an inertia dyno and the only resistance is the 2500lb rollers, a mustang dyno is more accurate to what you'd put to the street because of there being more resistance and it actually measuring the force being put on the rollers.

Better explanation here from http://ls1tech.com/forums/11468376-post12.html :
Quote:
I have written pages and pages of posts on this topic on various forums. Here's a little write up I did a few weeks ago. . .

DynoJets are inertia dynos, and have been around for years, much longer than any type of load cell dyno. Inertia dyno's work on the principle of the acceleration of a known mass over time. Their rollers are the known mass. Weighing in at over 2500lbs or so. Your car gets strapped down to the machine, and the dyno collects it's data. It is able to calculate horsepower by measuring the acceleration in rpm of the rollers in regards to RPM. This is why gearing can affect the dyno results, more on that in a bit. Now that the dyno has recorded the horsepower curve, it can take the integral of that curve and get the torque curve. Since the dyno’s power calculations are based on the acceleration of mass over time in regards to RPM, gearing is very important. Since a vehicle with a lower gear ratio can accelerate the mass to a higher speed using less engine RPM, it will show a higher horsepower number than a car with a higher gear ratio. If a car is able to accelerate the dyno’s rollers from 200rpm (roller) to 300rpm (roller)in 1500rpm (engine), then the dyno is going to record more power than a car that did that in 2000rpm (engine).

Now we go to Mustang dyno’s and other loaded dyno’s. Our Mustang MD-1100SE dyno’s rollers weigh 2560lbs. That is the actual mass of the rollers, much like the DynoJet. That’s about where all the similarities end. When we get a car on our dyno, we enter two constants for the dyno’s algorithms. One being the vehicle weight, the other being what’s called “Horsepower At 50mph”. This is a number that represents how much horsepower it takes for the vehicle to push the air to maintain 50mph. This is used as the aerodynamic force. Mustang dyno’s are also equipped with a eddy currant load cell. Think of a magnetic brake from a freight train. This magnetic brake can apply enough resistance to stall a big rig. Off one side of the eddy currant load cell, there is a cantilever with a 5volt reference load sensor (strain gage). As the rollers are spinning this load sensor is measuring the actual torque being applied. So as the rollers spin, the load sensor is measuring the force being applied, sending that information to the dyno computer, taking into account the two constants entered earlier, computing the amount of resistance needed to be applied to the rollers to load the car so that the force of the rollers resistance is as close to the force the car sees on the street. The dyno is then able to calculate the total force being applied to the rollers in torque, and then taking the derivative of that torque curve to arrive at the horsepower curve. Since torque is an actual force of nature, like gravity and electricity, it can be directly measured. Horsepower is an idea that was thought up by man, and cannot be directly measured, only calculated.

I like to state it like this. . . I start by asking how much your car weighs, lets say 3500lbs. Now you take your car and you make a make a WOT rip in your tallest non overdrive gear, how much mass is your engine working against? 3500lbs right? Now you strap your car on a DynoJet and you make a WOT in the same gear, how much mass is your engine working against? 2500lbs right? Now you strap your car on a Mustang dyno, how much mass is your engine working against? 2500lbs. Plus the resistance being applied by the eddy current generator. We’ve seen anywhere for 470lbs of resistance to over 700lbs of resistance as measured in PAU force in the data logs. So which one is more accurate? Well they their both accurate. If a DynoJet dyno says you made 460rwhp, then you made 460rwhp. If a Mustang dyno says you made 460rwhp, you also made 460rwhp. Now which one of those numbers best represents what your car is doing when its on the street. That’s a different question.

The most important thing to remember is that a dyno is a testing tool. If the numbers keep increasing, then you’re doing the right thing. We try to look over at NET gain, instead of Peak HP numbers. A 30rwhp increase is a 30rwhp increase regardless of what dyno it is on.

Now I can address how to calculate the difference between one type of dyno and another. Simply put, you can’t. Because Mustang dyno’s have so many more variables, it’s not a simple percentage difference. We’ve had cars that made 422rwhp on our Dyno, two days later make 458rwhp on a DynoJet the next day. We’ve also had cars that made 550rwhp on our dyno, make 650+rwhp on a DynoJet a few days later at another shops Dyno Day. For instance, my 2002 Z28 with a forged internal LS6 Heads/Cam/Intake, makes 460rwhp on our dyno. I thought that was a little low, since I’ve had cam only LS6 Z06 vettes make 450rwhp. So I overlaid the dyno graphs. Guess what, the PAU force for my car was almost 200lbs more than the C5Z06 that made 450rwhp with cam only. So I entered the weight and horsepower at 50 number for a C5Z06 and did another horsepower rip with my car. The only reason I did that was to compare Apples to Apples. This time my car made 490rwhp, no other changes. Now I don’t go around saying my car made 490rwhp, I say what it actually did with the correct information entered into the computer. It made 460rwhp. Now if I ever get a chance to take it on a DynoJet (which I plan to in the spring), I have no doubts it’ll be over 500rwhp. I know this based on airflow and fuel consumption on the data logs.

But since we’re asked this question constantly we're fairly conservative, and hence tell our customers that the difference is closer to 6-7%, but as you make more power, and the more your car weighs, the difference increases as well. You must remember, Dyno's regardless of the type are tuning tools, and are in no means meant to tell people how fast their car is. Now which one is more "real world" is a totally different question. I like to explain it like this..... If you drive your car in a situation in which you have no mass and you're in a vacuum, so basically if you do intergalactic racing in space, use a DynoJet. If your car sees gravity, and has an aerodynamic coefficient, and you race on a planet called Earth, then use a Mustang Dyno
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Old 04-23-2012, 02:15 PM   #62
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The number I keep seeing tossed around for manual drivetrain loss is 12%. That's freakin awesome, if you ask me.
580HP @ 12% drive train loss is 510RWHP. I know their just dyno numbers. Best thing is a base line before mods, then a dyno result after mods.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:26 PM   #63
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my car would have been taken out of that shop as soon as I would have seen anyone leaning over my fendor(s) w/o any sort of protection.

that crap bugs the sh*t out of me.
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:35 PM   #64
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my car would have been taken out of that shop as soon as I would have seen anyone leaning over my fendor(s) w/o any sort of protection.

that crap bugs the sh*t out of me.
Umm, then what's up with the pic in your signature? I don't see any protection there. Wait a minute...what do you really mean by "taken out"???
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:36 PM   #65
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Umm, then what's up with the pic in your signature?
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Old 04-23-2012, 03:37 PM   #66
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She's probably got a nice coat of oil on the stomach area for easy gliding over the paint..
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Old 04-23-2012, 04:37 PM   #67
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She's probably got a nice coat of oil on the stomach area for easy gliding over the paint..
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Old 04-23-2012, 06:57 PM   #68
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Umm, then what's up with the pic in your signature? I don't see any protection there. Wait a minute...what do you really mean by "taken out"???
Can you imagine the finger prints she left on the hood. Just terrible. Thank goodness this guy saved us from having to ask anymore dyno questions , don't want to upset the inferno.
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Old 04-23-2012, 08:23 PM   #69
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Well since this was moved to where everyone will give their opinion, let me ask all of you a question. What does every one think are the answers to all the questions?
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Old 04-23-2012, 09:01 PM   #70
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Umm, then what's up with the pic in your signature? I don't see any protection there. Wait a minute...what do you really mean by "taken out"???
A: this was a photo shoot arranged by me. meaning I was in charge and I'm the one who told her how to pose with my car.

B: as you can see, Sam (the girl's name) didn't have much on below meaning I wasn't worried about any scratches unlike those clowns in the videos that were hanging all over the ZL1's fenders and such.

C: revert back to part A if necessary.
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Old 04-24-2012, 01:58 AM   #71
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my car would have been taken out of that shop as soon as I would have seen anyone leaning over my fendor(s) w/o any sort of protection.

that crap bugs the sh*t out of me.
is your car a show car or do you drive it?

Quote:
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Umm, then what's up with the pic in your signature? I don't see any protection there. Wait a minute...what do you really mean by "taken out"???
LOL

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A: this was a photo shoot arranged by me. meaning I was in charge and I'm the one who told her how to pose with my car.

B: as you can see, Sam (the girl's name) didn't have much on below meaning I wasn't worried about any scratches unlike those clowns in the videos that were hanging all over the ZL1's fenders and such.

C: revert back to part A if necessary.
I hope you checked her for belly button rings. And since she wasn't wearing much below, I hope she shaved and didn't scratch it up with any scruff either. You never know with those girls. I'd rather the guys lean on my car than let a girl (other than myself) touch it. At least guys can respect them. And I've never seen ANYTHING come out of Haddad's shop with a scratch on it, regardless of *GASP* leaning. Also... I hope everyone realizes the owner of the CAR could have at ANY TIME said to back off.

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Old 04-24-2012, 08:11 AM   #72
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A: this was a photo shoot arranged by me. meaning I was in charge and I'm the one who told her how to pose with my car.

B: as you can see, Sam (the girl's name) didn't have much on below meaning I wasn't worried about any scratches unlike those clowns in the videos that were hanging all over the ZL1's fenders and such.

C: revert back to part A if necessary.
A: Sorry, it was just meant as a little humor.

B: Can you hook me up with her number?

C: Request part B again.
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Old 04-24-2012, 09:54 AM   #73
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A: Sorry, it was just meant as a little humor.

B: Can you hook me up with her number?

C: Request part B again.


BTW I inspected my car and there is not a single scratch to be seen.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:46 AM   #74
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A: Sorry, it was just meant as a little humor.
it's all good.
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Old 04-24-2012, 10:54 AM   #75
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BTW I inspected my car and there is not a single scratch to be seen.
Nah Alex, they are right. Mike should've put some things on the car as they do when working on cars. The only down side to all this is the way the Camaro5 community, likes to talk sh!t, bash, put down, ask skeptical question. That's why I would've never put this video up in the national ZL1 section.
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